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Ridemonkey

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Sep 18, 2002
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blue said:
Or perhaps cutting through the stupid posturing by the Mac lovers and the Mac haters is too much for you?

It's fact that Apples and the rest of the PC world are on a level playing field technically. So why do you like them so much?

But wait, Fraser has defaulted to being an asshat to anyone who remotely questions the reasoning behind his posts.

Typical.
Through out all these conversations you'll find a common thread. Mac users like macs because it what works best for them. PC zealots can't be satisfied letting Mac users have a preference, and feel they need to find ways to try make Mac users feel bad about their choice.

You will never see someone attacked by a Mac user for preferring PCs though...why? We can respect "choice". It's a concept you PC freaks don't seem to understand.

If you want to know why we like them so much read the damn thread.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
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Orange County, CA
blue said:
It's fact that Apples and the rest of the PC world are on a level playing field technically. So why do you like them so much?
The software.

Macs have in the last 10 years been behind PCs from a brute force standpoint. Now they are caught up.

My next computer is going to be a Mac. I'm at the point where I want to plug the goddamned thing in and have it go. The days where I thought it was fun to fiddle with putting the machine together and then getting it running just the way I like it over the course of a week are long gone.

By the way, Dell wants $820 for the same RAM upgrade that Apple wants. Call it the stupid tax for people who can't install RAM or unzip their pants...but it looks like Apple is the only one that bends you over for it.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
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california
But if the software/OS can run on a PC...

I'm tempted to pickup a bigger HDD to run a dual boot machine with OSX, as I like it. A lot.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
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Towing the party line.
Those of us who make our livings working on computers all day (which is a huge part of the apple userbase) do not have the option of stealing software and breaking EULAs.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
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california
Transcend said:
Those of us who make our livings working on computers all day (which is a huge part of the apple userbase) do not have the option of stealing software and breaking EULAs.
Does the EULA specifically state you have to run your copy of OSX on an Apple machine? I'd think it did, but jw.

So, you're saying Apple has coralled a portion of the market with ****ty EULAs and proprietary policies...smells like Sony/MS.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
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Towing the party line.
blue said:
Does the EULA specifically state you have to run your copy of OSX on an Apple machine? I'd think it did, but jw.

So, you're saying Apple has coralled a portion of the market with ****ty EULAs and proprietary policies...smells like Sony/MS.
Apple has ALWAYS had it's software run only on specific machines. This is how they achienved their near legendary stability. They can easily test every configuration of machine you can buy and make sure the OS and their pro apps are rock solid on it. MS cannot do this as you could potentially use one of a zillion Mobos or processors or vid cards. This is what leads to windows ****ting the bed 3/4 of the time. The drivers suck, or the dlls for one thing conflict with another etc etc.

When Gil Amelio left in 1997 and Jobs took over, he killed the clone industry as well as the precursor to os x (Rhapsody) that would run on both PC and mac hardware. The clone industry was absolutely DESTROYING their profits. That was the end of mac os running on any hardware you coudl install it on.

Apple is now using EFI and trusted computing (TPM) chips to make sure that you run their software only on their approved machines. This is why you have to crack it to run on standard x86 hardware. The EULA just reinforces this and states that is must only be used on apple approved hardware.

They sell the OS for $130, MS sells the os for about $400 (both retail and pro MS version as apple has no crippled version). They clearly make their 25% margin off of the hardware. This is their business model and it works quite well for them.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Ridemonkey said:
Yes, it was about the Mac Pro for about one post until it was turned into another "Apples are over-priced thread", and that's been a part of the discussion since.
It was about Apple's Mac Pro product mix choice for the target market, the pricing is competitive now other than the upgrade fees (which Transcend acknowledged were ludicrous). The only thing that was fishy at the show was comparing a Dell with a higher spec Intel workstation motherboard and nvidia workstation videocard to the Mac Pro with the entry level $80 nvidia consumer videocard.

Ridemonkey said:
You're mixing the requirements of single professionals with that of larger companies. Does it make sense for a large company to adopt new, relatively untested technology in great volume? Of course not.

However, an individual professional(Transcend) can adopt that same technology at a much lesser risk because it need only work for him and his workflow...not that of a whole organization.

I will reiterate my central point here so it's not overlooked: You can not compare what is good for big business to what is good for individual professionals. The negative aspects of early adoption have far less impact on individuals than they would on a large company, while the positive aspects remain the same.
On the contrary - with an individual professional a single expensive point of failure means sink or swim if it dies and you are out of action for a few weeks due to expensive special order parts or limited data recovery requirements. Even with mature Apple products, people almost always buy the extended Applecare warranties with their machines.

Large companies might buy a few samples of the new product early to have some users test out the new product until its mature enough to go into production for the whole company.

