[6thElement]

I know @Toshi has it, I think @johnbryanpeters does too
@stoney is talking about getting it
I've been thinking about adding it for a long time and there's been chatter from others

What I want:

• Sufficient solar capacity to offset our daytime electricity usage (which isn't high given only two of us and heating/hot water is gas powered currently).
• Battery backup to give power for the few power cuts we get each year.
• Once we go electric for the car - non-dino powered transport.

A quick Tesla quote was ~$15k after credits for 4.8kW of panels (12) and a powerwall.

Where else should I look to get a quote that won't cause an avalanche of spam or calls?

 

[boostindoubles]

Do you have incentives to go Solar? Will you be compensated for the excess power you produce?

Here is WA in the early years you were paid going rate for the power you kicked back to the grid. They stopped that and now you fill your piggy bank that resets every March. So you put power into your bank all summer and fall and then receive it back during the winter when production goes way down.

That's still better than paying for your winter power.

 

[6thElement]

Do you have incentives to go Solar? Will you be compensated for the excess power you produce?

Here is WA in the early years you were paid going rate for the power you kicked back to the grid. They stopped that and now you fill your piggy bank that resets every March. So you put power into your bank all summer and fall and then receive it back during the winter when production goes way down.

That's still better than paying for your winter power.

I'm going to need my CO solar consultants @Toshi @stoney and @Nick to answer these questions

There's still plenty of sun here in the winter, but I was wondering how easy (and cost difference) it is to get a separate ground mounted array, versus roof panels. A ground mounted solution I can clean the snow off in the winter if required. Our roof would be a lot tougher.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Do you have any decent place to put ground-mounted panels? Seems a better way than roof-mounted if you've got a spot...

 

[gonefirefightin]

If you are handy it will cost half of the average set up if you do it yourself. Some things also to consider before hand, does your roof have the position and area for panel placement? If not you may want to build a solar carport or use multiple arrays around the property to get the KW you will need. The battery tech is advancing so fast that you can have a whole house power setup for a few thousand dollars if you put together your own battery banks and BMS system and it will allow you to troubleshoot and fix/repair when you have the knowledge of putting it together.

I am currently planning my setup for my coach that will be the same KW as any home and car charging setup with battery storage.

This kid is probably the budget king of DIY solar, such a brainiac and great learning channel, plus he is charging his tesla with his revolving system https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos

 

[boostindoubles]

These guys spent a shit ton and paid to have this solar system installed on their flat roof. The installers only laid masonry blocks down on the bracing - I am sure the owners said not to screw into the roof for water leak potential. First big wind storm lifted the whole thing off the roof.

 

[6thElement]

Do you have any decent place to put ground-mounted panels? Seems a better way than roof-mounted if you've got a spot...

We've plenty of clear space below the house, but most of it is too shaded by trees until much later in the day. Unfortunately we'd probably struggle with finding enough unshaded space for 12x400W panels without cutting down a lot of old ponderosas.

The clear side of the house is also completely opposite where our mains feed comes in to the junction/fuse boxes...

If you are handy it will cost half of the average set up if you do it yourself. Some things also to consider before hand, does your roof have the position and area for panel placement? If not you may want to build a solar carport or use multiple arrays around the property to get the KW you will need. The battery tech is advancing so fast that you can have a whole house power setup for a few thousand dollars if you put together your own battery banks and BMS system and it will allow you to troubleshoot and fix/repair when you have the knowledge of putting it together.

I am currently planning my setup for my coach that will be the same KW as any home and car charging setup with battery storage.

This kid is probably the budget king of DIY solar, such a brainiac and great learning channel, plus he is charging his tesla with his revolving system https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos

Yeah, I'll happily not BBQ myself with the install

 

[Toshi]

I've got 13.94 kW on my roof. It overproduces for our current usage by about 3000 kWh/year. I did not opt for a battery since the economics didn't make sense (Xcel's time of use pricing differential is small).

Once a pickup with enough payload and range for your camper comes out you should get one with vehicle-to-home, and use that as your battery backup! Ford's at 1800 lb payload if 300 miles range, 5.5' bed, and about 100 kWh of usable backup capacity at this point.

