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jonKranked

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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so i've been reading first ride impressions, consensus is that the new XTR shifts really well under load, and this is what's really gonna differentiate it from sram.
 
canadmos

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
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I've always been able to shift under load, but it takes a certain level of finesse and letting up on the pedal stroke to do it without something going bang.

But I guess this could help with those newbie hacks who try it now and snap chains trying to down shift. :busted:
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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canadmos said:
've always been able to shift under load, but it takes a certain level of finesse and letting up on the pedal stroke to do it without something going bang.
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you pretty much just refuted your own claim. :rofl: from what i've read, you can shift it either direction without having to reduce power at all, and there are no death noises.
 
canadmos

canadmos

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May 29, 2011
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jonKranked said:
you pretty much just refuted your own claim. :rofl: from what i've read, you can shift it either direction without having to reduce power at all, and there are no death noises.
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I mean you're not really losing much power when you do it, but yeah you can't just power fist through shifts all the time and expect something to not eventually break. And if you're needing to down shift under that much load, on something steep enough where easing up even slightly will cause you to stop or something, you've already screwed something up. :busted:
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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jonKranked said:
so i've been reading first ride impressions, consensus is that the new XTR shifts really well under load, and this is what's really gonna differentiate it from sram.
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So after shimano made their shit really hard to shift with the 000-series we should be thankful they have fixed the problem they made themselves?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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The more I think about this group, the more I think it's just one of those incremental improvements, as opposed to revolutionary. It's not like the 2000s where you had to be constantly adjusting the barrel adjusters (they used to be on the derailleurs, remember that!?) and every time you took your QR rear wheel out and put it back in, the shifting was all screwed up. Shit is pretty good all around right now.
 
sethimus

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
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Jm_ said:
The more I think about this group, the more I think it's just one of those incremental improvements, as opposed to revolutionary. It's not like the 2000s where you had to be constantly adjusting the barrel adjusters (they used to be on the derailleurs, remember that!?) and every time you took your QR rear wheel out and put it back in, the shifting was all screwed up. Shit is pretty good all around right now.
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can you plz go with the script an bash any new parts coming out? we need consitency here...
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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interesting tidbit i just came across...

M9100 is a great performing package that elevates Shimano back into the top realm of component manufacturers. For the masses, however, XTR is far too expensive so we are already hoping many of M9100’s features trickle down into the XT and SLX groups. Prices are lower for OEM spec parts that come on a complete bike, but purchased individually, as we rode it, our group price exceeded $2,800! The good news is it sounds like Shimano knows this and is prioritizing XT and SLX over XTR with Di2 for their next big release.
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no mention of saint updates.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/A-Better-XTR-Vital-Rides-the-New-Shimano-M9100-Group-in-Crested-Butte,2477
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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StiHacka said:
The micro-spline is alive when Hadley offers conversions for existing 142 and 148 hubs.
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it's gonna be like xD drivers, eventually everyone will offer it. I suspect shimano will make the process easier once microspline is extended to XT, SLX, saint, etc. and also the road side. i doubt they developed microspline solely as an MTB application.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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I have a half a dozen rides on a hybrid XT/XTR setup. Shifts are much faster and quieter than Eagle and as discussed, shifts under power much better. Lever force is also lower.
 
Jm_

Jm_

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Westy said:
I have a half a dozen rides on a hybrid XT/XTR setup. Shifts are much faster and quieter than Eagle and as discussed, shifts under power much better. Lever force is also lower.
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That's like the polar opposite of Shimano 11spd. I have trouble believing it's that much better than the solid and fast shifts of my X0 stuff, one of my biggest complaint with the shimano 11 is the force it takes to upshift, even though it'll multi-release (2 gears), it takes so much more thumb pressure to upshift it that it cancels out the advantage.

At this point, the shifting better come with a good blowjob to be that much better. Not saying it can't be better, but it really seems like this is blown way out of proportion. Comparing to some old clapped out GX drivetrain or something good?
 
William42

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
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Jm_ said:
That's like the polar opposite of Shimano 11spd. I have trouble believing it's that much better than the solid and fast shifts of my X0 stuff, one of my biggest complaint with the shimano 11 is the force it takes to upshift, even though it'll multi-release (2 gears), it takes so much more thumb pressure to upshift it that it cancels out the advantage.

