[dump]

A 90 day warranty is CRAP! I'm not feeling that at all.

 

[syadasti]

You're confusing quantity with quality. For real world usability, I would go with the Mac hands down. Anyhow, for Apple's first shot at an Intel laptop, this is a hell of a machine.

The only one confused is yourself, step out of the RDF.

Having slower less capable intel notebook with a $500 higher price tag isn't higher quality - same CPU, same MB chipset, same video chipset, etc. How much clearer does it have to get until you realize Apple is mostly marketing?

"Stylish," "full-featured," and "cutting-edge technology" are just a few of the phrases that come to mind when looking over the Acer TravelMate 8204WLMi. Thanks to a carbon-fiber chassis, an awesome webcam, new ATI graphics, and dual-core processing from Intel—all in a system that weighs less than 7 pounds—it well deserves our Editors' Choice award.

The new TravelMate 8204WLMi takes notebook technology to the next level with Intel's new Napa platform. Although it may not be priced as aggressively as other Acer notebooks, you're getting a whole bundle of cutting-edge technology wrapped up in a great looking chassis. Expect to see masses of new notebooks based on the Napa platform over the coming months, but Acer's competitors will have to work hard to come up with a better model than this one.

 

[syadasti]

A 90 day warranty is CRAP! I'm not feeling that at all.

No its 90 days of phone support, 1 year limited warranty on Apple products...

 

[Toshi]

software availability is kind of an issue. i want native versions of aperture, final cut express, photoshop, and office, but will have to wait for them. hmm. maybe this will be when i switch to iWork for good from office...

dump, the warranty is 1 year. 90 days is for telephone support. you can always extend the warranty with applecare -- i'm going to do that for sure, as it's a 1st gen product in many ways.

 

[dump]

No its 90 days of phone support, 1 year limited warranty on Apple products...

gotcha. Can you buy an extended warranty as well?

 

[dump]

software availability is kind of an issue. i want native versions of aperture, final cut express, photoshop, and office, but will have to wait for them. hmm. maybe this will be when i switch to iWork for good from office...

dump, the warranty is 1 year. 90 days is for telephone support. you can always extend the warranty with applecare -- i'm going to do that for sure, as it's a 1st gen product in many ways.

Yup, all laptops need them. Only way to not get hosed on repair costs.

 

[Transcend]

software availability is kind of an issue. i want native versions of aperture, final cut express, photoshop, and office, but will have to wait for them. hmm. maybe this will be when i switch to iWork for good from office...

dump, the warranty is 1 year. 90 days is for telephone support. you can always extend the warranty with applecare -- i'm going to do that for sure, as it's a 1st gen product in many ways.

The new aps will be available by the time the new hardware ships in a month. Also, don't waste your time with aperture! Wow, what a dissapointment that was...

-Quantity does not euqal quality.
-Any win box i have assembled needs about an hour of patching + service packs to make it stable/useable. Also, more often then not, they break something else.

Apple is mostly marketing huh? Funny, I get my work done faster and more efficiently on it, and I don't have to fix it every 3 days. Yup, love me some marketing.

dump 1 yr warranty, 90 day phone. Applecare for 3 years is $300.

 

[syadasti]

gotcha. Can you buy an extended warranty as well?

Applecare - 3 years $350 on those notebooks...

I didn't buy Applecare for my mini, its not worth it on a desktop type application.

 

[syadasti]

The new aps will be available by the time the new hardware ships ona month.

-Quantity does not euqal quality.
-Any win box i have assembled needs about an hour of patching + service packs to make it stable/useable. Also, more often then not, they break something else.

The notebook isn't just quantity, its rated as high quality and has usable important featureset difference.

Any OSX box (even today) needs at least 120MB of patching not including itunes and quicktime. Sometimes mac patches do much more horrible things to their machines than just breaking an application temorarily, they've corrupted data, caused hardware compatability issues with memory, etc...

You obviously have only supported PCs as Mac have the same issues (or worse as I've never patched a PC and corrupted data or made the hardware incompatible, have you?)

My parents bought a $600 emachine desktop, I've never had to fix it for them and they've had it over a year. I have had to visit to fix the router, but thats not a platform specific issue. Windows hasn't been crap since they abandoned the Win9X kernel and went to all user NT-basis with Win2K.

I don't do any more work supporting my PCs than my Macs. Matter of fact I had to use more user less friendly freeware hacks to get my mini to do what I want it to do...

