Mammoth Protest!!!

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

I agree, If done correctly MTNX and DH could be awesome on TV.

Reguardless of any TV NORBA is not taking advantage of the potencial that MTB has. THey are not marketing it or making the most of the races. If they made a national event an actuall event, rather than just another race things would pic up.

Speaking of marketing, Naked Crit pix. How much more marketing do you need!

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

so the norba end of usacycling consists of these employees?

NORBA -- one Organizer, one Industry, and three athlete trustees

seems like we need a dher in one of the athlete spots. of two!

the voting is going on now! i have only been prompted for one vote?
what is going on?

who is in these spots now?

here is the availible athletes.

marla, colin , jeff evens, mike king, david K, Ross M, now he would be a Good REP! he knows where it came from.

ssaddict · Sep 3, 2004

bcd said:
so the norba end of usacycling consists of these employees?

NORBA -- one Organizer, one Industry, and three athlete trustees

seems like we need a dher in one of the athlete spots. of two!

the voting is going on now! i have only been prompted for one vote?
what is going on?

who is in these spots now?

here is the availible athletes.

marla, colin , jeff evens, mike king, david K, Ross M, now he would be a Good REP! he knows where it came from.

Umm, I just noticed Sanjay is on that list.

although it is spelled: Shanbhag, Janjay

Let's all nominate him! :thumb:

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

bcd said:
so the norba end of usacycling consists of these employees?

NORBA -- one Organizer, one Industry, and three athlete trustees

seems like we need a dher in one of the athlete spots. of two!

the voting is going on now! i have only been prompted for one vote?
what is going on?

who is in these spots now?

here is the availible athletes.

marla, colin , jeff evens, mike king, david K, Ross M, now he would be a Good REP! he knows where it came from.

How do you get the ability to vote? I think my vote would be for Marla, Ross or Mike.
Marla is one of the better educated people in DH and would represent the sport very well. Mike King has done a lot for the sport, for his sponsors and seems like an all round good advocate and Ross, well could you say no to ross?

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

I have a question, what are all the things that Norba provides to a racer, promotor or venue? Do they have it listed somewhere?

Kornphlake · Sep 3, 2004

dhtahoe said:
First off have you read the thread. Pro purse, poor course design, lack of organization, and one I didn't touch on pit space prices. This is mostly about Nationals. Local races seem to be doing ok these days because most local promotors don't use NORBA anymore.

I read your post and still all I get from it is a gripe from pro level riders. Really anybody who rides recreationally doesn't have the same issues a pro would. The courses may not be challenging enough for some but for others they're too challenging. There's no purse for racing in any other class, why should a beginner pay a bigger entry fee so a pro can get more money? Organization is somewhat difficult to quantify, results are tabulated and printed from a computer, to some degree that's organization. Gripes about marketing the sport and such really fall on the heads of sponsored riders ability to bring sponsors to the races in my opinion.

I don't mean to say you don't have valid concerns, I just don't feel like your concerns are representative of the concerns of all bikers.

profro · Sep 3, 2004

Kornphlake said:
I read your post and still all I get from it is a gripe from pro level riders. Really anybody who rides recreationally doesn't have the same issues a pro would. The courses may not be challenging enough for some but for others they're too challenging. There's no purse for racing in any other class, why should a beginner pay a bigger entry fee so a pro can get more money? Organization is somewhat difficult to quantify, results are tabulated and printed from a computer, to some degree that's organization. Gripes about marketing the sport and such really fall on the heads of sponsored riders ability to bring sponsors to the races in my opinion.

I don't mean to say you don't have valid concerns, I just don't feel like your concerns are representative of the concerns of all bikers.

I am an expert level racer, who went to my first national this year at Snowshoe. I was sorely disappointed. The course was lame. It was brand new and not properly seasoned before what should be Snowshoe's premier yearly event. Plus I expected more outside of racing. The lack of activities was weak. No concerts, no get togethers, nothing. Furthermore the lack of vendors and team vans was obvious. I remember going to a National back in 1995 or 1996 in Helen, GA and I remember there being so many vendors. You could buy anything and everything. I am heading to the National Championships at the end of the month and I hope its a little better.

But I think NORBA needs to be shaken-up.

