The point is XD is a pretty much established standard by now. This MicroSpline thingy is becoming the next boost/superboost/megaboost/gandalfboost saga.
Make Shimano Great Again!
- Thread starter captainspauldin
- Start date
and yet we had the same collective shitstorm about it when it was launched that we're having now about microspline
the new xtr 12 speed cassette is slightly heavier but cheaper than the eagle xx1 12 speed cassette; 376g vs 354g; $380 vs $420.
edit: source - https://bikerumor.com/2018/05/30/shimano-xtr-m9100-actual-weights-pricing-design-story-more-photos/
edit 2 - update based on weight correction.
edit: source - https://bikerumor.com/2018/05/30/shimano-xtr-m9100-actual-weights-pricing-design-story-more-photos/
edit 2 - update based on weight correction.
Last edited:
I think we all hate new "standards", but most of us can at least appreciate when they turn from proprietary garbage to actual standard. The xd driver is just that. I still think it's stupid to quite literally reinvent the wheel to get one less tooth, but that's what happened, and everybody uses it now, so I can get behind it at least for the fact that it's common and replaceable.
I hated 142 when it came out, but then it became the norm and that's OK. I still hate boost tho, not worth buying all new everything.
I hated 142 when it came out, but then it became the norm and that's OK. I still hate boost tho, not worth buying all new everything.
At least in the case of both 142 and boost, a lot of hubs could be converted.
I don't love that there's a new freehub standard out in the world, but it does seem to offer some advantages. It should hold up much better than Hyperglide to using aluminium drivers and having the teeth dig in. And Shimano isn't wrong that XD requires a one piece cassette. I'm sure they could have made one if they'd really wanted to, but I'm 0% surprised that they didn't adopt Sram's design. Am I right in remembering that Sram made the freehub body half of the standard open source, but requires licensing to made an XD compatible cassette? If I am, no shit Shimano didn't go for that.
I don't love that there's a new freehub standard out in the world, but it does seem to offer some advantages. It should hold up much better than Hyperglide to using aluminium drivers and having the teeth dig in. And Shimano isn't wrong that XD requires a one piece cassette. I'm sure they could have made one if they'd really wanted to, but I'm 0% surprised that they didn't adopt Sram's design. Am I right in remembering that Sram made the freehub body half of the standard open source, but requires licensing to made an XD compatible cassette? If I am, no shit Shimano didn't go for that.
I'd wager this "standard" will be convertible to most hubs. So at least there's that...but I still need to convert a hub to run it, and that's going to take time and money. I wonder who the winner will be at the XT level, between weight and cost. If Shimano can knock out an 11spd cassette and freehub for similar weight and less cost than SRAM, I'd consider it.
DT Swiss has already stated that microspline will be available as a freehub only aftermarket upgrade for many of their hubs.
Two less teeth. I run a 9-42t cassette with XD driver. Two less teeth at the fast end save me eight teeth at the slow end. I hate the 50t pizza plates and long RD cages that come with them.
Last edited:
so you were OK with this when SRAM did this but not shimano?
"I still think"
but I do agree with stacka, less is more. I run an 11-40 for closer ratios and less weight, so I'm a weirdo, but I suppose I'd rather see a 9t cog than a 57t cog.
but I do agree with stacka, less is more. I run an 11-40 for closer ratios and less weight, so I'm a weirdo, but I suppose I'd rather see a 9t cog than a 57t cog.
most excellent
its just a matter of time till other companys (king, i9, hadley, hope, etc) pile onto the microspline train.
if memory serves me, dt swiss was also the only other hub company to offer XD drivers when it was launched.
If King made a microspline driver that fit my 142 hub, I'd be tempted to run the 11sp cassette. But it doesn't sound like that's in the works. For now.
I'm with Sammich, I'm sure it's coming. They just maybe haven't formally announced it yet.
Same here. I don't like big steps in climbing gears. Would be nice if they would have lowered the weight on the 11-40 xtr originally. Atm I see no need for a bigger cassette, youth spend with dad on road bikes still pays off magically.
376g not 316g They edited the article.
Until Shimano indicates that anyone other than them and Dt Swiss is going to be able to make this new freehub they are dead in the water. They also need to drop XT and SLX versions of this like yesterday.
good catch.
eh unlikely. people that are dropping the change for a full new xtr grouppo probably won't balk at having to get a new hub as well. besides, the new XTR won't be available until the fall, so plenty of time for others to hop on board.
xt and slx have both been updated in the last 2 years. i suspect we'll see new saint before these groups get another update.
Has anyone seen a tooth count for the 10-51?
I haven't seen it.
I want the low range of mine to be 42/46/51...
(but not with this XTR!)
I haven't seen it.
I want the low range of mine to be 42/46/51...
(but not with this XTR!)
10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51
yea, HAB pointed out earlier that the jumps are less stupid than eagle.