 

[Ciaran]

The new aps will be available by the time the new hardware ships ona month.

-Quantity does not euqal quality.
-Any win box i have assembled needs about an hour of patching + service packs to make it stable/useable. Also, more often then not, they break something else.

Apple is mostly marketing huh? Funny, I get my work done faster and more efficiently on it, and I don't have to fix it every 3 days. Yup, love me some marketing.

dump 1 yr warranty, 90 day phone. Applecare for 3 years is $300.

Thoughts...

It's all just personal preference. They're both computers. They both do about the same thing, just in different ways.

I can set up a windows box to be extremely stable. I have machines that haven't had a reboot in MONTHS that work fine. PC's don't break every three days unless they were not set up correctly to begin with.

I have had 2 viruses in my whole computer life. - If the mac presence on the web was equal to that of PCs you would see macs with a ton of viruses. They are not invulnerable, virus writers just don't write viruses for them because it's not worth it.

I've never built a Mac so I don't know how many patches and such it needs but if the post a few above is correct it sounds like they need just as much work as a PC.

Apple isn't ALL marketing, but you have to admit that it has been marketed alot, and has been marketed as a lifestyle and an image.

Just my thoughts, your milage may vary.

 

[kinghami3]

The only one confused is yourself, step out of the RDF.

Having slower less capable intel notebook with a $500 higher price tag isn't higher quality - same CPU, same MB chipset, same video chipset, etc. How much clearer does it have to get until you realize Apple is mostly marketing?

Don't kid me. I've used every Mac OS since OS 6 and every version of Windows since DOS, both on a regular basis. The reason I chose a Mac to use at school was because I knew it would last all four years. 3 years later it's going as strong as the day I bought it with no sign of quitting for many years to come. The plan now is to get a Mac laptop (whatever the iBook will become) to get me through 6+ more years of post grad schooling and give the eMac to the parents.

 

[escapeartist]

Do you still miss your floppy drive too?

Ooooohhh. BURN.

 

[syadasti]

Don't kid me. I've used every Mac OS since OS 6 and every version of Windows since DOS, both on a regular basis. The reason I chose a Mac to use at school was because I knew it would last all four years. 3 years later it's going as strong as the day I bought it with no sign of quitting for many years to come. The plan now is to get a Mac laptop (whatever the iBook will become) to get me through 6+ more years of post grad schooling and give the eMac to the parents.

Don't kid me kid, I've owned or used Apple since the IIc/IIe. I've been a system administrator at two different companies that handle multibillions in money management - none of them would remotely consider a switch to a toy like a Mac desktop/laptop or their low-end servers (BTW 3-5 year old desktop PC are not uncommon though I replace them cause we get a huge return on investment with the new features and more productive users). The only place I have to support macs is at the company owners homes FOR THEIR KIDS. Only 3-6 percent use macs for a reason they aren't capable enough and advantages don't outweight the disadvantages...

 

[Transcend]

Ya, sure thing pal. the entire design, photography and print industry must love their dang toys!

Also, I have supported every win iteration since nt4/95, linux as well as macs since system 7.

Do they all need patching, of course.
Have i had patches blow things up? Yup, on both systems.
Do i need to reinstall my os every 6 months? Man - no, Win - yes. Have I ever had viruses on either system? No, because I am not a moron.

Face it, they work just as well, only macos is far more elegant/user friendly. They do color management / pre-flight work better and for anyone but an accountant or research scientist, are probably a better choice.

 

[kinghami3]

Don't kid me kid, I've owned or used Apple since the IIc/IIe. I've been a system administrator at two different companies that handle multibillions in money management - none of them would remotely consider a switch to a toy like a Mac desktop/laptop or their low-end servers. The only place I have to support macs is at the company owners homes FOR THEIR KIDS. Only 3-6 percent use macs for a reason they aren't capable enough and advantage don't outweight the disadvantages...

a.)Don't call me kid, EVER. I don't care how old you are.
b.)I hate to go back to Virginia Tech, but the Mac is not a Toy OS. It's a *NIX box with a user friendly interface, and just as powerful as any Windows machine. I've never set up a Mac network, but I've used them and I know they are more than capable. It doesn't help that the Windows network I was on for work went down once a week on average.

