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Make Shimano Great Again!

captainspauldin

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,297
192
Jersey Shore
New XTR has been announced...

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-shimanos-new-xtr-m9100-is-more-than-just-12-speed.html

Takeaways:
  • New freehub body standard allowing a 10-51T cassette
  • 12 speed, but can be run as 11 speed for some reason
  • New bondage aluminum direct mount crankset
  • New I-Spec standard (fuck off, 4th I-spec standard shimano has come up with)
  • New brakes, hopefully these don't suck or aren't disposable like the current crop of x000 brakes.
  • XC and Enduro specific brake sets, 4pot for enduro, 2pot for xc.
 
Jeremy R

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,701
1,056
behind you with a snap pop
I like so much about the new xtr, but damn it, that new free hub standard is a head scratcher. Hardly anybody uses Shimano hubs. If they would have adopted sram's xd driver, we could have actually had a single standard for everyone going forward. Lizards.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,047
783
Yeah, so I thought since nobody buys our hubs or puts them on their bikes as OEM, let's invent a standard that nobody will be able to use. Right?

Dude, sweet ride! How's that new Shimano stuff?

It's great, but the cassette is sram.

They just chopped down their market by 90% when it comes to cassette purchases.
 
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captainspauldin

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,297
192
Jersey Shore
Electric_City said:
Yeah, so I thought since nobody buys our hubs or puts them on their bikes as OEM, let's invent a standard that nobody will be able to use. Right?

Dude, sweet ride! How's that new Shimano stuff?

It's great, but the cassette is sunrace.

They just chopped down their market by 90% when it comes to cassette purchases.
Click to expand...
FTFY, since SRAM won't sell OEMs just an Eagle Cassette without the whole drivetrain.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,779
7,044
borcester rhymes
the cassette standard is stupid. THey should have just copped SRAM's setup. I don't like saying it, but it's been on the market for several years now. Dropping your cassette on people's wheels, which they already have, is like a no-brainer. Forcing people to buy new cassette bodies or new wheels so they can "upgrade" is dumb. While I know this is XTR, and supposedly no-holds-barred the best, it still just doesn't make sense.

Also, I would love that dropper remote, but too bad it's ipec9000 compatible only.
 
R

roflbox

roflborx
Jan 23, 2017
3,163
834
Raleigh, NC
Sandwich said:
the cassette standard is stupid. THey should have just copped SRAM's setup. I don't like saying it, but it's been on the market for several years now. Dropping your cassette on people's wheels, which they already have, is like a no-brainer. Forcing people to buy new cassette bodies or new wheels so they can "upgrade" is dumb. While I know this is XTR, and supposedly no-holds-barred the best, it still just doesn't make sense.

Also, I would love that dropper remote, but too bad it's ipec9000 compatible only.
Click to expand...
Do you think SRAM would have allowed Shimano to license one of their products?
 
FlipSide

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,432
888
Sandwich said:
the cassette standard is stupid. THey should have just copped SRAM's setup. I don't like saying it, but it's been on the market for several years now. Dropping your cassette on people's wheels, which they already have, is like a no-brainer. Forcing people to buy new cassette bodies or new wheels so they can "upgrade" is dumb. While I know this is XTR, and supposedly no-holds-barred the best, it still just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
It sounds like Shimano was open to that but SRAM didn't want to license the XD driver. There's probably more to the story though...

Pinkbike article said:
Shimano says that the chances of licensing the XD driver were near zero and that Micro Spline gave them more options to optimize their cassette.
Click to expand...
 
SkullCrack

SkullCrack

Monkey
Sep 3, 2004
709
145
PNW
From the NSMB article:

The (SRAM) XD compatible driver body design is an open standard available to any hub manufacturer interested in producing a driver body compatible with the XX1 10-42 11-speed cassette (or current Eagle cassettes - Ed.). This open standard allows hub manufacturer to design an XD compatible driver body that works with their own ratchet design. - From SRAM literature.

 
slimshady

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
5,717
3,565
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Meh.







I have quite a few shimanero friends down here. One of them -who was eagerly waiting for the press release- told me yesterday "looks like a Box derailleur paired to a Leonardi cassette and a cheap crankset".

I feel XTR was and still is like a gold rack on your teeth. Cheesy bling you wear to try to look gangsta or badass, or dentist stuff, to put it in RM dialect. They are late to the party and seems like they can't for the love of @FSM figure out the cassette jumps. The crappy proprietary cassette spline makes things worse. And good luck with that magnesium master cylinder. Fancy exchanging them under warranty every two months? If their aluminum brake levers last less than a year without the dreaded bite point randomness, imagine how long the magnesium ones will last without ovalizing the master cylinder's bore.
 
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Wuffles

Wuffles

Monkey
Feb 24, 2016
157
98
Likes:

- Going to 1 more solely to piss off SRAM.
- The blatantly infringing narrow-wide chain ring tooth just to piss of SRAM.
- The fact that the Shimano fanboy crowd just got 4 new standards added to the mix, and none of them are backwards compatible.

Dislikes:

- New hub standards. I bet it's .0001% better in some utterly irrelevant way to XD, but since only Shimano and DT are making hubs for it, I don't give a damn.
- Still sticking with cup-and-cone. The 1890s called, they want their stupid design back. For every monkey whining about "better at dealing with the angular force generated in my massive legs!" I refer you to the concept of an angular contact bearing, used in all decent hubs (or at least you can put them in as replacements) now shut up. Shoulda died with the QR axle...
- New chainring standards. Guaranteed I will never run a Shimano crankset again.
- New I-spec (version... 4???). Just call it I-change, at least it would be an honest description.
- Two piece brake calipers. Refer to the Frankenbrake thread, this is terrible engineering in the name of cutting costs.
- The prices. That 12 speed cassette is $380 MSRP, a set of endurpo XTR brakes is $650 MSRP, and the 2x crankset $590 MSRP. Even assuming the normal 50% Shimano online discount, that's still stupid.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,062
10,626
AK
rideit said:
the Boost/cl xtr from last time around was 277 for the rear...
The new one is 231 grams
Click to expand...
Thought the 9000 was around 240, but that was before boost.

At least there are pedals? They haven’t managed to change the spindle standard yet? That’s about the only shimano part left that they haven’t F-ed up and that I’ll still buy now. No derailleurs, cassettes, hubs, cranks or brakes for me.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,663
7,021
shirk007 said:
Fishing reels, they make fishing reels.
Click to expand...
And the clutch system in a rear mech is pretty much how a drag system on a reel works.

The hub weights are impressive, same as Syntace MX hubs but they have normal bearings, normal cassette body and still has bearing adjustment.
 
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