Apple has a notorious history for first and even sometimes second generation hardware launches. For professional users, their primary third party application productivity is much more important than a new revision of an OS or a speed bump that doesn't give much benefit for their unported or non-optimized app (which will change as the product becomes mature enough for professional use). Also they might have expensive hardware which isn't yet supported under the new environment - they can't afford an upgrade that also requires them to buy other new hardware.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
Transcend said:
They sell the OS for $130, MS sells the os for about $400 (both retail and pro MS version as apple has no crippled version). They clearly make their 25% margin off of the hardware. This is their business model and it works quite well for them.
i'd bet the majority of their revenue and profit growth was fueled by the iPod, and not iBooks or G4/5 machines. now that that field is getting increasingly cluttered, and the RIAA labels grousing about iTunes, they'd probably better think out their next strategy.

if any existing officers can outlast the stock option backdating scandal.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Silver said:
You missed the part about me wanting to just plug in the power and have it work, right?
Which is a fairy tale in reality. Its a computer and they don't always work right.

Dave Weagle engineer and cofounder evil bikes/e13 components on his wife's Mac, it just works, eh:

dw said:
Mac's suck balls. When will they go away? All I know is that the titanium laptop I bought for my wife was/is a huge turd waste of my money.
 

Ridemonkey

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syadasti said:
Which is a fairy tale in reality. Its a computer and they don't always work right.

Dave Weagle engineer and cofounder evil bikes/e13 components on his wife's Mac, it just works, eh:
You dismiss our anecdotal evidence, then use some else's to support your stance...classic.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Ridemonkey said:
You dismiss our anecdotal evidence, then use some else's to support your stance...classic.
No I've used hundreds of different individual Macs and spent thousands of hours using Macs personally over the years. I've also used thousands of different individual PCs and Sun computers.

Nobody seemed to care, so it was an example that came to mind.

A mac is just another kind of computer and it doesn't always work in various situations. That is the reality.
 

Ridemonkey

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syadasti said:
No I've used hundreds of different individual Macs and spent thousands of hours using Macs personally over the years. I've also used thousands of different individual PCs and Sun computers.

Nobody seemed to care, so it was an example that came to mind.

A mac is just another kinda of computer and it doesn't always work in various situations. That is the reality.
Yeah...I'm not terribly interested in your personal experience, since you've demonstrated quite aptly that objectivity is beyond your capacity.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
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Orange County, CA
syadasti said:
Which is a fairy tale in reality. Its a computer and they don't always work right.

Dave Weagle engineer and cofounder evil bikes/e13 components on his wife's Mac, it just works, eh:
And in reality a Honda is going to be a more reliable car than a Pontiac.

However, there are people who get great Pontiacs and lemon Hondas. Imagine that...

Did Steve Jobs rape your sister or something? You must be a ton of fun to be with when an Apple commerical comes up in rotation on television.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Ridemonkey said:
Yeah...I'm not terribly interested in your personal experience, since you've demonstrated quite aptly that objectivity is beyond your capacity.
Apple products have problems just like any other computer maker does - hardware and software. Why are there Apple specific technical support organizations? Why do they have support staff for companies that use Apple. Or a Apple's very extensive knowledge base and support site:

http://www.apple.com/support/

Thats right, its a computer and it doesn't always work. Thats reality. Its not a magic box, its a computer - get real.
 

Ridemonkey

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Sep 18, 2002
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Toronto, Canada
syadasti said:
Apple products have problems just like any other computer maker does - hardware and software. Why are there Apple specific technical support organizations? Why do they have support staff for companies that use Apple. Or a Apple's very extensive knowledge base and support site:

http://www.apple.com/support/

Thats right, its a computer and it doesn't always work. Thats reality. Its not a magic box, its a computer - get real.
When did I ever say that they never ever break? In fact...I said that mine had a hard drive failure. Silver just summed things up nicely.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
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Towing the party line.
syadasti said:
Which is a fairy tale in reality. Its a computer and they don't always work right.
"Always" isn't the key. Th eonly certain things in life are death and taxes.

The fact that they work much more often than their pc competition is, however, the key. I plug it in, it works. Much as I will be doing with my pro when it arrives.

edit: and how the hell is that an invalid comparison? It's a perfectly valid one, you just don't like how it accurately reflects the state of things. Yes, your windows boxes are busted ass, gas guzzling, pontiacs. :D
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
This is a terrible thread :rolleyes:

I'm embarassed to have started the discussion. In my defense, I was only trying to suggest that Apple could expand their market share by offering some pricing options, not start yet another flamefest on Macs vs. PCs.

Maybe I should just start locking any Mac-related thread immediately after posting :p
 

Ridemonkey

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Sep 18, 2002
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Toronto, Canada
binary visions said:
This is a terrible thread :rolleyes:

I'm embarassed to have started the discussion. In my defense, I was only trying to suggest that Apple could expand their market share by offering some pricing options, not start yet another flamefest on Macs vs. PCs.

Maybe I should just start locking any Mac-related thread immediately after posting :p
Your position was completely legitimate, it was our resident close-minded PC nazi that saw it as an opportunity to ramble on about his PC agenda (hehe).
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,653
402
NC
Okay, let's just let this eyesore sink to the bottom, shall we?

Enjoy your new Mac Pro, Transcend... It'd be awesome if you tossed up a few pictures when you get it. Especially if you pull it apart to add some RAM :thumb:
 
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