 

[Transcend]

a.)Don't call me kid, EVER. I don't care how old you are.
b.)I hate to go back to Virginia Tech, but the Mac is not a Toy OS. It's a *NIX box with a user friendly interface, and just as powerful as any Windows machine. I've never set up a Mac network, but I've used them and I know they are more than capable. It doesn't help that the Windows network I was on for work went down once a week on average.

FYI - my mac connected to my windows network easier then my win boxes did. It also automatically set up samba shares - in both directions.

 

[syadasti]

a.)Don't call me kid, EVER. I don't care how old you are.
b.)I hate to go back to Virginia Tech, but the Mac is not a Toy OS. It's a *NIX box with a user friendly interface, and just as powerful as any Windows machine. I've never set up a Mac network, but I've used them and I know they are more than capable. It doesn't help that the Windows network I was on for work went down once a week on average.

I didn't say the OS was a toy, I said the desktop/notebooks/servers were (OSX on technical merits is better than Windows currently, but technical merits alone do not make one complete computing platform more useful/productive than the other). They weren't as powerful as any windows machine considering how slow the G5 is and how Apple is switching to Intel now. You've never setup a network, so you have no authority on the matter whatsoever...

 

[syadasti]

FYI - my mac connected to my windows network easier then my win boxes did. It also automatically set up samba shares - in both directions.

Well thats not what my experience is. Here is the story I wrote to my mac pal the first time I had to fix the owner's home computers:

Boss has a bunch of PCs and Macs at his home I also have to support. Upgraded the wireless router to a better one, installed a external HDD with card reader/retrospect software, installed another UPS, made sure window security center/norton was autoupdating (it was), fixed a dead iMac G5 (safe mode, permissions, cache, single user, etc fixes...did not work-ended up reinstalling Tiger keeping the system files and it worked without data loss), and worked on getting iChat to work through firewall. What took longest - the Mac work - especially getting iChat to work through the firewall - had to open a whole bunch of ports and was not really possible on new linksys (Cisco owned) consumer router - had to forward all the ports as Apple recommended as last ditch method and that only works with one IP on the network (and defeats the router firewall protection for the mac), so its a good thing its only for one computer right now. Yahoo, MSN, AIM chat/webcam clients don't have any of these firewall issues, just Apple's ****

Out of the box I had more product updates to download and install via the OSX "Software Update" for this brand new Tiger OSX Mac than a new XPSP2 PC and maybe even one that doesn't have SP2 installed. There must have been at least 2 dozen updates - I had to run it 2-3 times and rebooted 2-3 times and must have downloaded at least 200MB of updates - its a good thing we have broadband these days...

I got the iMac on his network to print to the windows printer by guessing the beta gimp drivers (was not simple as downloading the right driver from a website) - was much easier to connect to a PC shared printer on a PC (a PC automatically grabs/installs the drivers from the other PC) plus the beta driver do not support all native print functions. Getting connected to an OSX printer to share was not user friendly - had to login though CUPS (Unix software built into OSX) and setup the printer as a RAW printer in addition to the automatic OSX listing in CUPS. Doing it this way supports all features of the native print driver but is much slower as the RAW format takes more bandwidth. Also the HP mac print driver/program doesn't uninstall simply by drag the app in the trash (as advertised for uninstall mac programs), there were other hidden files it left on the computer I had to delete by myself - easier to uninstall with uninstall ap on the PC (less crap is left around).

I've had Opera for the Mac freeze up on me a few times and some of the functionality isn't quite as good as PC version (my fav browser). Safari has crashed once already.

After this experience I can definately say the user-friendly hype is total bull****. The OS is great and the security is excellent - its pretty similiar to other *nix I've used only easier to use. I need a better mouse - this one button **** sucks.

 

[Transcend]

Well thats not what my experience is. Here is the story I wrote to my mac pal the first time I had to fix the owner's home computers:

Congratulations, that is the user experience most PC users have.

 

[syadasti]

Congratulations, that is the user experience most PC users have.

The mac support was not more user friendly, its lost its edge for technical prowess. My boss (and his family) was not capable of fixing EITHER platform...

 

[jimmydean]

As a Linux user, I love the Mac OS since OSX. I have to deal with Windows machine at work sometimes and it's a nightmare.

I am a Software Quality Assurance Engineer and use Linux rather than Windows for personal preference. Thanks to Windows, my job is never done. Windows is a steaming pile and requires more resources and more support than either OSX or Linux. OSX has more stability and flexability than even the nicest Windows box because of the open source based platform.