 

[6thElement]

I've got 13.94 kW on my roof. It overproduces for our current usage by about 3000 kWh/year. I did not opt for a battery since the economics didn't make sense (Xcel's time of use pricing differential is small).

Once a pickup with enough payload and range for your camper comes out you should get one with vehicle-to-home, and use that as your battery backup! Ford's at 1800 lb payload if 300 miles range, 5.5' bed, and about 100 kWh of usable backup capacity at this point.

What's your heating system? We don't have AC so no massive power usage with that in the summer.
Also, I bet you don't lose power a few times a year like we do.

 

[gonefirefightin]

We've plenty of clear space below the house, but most of it is too shaded by trees until much later in the day. Unfortunately we'd probably struggle with finding enough unshaded space for 12x400W panels without cutting down a lot of old ponderosas.

The clear side of the house is also completely opposite where our mains feed comes in to the junction/fuse boxes...


Yeah, I'll happily not BBQ myself with the install

I had to fall quite a few pondos at my old place not only to maximize the angle but mostly due to limbs and wind blown storm damage from the trees/limbs/cones themselves. They really need a wide berth with ponderosas especially when you consider the cost of panels and the cost to have someone repair or replace them.

 

[Toshi]

What's your heating system? We don't have AC so no massive power usage with that in the summer.
Also, I bet you don't lose power a few times a year like we do.

NG furnace, ducted forced air. Also NG tankless hot water heaters (x 2 in series). One PHEV car in the garage currently, probably using 15 kWh per day for that.

2.5 ton AC running for much of the summer, on the other hand.

We don't have many power outages, true. I still want an EV with vehicle to home (and eventually vehicle to grid to make money through power arbitrage, selling it back at peak).

 

[stoney]

If you are handy it will cost half of the average set up if you do it yourself. Some things also to consider before hand, does your roof have the position and area for panel placement? If not you may want to build a solar carport or use multiple arrays around the property to get the KW you will need. The battery tech is advancing so fast that you can have a whole house power setup for a few thousand dollars if you put together your own battery banks and BMS system and it will allow you to troubleshoot and fix/repair when you have the knowledge of putting it together.

I am currently planning my setup for my coach that will be the same KW as any home and car charging setup with battery storage.

This kid is probably the budget king of DIY solar, such a brainiac and great learning channel, plus he is charging his tesla with his revolving system https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse/videos

XCEL requires a licensed solar contractor to install it. Already looked into it.

 

[gonefirefightin]

XCEL requires a licensed solar contractor to install it. Already looked into it.

I was referring to building a DIY solution, not commercially available packages

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I have a 4.64 kW nominal installation, 16 each of Solarworld Sunmodule Plus SW 290 mono panels, each paired with an Enphase M-250-72-2LL-S22 microinverter. Each panel/inverter pair is independent, so if something croaks, I don't lose the whole array.

From your description of your property, it doesn't really seem that you have a site for stand-alone panels. I'm not much on cutting down trees to facilitate installation of technological gadgets.

 

[Adventurous]

@stoney, or anyone else whose bothered to fogure it out, what's your payback period on a home array?

 

[HardtailHack]

Make sure you find a reputable company, there are a lot of house fires over here now from solar installs.
DC arcs are nasty things.

 

[6thElement]

@stoney, or anyone else whose bothered to fogure it out, what's your payback period on a home array?

Cue math on install cost versus current bill rate versus loan rate versus investment return.




My simple back of napkin sums give a massive 25 year payback period on pure cost of $15k versus our current $50ish per month electricity usage. But I'm also not sure what earning there are to be had selling the excess back to Xcel. Plus our rates are likely to change as they're going to a much higher peak rate charging versus off peak I believe.

Dino-juice free driving for the next car is also appealing.

 

[canadmos]

This will be @6thElement 's ground array, once warmed up.

Except replace these kitties with big mountain kitties.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I'm not much on cutting down trees to facilitate installation of technological gadgets.