At this point, the shifting better come with a good blowjob to be that much better. Not saying it can't be better, but it really seems like this is blown way out of proportion. Comparing to some old clapped out GX drivetrain or something good?
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Hell, no need to shit on the GX stuff even, it feels really fuckin good.

That said, I'm replacing mine with XTR. :nose:

But, not because I have any problems with the GX, I actually like it quite a bit, just putting it on my wifes bike because her NX blows chunks and wont fucking be quiet in the low gears.

Plus I'm getting a new wheelset, so it seemed like a good time to make reckless spending decisions.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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Jm_ said:
That's like the polar opposite of Shimano 11spd. I have trouble believing it's that much better than the solid and fast shifts of my X0 stuff, one of my biggest complaint with the shimano 11 is the force it takes to upshift, even though it'll multi-release (2 gears), it takes so much more thumb pressure to upshift it that it cancels out the advantage.

At this point, the shifting better come with a good blowjob to be that much better. Not saying it can't be better, but it really seems like this is blown way out of proportion. Comparing to some old clapped out GX drivetrain or something good?
Click to expand...
6 month old GX setup with a brand new X0 cassette and chain. I found upshifts to be extremely slow in the smaller cogs. It shifted a lot faster when I ran the chain as long as possible, but meant it went slack in the smallest cogs and would skip under rough terrain.

Shorter chains setups would take forever to upshift on the smaller cogs.


The release lever for upshifts is stiffer, but down shifting is easier.
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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I'm just old and crotchety, but shifting to me seems to be pretty damn good and there seem to be a lot of "marginal" improvements being pushed. Maybe they are improvements, but the scale seems to be blown out of proportion...It's not like back in 1999 when the ESP derailleurs broke ever 5 rides and the shifters were sloppier than Guliani covering up his steps.
 
rideit

rideit

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Aug 24, 2004
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I respect your level of experience, JM, but goddamn, the new Shimano is just plain better, IMO.
we may agree to disagree.
but this seems to be the consensus.
cant wait to try an AXS shifter/derailluer and XTR cassette and chain combo, though.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
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I totally agree that most stuff works pretty well these days, but 11 and 12 speed Shimano stuff is definitely smoother and than Eagle. And the double release/upshift is moar gooder.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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HAB said:
At least in the case of both 142 and boost, a lot of hubs could be converted.

I don't love that there's a new freehub standard out in the world, but it does seem to offer some advantages. It should hold up much better than Hyperglide to using aluminium drivers and having the teeth dig in. And Shimano isn't wrong that XD requires a one piece cassette. I'm sure they could have made one if they'd really wanted to, but I'm 0% surprised that they didn't adopt Sram's design. Am I right in remembering that Sram made the freehub body half of the standard open source, but requires licensing to made an XD compatible cassette? If I am, no shit Shimano didn't go for that.
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Correct, the XD driver is an open standard but the means to attach a cassette is patent protected, so only SRAM can make a proper XD cassette. E-13 got around that with their clamp on cassette.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

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Jul 2, 2002
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My shifting on my 11sp XT setup used to be great. It has deteriorated lately. I’m looking forward to installing my new to me XTR shifter. New cable and housing has not done the trick with the old shifter....
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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Da Peach said:
My shifting on my 11sp XT setup used to be great. It has deteriorated lately. I’m looking forward to installing my new to me XTR shifter. New cable and housing has not done the trick with the old shifter....
Click to expand...

How old is your cassette and chain? I have always found that new chains work best with new cassettes and old cassettes with old chains. Used to replace chains quickly with a new cassette, then reuse the mildly used chains with the worn cassettes.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

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Jul 2, 2002
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Westy said:
How old is your cassette and chain? I have always found that new chains work best with new cassettes and old cassettes with old chains. Used to replace chains quickly with a new cassette, then reuse the mildly used chains with the worn cassettes.
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Oldish chain, older cassette.

It doesn’t want to hop off the biggest cog.

Super annoying. I’m thinking I must have tweaked my hanger.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

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rideit said:
The real new ‘magic’ is in the 12 speed chain/cassette combo.
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I’m all for it. I’m just not in for:

New rear wheel
New RD
New shifter
New Cassette
New chain

I’ll continue to suffer until I get a new bike.

I suppose I’ll be shelling out for most of those parts anyway. The new hub sticks in my craw a little.

but my current bike is 142, so unwilling to swap a new hub on old spacing.
 
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