I look forward to installing a Mac Mini in my truck this summer and my next laptop will be a Mac for sure.

I was at Intel when the news of supporting Apple came out. The main reason Intel was excited about it was the idea of supporting a better OS. Intel also loves supporting Linux because of how well it makes the hardware look as far as speed and reliability.

 

[syadasti]

As a Linux user, I love the Mac OS since OSX. I have to deal with Windows machine at work sometimes and it's a nightmare.

I am a Software Quality Assurance Engineer and use Linux rather than Windows for personal preference. Thanks to Windows, my job is never done. Windows is a steaming pile and requires more resources and more support than either OSX or Linux. OSX has more stability and flexability than even the nicest Windows box because of the open source based platform.

I look forward to installing a Mac Mini in my truck this summer and my next laptop will be a Mac for sure.

I was at Intel when the news of supporting Apple came out. The main reason Intel was excited about it was the idea of supporting a better OS. Intel also loves supporting Linux because of how well it makes the hardware look as far as speed and reliability.

I agree with you on OSX - I've never claimed OSX isn't technically superior. I bought a mac mini right?

Of course I had to upgrade it immediately so it was somewhat acceptable in performance - 1GB ram and 2.5" Enterprise Blade 7200RPM 8MB HDD. Upgrading the hardware was extremely user unfriendly (and Apple says its "user" servicable). You need two paint scrappers, jeweler's screwdrivers, and a good memory of what goes where after you take it apart.

You obviously know their old hardware was overpriced and underperforming - they switched to Intel

 

[Toshi]

 

[syadasti]

Hope you didn't buy that via the Apple store - you could save a fair bit if you buy it from Macmall (free memory upgrades, etc), aftermarket memory upgrades from crucial or other (its a snap to upgrade the memory in notebooks on your own), and Applecare/DVDR media can be had pretty discounted from Apple's prices at resellers...

 

[Transcend]

Dont buy memory from apple - they upcharge, even fwhen compared to crucial. Last I check they were 10-15% higher. They do, however ,credit you for your 512 that they take out. That way you dont get stuck with a useless 512mb stik sittin round.

You'll be able to dual boot that with vista one it comes out as well, which is kinda cool. It'll be nice not to have to use VPC to test webpages in IE.

 

[syadasti]

More news from Macworld (you know one of the reasons for the Apple Intel switch was the strong Intel DRM platform)

iTunes "Phone Home" Feature Part of Dangerous Data Collection Trend

This week at MacWorld, Apple unveiled version 6.0.2 of iTunes, which it simply claimed "includes stability and performance improvements over iTunes 6.0.1." Among these so-called improvements is the Apple iTunes MiniStore--a localized "recommendation" engine that would look at what you listen to and then suggest additional songs and artists you might like. The MiniStore arrives turned on by default without asking a user's permission first.

However, as news reports have revealed this week, it appears that the MiniStore also automatically transmits your listening information over the Internet back to the Apple Mothership. What Apple does with this information is unknown, although Apple has represented that it is not collecting data on its users--yet. Nor has Apple disclosed the steps it takes to prevent disclosure or leakage of the information to third parties.

Ironically, this news comes on the heels of the recent Sony BMG DRM fiasco, a part of which included an undisclosed "phone home" feature of its own. While the Apple MiniStore isn't a rootkit DRM, it is part of a dangerous trend EFF has been witnessing in the digital music space market. When companies like Apple and Sony BMG start adjusting or installing software to micro-monitor our personal and private actions, even under the rubric of convenience, it is just one short stop down the road toward attempting to condition and control our behavior. All it takes is an enforcement protocol to turn recommendations into restrictions overnight.

If companies like Apple are truly about user empowerment, they must watch this trend closely and remain on the right side of it. Allowing users to upload information voluntarily and expressly with adequate privacy protections is pro-user; surreptitiously siphoning it into a remote database without any privacy guarantees is not. It's time for Apple to pick a side of the line and walk it.

Note: You can turn off the Apple MiniStore by hitting Shift-Command-M, or choose Edit: Hide MiniStore. EFF recommends that iTunes users do so until Apple at least comes clean about its MiniStore data practices.