Out here it's done for wildfire mitigation...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Out here it's done for wildfire mitigation...

It'd be more effective to cut down people.

 

[gonefirefightin]

It'd be more effective to cut down people.

They reproduce faster #putinproblems

 

[SkaredShtles]

It'd be more effective to cut down people.

You're not wrong... the encroachment into the forests is going to be more and more problematic as time passes, methinks.

 

[6thElement]

You're not wrong... the encroachment into the forests is going to be more and more problematic as time passes, methinks.

Big mostly grassy park that was up by me and owned by a church got sold off last year and is now McMansions...Fuck tax breaks for churches.

The elk that used to spend time there in the winter are likely pissed. The extra wells being sunk up here for the houses have pissed off all the existing well owners.

 

[maxyedor]

Any of you monkeys have the Sunrun set up?

Also, anybody looked at the Renogy Lycan as a back-up battery?

 

[Full Trucker]

Any of you monkeys have the Sunrun set up?

Also, anybody looked at the Renogy Lycan as a back-up battery?

@stoney

Sunrun. Tesla ended up being slightly cheaper, but less flexibility regarding known forward build out. They would only build to 100% usage, so no sell back built-in. Sunrun is building at 120%, so allowing for sell back and if be add an electric vehicle in the future - we will - we have capacity already.

 

[maxyedor]

Damnit, knew he posted that somewhere but couldn't find it, and couldn't remember if he went Sunrun.

@stoney did you by chance buy through Costco? How did they determine usage?

 

[Toshi]

I bet he bought through moosejaw using coupons then did a 3 way transfer between credit cards to eke out another 1%

and should have used Costco ultimately

 

[slyfink]

I've heard that with batteries for storage being so expensive, it's cheaper to buy a high mileage used Leaf, park it, and use its two-way charging capabilities as battery storage for the house. Or so I've heard.

 

[stoney]

@stoney, or anyone else whose bothered to fogure it out, what's your payback period on a home array?

It depends on how you do it. I looked at it from the standpoint of making the most out of my money long-term. It's a better long-term investment for me to take the 25yr loan at 1.99%, which leaves me with a 20yr payback, because I can invest the difference. My break-even, when I factor the invested money, becomes more like 15yrs with 10yrs of free money to invest.

If you just buy it outright, it's way cheaper with no investment risk - 12 year break-even on my case, with 110% production, so electric buyback is there (not factored). But you also take a huge amount of money out of investment with a very long break-even.

It's one of those things where you should create it as a debt related to the home, since it does add equity. Then look to the expense as how it impacts cashflow and where THAT break-even is. Our cashflow break-even, assuming electricity px increase at 5%, which XCEL is averaging, is 4.5 years.

 

[stoney]

Damnit, knew he posted that somewhere but couldn't find it, and couldn't remember if he went Sunrun.

@stoney did you by chance buy through Costco? How did they determine usage?

HD. But yes, Sunrun. Net they are more expensive, but their rates are notably lower than others, so I can keep more money invested longer. It also allows me to not make as much of an upfront payment, on the off chance we were to move, and never hit break-even.

 

[stoney]

I've heard that with batteries for storage being so cheap, it's cheaper to buy a high mileage used Leaf, park it, and use its two-way charging capabilities as battery storage for the house. Or so I've heard.

Heard the same. Car batteries are non-existent re: costs and actually drive. Where as the Tesla etc al batteries are expensive as fuck and tech in moving past them quickly.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I've heard that with batteries for storage being so expensive, it's cheaper to buy a high mileage used Leaf, park it, and use its two-way charging capabilities as battery storage for the house. Or so I've heard.

Heard the same. Car batteries are non-existent re: costs and actually drive. Where as the Tesla etc al batteries are expensive as fuck and tech in moving past them quickly.

Haven't really looked since the used car market got weird, but used to be that a used first gen leaf could practically be had for a song. The OG fiat 500e's were also incredibly cheap. As in, most of my bikes cost more than these cars were going for used and they weren't even really "high mileage".