I hope that there is a new lockring standard on the cassette, and also the centerlock rotor, cause, well, I like new things.
Pretty much, except I'm not sure you can get a 9 tooth cog on the end.
But so what? two wrongs don't make a right. shimano had their perfectly good standard. SRAM decided they wanted their own (like Campy), and possibly offered some improvement. There was no need for Shimano to make another new Shimano standard except to obsolete old parts.
For the record, I've run all kinds of aluminum cassette bodies most of my riding life with no problems......back to the 90's and pinned together steel cogs.
I think it's just a big lizard dick contest....
As it stands now it doesn't sound like the others are going to be allowed on board. That's the rub. Soo many nice wheelsets out there with King, I9, Onyx, P321.....hubs that won't be able to get a freehub body. I personally don't think many of these riders will be wanting to switch to DTSwiss or Shimano hubs via a wheel rebuild.
I would have expected after 24hrs of shitty consumer feedback from their XTR launch Shimano would have come to their senses and announced that any hub manufacture could licence the micro spine freehub. Still hasn't happened. I don't think we're going to see the high end hub manufactures release an unauthorized micro spine freehub, but I could be wrong.
If they wait 2 yrs for XT and SLX they might as well just write off mtb entirely IMO. Eagle GX will just eat up whatever mid market oem they have left.
Shimano cannot license the rights to manufacture a XD driver compatible cassette.
that, then, would be the equivalent of stepping on said big lizard dick. Especially when others already make 12 sp cassettes that fit standard sHimano XG drivers.
They outmonopolied themselves
I'm saying no need to. pretty sure somebody made a 9 tooth lockring cog for existing SH XG cassette. Last objection overuled.
Source? I don't think there's room for that on most frames, since it would sit outboard of the driver. If you're talking about the Canfield one, that didn't use a standard HG freehub either.
I gotta look thru my junk pile. I believe it was Ultimate Machine, a small shop in Prescott that made cool Ti bits.
It didn't stick out farther. The lockrinbg sticks out past the last cog by a couple mm-ish already. By extending that thickness up, you could go inboard to attach the cog. It's close, the OD of an XG free hub at the end is 32 mm. The minimum root dia on a 9t cog is 33 mm. So you'd have 0.5 mm to play with.
It seems we went away from it because a 9 tooth cog is almost square, it starts to get inefficient, back in the day when we cared. But this was more of a road/XC concern. I ended up using a 10T cog that slid on like normal, just required a reduced OD on the nut to clear the tighter chain circle.
Watch Shimano come out with an 8 tooth just to fuck with me.
Source? Edit. Nevermind found one. Stupid. But doesn't mean it will stay that way. Same with centerlock.
Maybe I'm crazy, but part of me kinda doubts that shimano is perusing the comments here and pinkbike looking for business guidance.
Last edited:
From what i gathered, the 11spd cassette is just the 12spd cassette without the dinner plate (maybe a spacer). if so, that would make the spacing incorrect for use with existing 11spd shifters?
You are correct, 11-speed works with the 12-speed shifter via a selector switch on the shifter. It isn't spaced to work with current 11-speed shifters. It's intended to be a lighter weight setup with wider hub flange spacing due to the missing 12th cog.
It's really important to also compare the number of aluminum/aluminium cogs on cassettes, because the practical lifespan of those cogs is WAY shorter than steel.
That's why the SRAM cassettes are so much better than almost every alternative so far (eg. e13, Hope, Shimano) because the one-piece design lets them use the long-life hardened-steel cogs much further up the cassette, while still leading the class in weight. I think the extra cost is completely justified - I don't own any, but they're expensive with good reason.
Anyone can make a cassette light by making 2/3 of it out of cheese, making the cheese replaceable doesn't make it any less cheese.
Meh, I haven't noticed any undue wear on the big alu cog on my XX1/X01 cassettes. It seems to wear at about the same rate as the rest of the cassette. I think the Shimano design is a huge step forward for them and will translate to lower cost cassettes way better than the XD design does.
this is unfortunate news. I guess I'll just have to stick to SRAM cassettes. probably not a bad thing given the cost of King cassette drivers.
this was not my experience. I guess I use that big cog more! I got my bike used. the cassette was a season old. I put another season on it. the big cog had noticeable wear and dropped while back pedaling. the rest of the cassette is pretty much pristine. I got a replacement big cog from Wolftooth. Went on like a charm and now the cassette is good as new. If I get another season or two out of the cassette, the extra cost will have been fully justified as I'll have gotten at least twice, if not more, lifespan out of it (over the XT cassettes I used to run).
Another benefit of steel cogs is that they are also stronger. I used to bend cogs in SRAM cassettes back in the 9-sp days (before X-Dome). Shimano was much better, but they had more steel cogs. I destroyed a SunRace within a month when I strayed from Shimano a couple of seasons back. Now I think I'm sold on x-dome. I think it's a great design.