 

[Toshi]

Hope you didn't buy that via the Apple store - you could save a fair bit if you buy it from Macmall

i'm an edu customer, so macmall wouldn't actually save me money, even with all the hassle of their rebates, installation fees, and other garbage. plus i think the apple store will ship first. plus you'll note that my machine is bto: 7200 rpm hdd, the memory, and iwork '06 (native!) installed.

fraser, this setup won't have a useless 512 stick: the high end model comes with a single 1 gb stick stock, and the upgrade simply adds another 1 gb stick in the other slot.

 

[syadasti]

You'll be able to dual boot that with vista one it comes out as well, which is kinda cool. It'll be nice not to have to use VPC to test webpages in IE.

Or it will probably boot XP too...

The mystery deepens. Despite protestations on Apple's part that the company's new Intel-based iMac and MacBookPro wouldn't be able to boot Windows XP, reports are starting to trickle in that the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) boot manager can launch XP after all. No less an authority on EFI than Intel has commented (through its Australian office) that motherboards using the Intel 945 chipset (which is assumed -- though not confirmed -- to be the set used in the new Macs) support EFI and can boot XP. Intel's EFI documentation also says that a "Compatibility Support Module" will allow EFI to boot OSes that aren't directly supported by the boot manager. Given that Apple has said it won't directly stop Windows from running on Intel Macs, it seems at least feasible that a Compatibility Support Module is available. Of course, all this rampant speculation can be solved pretty quickly soon enough once the Intel Macs start shipping and users simply stick their XP install discs into the CD slot. That's when the real fun begins.

 

[syadasti]

i'm an edu customer

Ah so I guess thats why you said $300 for the Applecare, standard pricing is $350

Edit - FuturePowerPC has the Applecare G4/G5/MacBook M8853LLA for $265 with shipping - can edu discount match that? They are usually the cheapest legit Applecare reseller...

 

[Toshi]

i didn't say 300 for the apple care, i think fraser did. my applecare price was 239 anyway.

 

[Transcend]

Or it will probably boot XP too...

Toshi - good to hear, I havent really check out the specs, seeing as I just got my new powerbook in september. Just grab an extra stick from crucial later on.

Sya - Applecare is $250 / $300 for edu, that's how I got mine as well. Saved me about $400 all told I think.

If it can boot Xp, alot of people will be happy campers. I know plenty of win users who would like mac laptops due to the size/weight/look, and now they can have it.

I am sure one of Apple's reasons for the intel switch was just this, they can sell more hardware.

After all, they sell their OS for $149 - windows is what now...$400 for win xp pro? Clearly they need to push hardware sales.

The high end acer you shower is still 1lb heavier then my powerbook - after travelling around europe for a month with an inspiron 8200, I vowed to never have a heavy laptop again. When you find a pc lappy in the same power/performance range, and same form factory (the T43 etc), they are about the same price.

 

[Transcend]

BTW anyone have links for a good place to pickup a 20" cinema display? My edu price is about $900Cnd.

 

[Ciaran]

If it can boot Xp, alot of people will be happy campers. I know plenty of win users who would like mac laptops due to the size/weight/look, and now they can have it.



After all, they sell their OS for $149 - windows is what now...$400 for win xp pro? Clearly they need to push hardware sales.

The high end acer you shower is still 1lb heavier then my powerbook - after travelling around europe for a month with an inspiron 8200, I vowed to never have a heavy laptop again. When you find a pc lappy in the same power/performance range, and same form factory (the T43 etc), they are about the same price.

-Very good point. The apple laptops and monitors are waaaay sexy.

- Nah, you can pick up a full retail boxed version for 250.00 if you look around. You can find an OEM version for about a 150.00 if you look. Full retail price is about 300.00. Still double the 149.00 Mac OS though. But then how often does someone buy a full boxed retail version of Windows? Not very often I would imagine as most people buy their PC's with it installed already.

- 3 weeks of lugging around my regular sized laptop in Ireland had me whishing for a nice little 12 inch screen laptop. For me lightweight is important in a laptop.

 

[syadasti]

If it can boot Xp, alot of people will be happy campers. I know plenty of win users who would like mac laptops due to the size/weight/look, and now they can have it.

I am sure one of Apple's reasons for the intel switch was just this, they can sell more hardware.

I might consider them, but not until at least the 2nd release, the PPC platforms usually had notable issues in the 1st release. Though its probably not the case with an Mactel.

After all, they sell their OS for $149 - windows is what now...$400 for win xp pro? Clearly they need to push hardware sales.