 

[maxyedor]

HD. But yes, Sunrun. Net they are more expensive, but their rates are notably lower than others, so I can keep more money invested longer. It also allows me to not make as much of an upfront payment, on the off chance we were to move, and never hit break-even.

Out of curiosity, what was the ballpark equipment price? I assume install is going to be the biggest variable between Ca and Co.

I suppose I should just talk to the solar panel salesmen, but goddamnit those fuckers are annoying

 

[Pesqueeb]

Haven't really looked since the used car market got weird, but used to be that a used first gen leaf could practically be had for a song. The OG fiat 500e's were also incredibly cheap. As in, most of my bikes cost more than these cars were going for used and they weren't even really "high mileage".

Just stumbled across this on Reddit. Dude picked up a high mileage first gen for 1200 bucks. Seems like he wants to actually drive it and is replacing the wear items and cleaning out hoarder trash, but makes a good example for "cheap battery" if you're looking for home storage. I'd drop that battery out and let the rest go to the scrap yard.

 

[stoney]

Out of curiosity, what was the ballpark equipment price? I assume install is going to be the biggest variable between Ca and Co.

I suppose I should just talk to the solar panel salesmen, but goddamnit those fuckers are annoying

I'll talk to my Sunrun person. Super, super knowledgeable and straightforward about stuff. I had to do the financial math to confirm, but the maximization re utility provider, they were spot on. If they can talk out of state, I'll send you their info. If not, I'll see about getting someone they would refer to our there.

And my net of tax credit is around $33k. It's a pretty substantial array for residential - 9.8kwh, iirc. I could have gone cheaper, but I wanted the cashflow to keep more money invested. Plus they deal with tracking output to identify when there is an issue. That alone is worth a lot as well - one less thing I need to deal with.

 

[stoney]

Just stumbled across this on Reddit. Dude picked up a high mileage first gen for 1200 bucks. Seems like he wants to actually drive it and is replacing the wear items and cleaning out hoarder trash, but makes a good example for "cheap battery" if you're looking for home storage. I'd drop that battery out and let the rest go to the scrap yard.

Mounting it somewhere is the hardest part probably.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Mounting it somewhere is the hardest part probably.

If a fella was creative enough, probably wouldn't be too hard to mount it to a wall.

 

[slyfink]

I was chatting to friends last week, both are heavily professionally involved in climate change and energy efficiency. They are currently looking into having a solar array installed. I asked them why (a serious question), since our electricity comes from hydro almost 99.99% of the time: the GHG savings would be negligible. I pondered the same question myself since my roof needs to be redone soon. We all came to the same conclusion: for the money, the best measures to take here from a cost per tonne perspective, given our energy mix, is to a) electrify all the things (in the house), b) redo the building envelope.

As a powerful illustration of that (and in a nod to this thread's title), yesterday we turned off the heat to air out the house since the sun was shining and temps were in the 10°C range. I "forgot" to turn it on again last night, and the house is warmer than comfortable from the passive solar gain, even if outside temps aren't much above 14°C currently, but are still dipping below freezing at night.

I guess my point is, it's worth considering 1) what emissions are you displacing by going to solar energy, and 2) there may be lower-cost, easier to install energy efficiency solutions that would render quicker ROI... such as architectural and design considerations, and better insulation.

and FWIW, my friends have already done steps a) and b). They are going solar for greater energy independence, and for the "lead by example" factor. The whole "neato" factor of charging your car by sunlight factors high on their list too.

 

[Toshi]

I'll switch over to an air source heat pump when my current NG furnace fails. Time to payback just didn't make any sense back in 2015 when building the house, though.

I will note that I have R-38 walls and R-50 attic, though, via 9.5" exterior walls (two 2 x 4" walls with air gap).

 

[Westy]

Looked at my house on Google's Project Sunroof to see the viability of getting solar. Even with incentives I would be at a $2000 loss after 20 years. With neighbor's large trees to the south and a gloomy climate not enough power producing ability. Additionally the time of year when I could generate power are the times of year when I hardly use any power. It would probably make more sense for me to get a more efficient heat pump and hot water heater.