Average Joe Blow would not know about the Pro or OEM versions, so they'd buy XP Home at Best Buy for $200, not $400. Professional users would probably know about OEM version and things like froogle and pricegrabber:

Windows XP Home OEM goes for $90
WinXP Pro OEM goes for $140
WinXP Mediacenter OEM goes for $130
OSX Tiger Single License goes for $110

All you have to do is buy it with some hardware to qualify for those prices (like a new Mactel for the OEM edition OS...)

Windows Vista should be about the same price as XP.

The high end acer you shower is still 1lb heavier then my powerbook - after travelling around europe for a month with an inspiron 8200, I vowed to never have a heavy laptop again. When you find a pc lappy in the same power/performance range, and same form factory (the T43 etc), they are about the same price.

Well I have the Acer 8100 (about the same weight as 8200), and that much weight isn't that bad. Also there was an HP (nc8230) that came out shortly afterwards that was 5.8 lbs and priced about the same, so I assume the core dual HP equal of the nc8230 will be around $500 cheaper too...

 

[Transcend]

I might consider them, but not until at least the 2nd release, the PPC platforms usually had notable issues in the 1st release. Though its probably not the case with an Mactel.



Average Joe Blow would not know about the Pro or OEM versions, so they'd buy XP Home at Best Buy for $150, not $400. Professional users would probably know about OEM version and things like froogle and pricegrabber:

Windows XP Home OEM goes for $90
WinXP Pro OEM goes for $140
WinXP Mediacenter OEM goes for $130
OSX Tiger Single License goes for $110

All you have to do is buy it with some hardware to qualify for those prices (like a new Mactel for the OEM edition OS...)

Windows Vista should be about the same price as XP.



Well I have the Acer 8100 (about the same weight as 8200), and that much weight isn't that bad. Also there was an HP (nc8230) that came out shortly afterwards that was 5.8 lbs and priced about the same, so I assume the core dual HP equal of the nc8230 will be around $500 cheaper too...

I have offers on my lappy that would only lose me about $250, but I am also waiting. There will undoubtedly be bugs, as well as delays in software shipping. I am hoing that a full selection of models will be out in Sept or so, when I will be upgrading.

The price on widows is sorta irrelevant, point being winxp pro costs a signifigant amount more then OS X at retail, so apple isn't exactly making a fortune off of it's software.

As for the weight issue - I was pulling a full size roller suitcase, had a lowepro phototrekker pro backpack (read 50+ pounds full of camera gear) as well as carrying a laptop bag. The extra pound (or 4 in the case of my inspiron) on my shoulder was incredibly noticeable walking around airports. It was heinous.

 

[syadasti]

BTW anyone have links for a good place to pickup a 20" cinema display? My edu price is about $900Cnd.

Buy a Dell FPW2005, it has the same exact LCD panel as the Cinema Display 20", even my mac photostudio owning chum got a Dell FPW2405 instead of the Cinema 24"

The 2005FPW go for $463 USD right now with shipping (maybe edu pricing is less?), but usually they run a 15-25% off coupon at times.

Dell just came out with a new 30" LCD (not the same LCD Panel as the Cinema 30, its an improved panel) and are rumored to be updating their other LCDs soon, so they should drop in price even more...

In 2008, maybe 2010, I think LCD/PDP/DLP displays will start to go out of style, Canon/Toshiba had working SEDs at CES which already surpass LCD/PDP in many ways.

SED/FEDs (surface-conduction electron-emitter display/field emission display) are where its at - flat panel CRTs without the scanning gun/huge depth - individual addressable emitters. Everyone at CES who saw them said it was the future. 55" version arriving at the end of this year.

1ms response time
100000:1 contrast ratio
40% Lower power consumption than LCDs of the same size
1080p(1920x1080) resolution

And thats just the first generation TV versions.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html

http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5618734-1.html

SED/FEDs are not some new fad, they've been in and out of the news since 1994 and they are most similiar to the best display technology - CRTs. PQ focused imaging professionals, gamers, and video specialists still use CRTs because LCDs can't touch them still in various key areas (though LCDs have improved in some over the years).

SEDs are slightly different than FED with the advantages over the FED of cheaper manufacturing(similiar to ink-jet and silk-screen printing, requires no semiconductor tech, and does not need to be performed in a vacuum or special gases) and lower power consumption. An SED production line should cost 1/10th that of a LCD, so once companies are done getting the early adopter suckers for all they can, they should be very cheap with mass adoption

The key thing here is that at CES they had 42" working prototypes which already were running at 720p and 10000:1 contrast. The only drawback some viewers reported were slower refresh almost like a CRT at 60Hz (you can see a scan line like bar in photos of prototype SEDs) which supposedly won't be in the first generation production models and the specs will increase to those listed above.

CES Diary: Day Three
By Gordon Brockhouse CES hasn’t finished, but I’ve already picked what for me is the highlight of the show: the SED (Super-conduction Electron-emitter Display) technology developed by Canon and Toshiba. Yesterday, Robert Franner and I had an opportunity to attend a closed-door briefing and demonstration of the new technology.

The demonstration featured a side-by-side comparison of 37-inch plasma, LCD and prototype SED displays, all with 720p resolution. The demonstrators would not say which plasma display they were using; the LCD was a current Toshiba model. The plasma is a current model, and according to the presenters, an upmarket unit (as evidenced by the fact that it’s a high-def display). Still, based on its black performance, I would say I’ve seen better plasma displays, though it was clearly much better than the milky-grey units that were the norm a couple of years ago.

Flat-Out Beautiful: In every respect, the SED unit outperformed the plasma and LCD displays. The differences weren’t massive on scenes consisting mainly of mid-tones. But on very dark and very bright scenes, the SED display was far better. On dark scenes, blacks looked truly black; and moreover shadow detail was considerably better, allowing you to make out textures and details in dark fabrics for example. It was the same at the upper end of the brightness scale: more brilliant whites and better highlight detail. Motion was much better on the SED. Especially on the LCD, a sweeping metronome had noticeable blurring: it was completely clean on the SED.

Contrast and motion looked every bit as good as you’d get from a top-notch CRT, which isn’t surprising when you consider that the front surface of the SED display is basically the same as a large, high-resolution picture tube. Like a CRT, SED produces images by firing electrons at a screen coated with light-emitting phosphors. The difference is the source of those electrons. Instead of firing electrons from an electron gun and controlling their direction with an electromagnetic yoke, SEDs have a tiny solid-state electron emitter behind each pixel. The result is a very thin profile. The panel itself is only 2cm deep, and the entire display is 7cm deep.

In a nutshell, this was the best-looking flat-panel image that I’ve ever seen (though some of the new LCD models from BenQ, LG and Samsung that I’ve seen here also look stunning). Given that, I’m not surprised that SED’s developers are hoping to take a 20 to 30% share of the global flat-panel market.

 

[Transcend]

Ya I had heard about the dell's trying to find a few good reviews on th elarger ones.

Do the larger ones have the same backlight issues as the larger mac panels? I woudl prefer th emid sized one, but it has issues apparently.

edit: SEDs are definitely awesome, but the cost will be prohibitive for the first year or 3, much like LCDs were.

 

[jimmydean]

I ran the latest drop of Vista 2 weeks ago (build 2486 or something, was labeled Beta 2) on some new hardware and it took about 6 hours to fully piss my off. I ended up switching all the views to "classic mode" because there is no way to get to device mangler through the new UI. They have tried to protect the user from themself to the point of painful usage of the average geek.

I was running a 3.2 P4 HT with 2 gigs of memory and all sata drives and the performance was painful. The worst thing I found was there was no way to stop IE7 while pages are loading. I was using developer.intel.com to find drivers for the hardware and the page would get to 75%, then bomb out saying it couldn't be displayed. With no way to stop the page from loading, there was no way to get to the driver files.

 

[Transcend]

Well it IS beta...

 

[syadasti]

Ya I had heard about the dell's trying to find a few good reviews.

Do the larger ones have the same backlight issues as the larger mac panels?

I think there was some noise about that for some of the early batches, but my 2005FPW does not have it. The larger LCD panels due seem more vulnerable to uniformity issues. Gateway has a slightly better/newer 21" 1680x1050 panel for about $100 more.

My bad, the Cinema 20/Dell 2005 is the same panel, not the Cinema 23/Dell 2405.

Most anal PQ focused imaging pro's don't like the Cinema or Dell panel (the two photo pros I know don't use the Dell or Cinema for professional work). Spincrazy on RM is one of them and his finding seem to match this review - he thought the Eizo was one of the few LCD comparable to CRT...