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

ssaddict said:
Umm, I just noticed Sanjay is on that list.

although it is spelled: Shanbhag, Janjay

Let's all nominate him!

i guess it was done in june 14th?

has anyone else voted?

i anly hade one person on my ballet?

current:

NORBA Board of Trustees

Teresa Eggertsen
Elite Athlete Trustee P.O. Box 3672
Park City, UT 84060 Phone: 435.649.5663
Fax: 435.649.5663
eggy@parkcity.net

Gary Fisher
Industry Trustee 49 Karl Avenue
San Anselmo, CA 94960-1742 Phone: 415.459.5570
Fax: 415.459.6001
geefisher@aol.com

Jerry Foss
Official Trustee 2220 East Route 66 Suite 101
Glendora, CA 91740 Phone: 626.250.2351
jfoss@ix.netcom.com

Jay Franklin
Land Access 3197 Gainer Drive
Powder Springs, GA 30127 Phone: 678.567.9357
Fax: 770.427.1907
jayfsorba@mindspring.com

Mike King 1230 Avenida Chelsea
Vista, CA 92083 Phone: 760.599.0544
Fax: 760.599.1237
mking@harobikes.com

Lisa Nye
Organizer Trustee 1412 Broadway
Kerrville, Texas 78028 Phone: 830.896.6864
Fax: 830.896.6866
hillbike@ktc.com

Tom Spiegel
Organizer Trustee Team Big Bear
P.O. Box 2932
Big Bear Lake, CA 92315
Phone: 909.866.4565
Fax: 909.866.5410
janet@teambigbear.com

Ann Trombley
Elite Athlete Trustee 323 N Columbine St, Apt. A.
Golden, CO 80403 Phone: 303.278.0291
trailmaster@mindspring.com

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

dhtahoe said:
WOW!!! When I logged on it gave me an automatic ballot that didn't have ANY of those names on it. Did I just wake up in Florida Vote for King or Spiegal!!

so i didn't even get that chance?

who was on your ballot?

ssaddict · Sep 3, 2004

I can only vote for Lisa Nye, Who the hell is she?!? There is suppose to be a statement attached but nope, no discription whatsoever.

What the hell kind of an election has only one canidate?

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

How does this voting work? WHo votes, all members of Norba or pro's or who?

Anne Trombley races for my shop, but she is a roady, so I don't think she will be a good representative of the DH community.

Jeremy R · Sep 3, 2004

profro said:
I am an expert level racer, who went to my first national this year at Snowshoe. I was sorely disappointed. The course was lame. It was brand new and not properly seasoned before what should be Snowshoe's premier yearly event. Plus I expected more outside of racing. The lack of activities was weak. No concerts, no get togethers, nothing. Furthermore the lack of vendors and team vans was obvious. I remember going to a National back in 1995 or 1996 in Helen, GA and I remember there being so many vendors. You could buy anything and everything. I am heading to the National Championships at the end of the month and I hope its a little better.

But I think NORBA needs to be shaken-up.

It not gonna be any better, and it will probaly be worse. How many vendors are going to be at a race that not everybody can go to.
I realize Snowshoe is the only National you have been to, but they are not to blame for it being different than Helen in '96.
They are ALL different, because sponsorship is WAY down since then. At all
nationals. As a matter of fact, course and weather aside, Snowshoe has an AWESOME venue for a National. I personally think it is better than places like
Big Bear and Vermont.
And Snowshoe had a alot more vendors this year than last. Well, I am not trying to compare venues here, just pointing how the whole system has weakened.
It all revolves around MONEY, and our sport is not bringing any in for various reasons.
More racers = more future sponsors.
And I think it is the little things that bring out the racers.
Most importantly, fun courses to ride. We need a little more effort in making the DH courses fun and flowy.
Again, I want to point out the US Open as an example.
Fun, awesome course that was not hard to ride but it was hard to ride fast.
There was 190 people trying to qualify in the open amateur class. Amazing.
Norba should study that event.
Take Vermont for instance, they could easily have the sweetest course around with just a bit of effort. But instead, they ran jacked up DHers straight down a big rock infested and hidden hole ski slope with no turns.
So every lift ride up, I had to watch 4 wheelers carrying people down with bones sticking out of them. Ya think that will hurt attendence? :rolleyes:

Sorry for the rant, I gotta refill my coffee now.
And I am still holding out hope for next year.
Jeez, I'm optimistic.

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

ssaddict said:
I can only vote for Lisa Nye, Who the hell is she?!? There is suppose to be a statement attached but nope, no discription whatsoever.

What the hell kind of an election has only one canidate?

YEAh, that is who was on myu ballet.

only her. so what is goign on here?

Lisa Nye

NORBA
1432 Broadway
Kerrville, TX 78028

Phone: 830.896.6864
Fax: 830.896.6866

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

bcd said:
YEAh, that is who was on myu ballet.

only her. so what is going on here?

Lisa Nye

NORBA
1432 Broadway
Kerrville, TX 78028

Phone: 830.896.6864
Fax: 830.896.6866

so i called and talke dto lisa husband and she is the ONLY canadate.

blaa blaa xc expert 40+ racer. said she has talked to marla about some issues
in dh but she and tom Spiegel
are the Organizer Trustees.
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=242

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

Spectacular gets Spectators. I didn't think Durango was a timed redbull however. The third drop was pretty gnarly but it wasn't out of that many peoples reach.

heikkihall · Sep 3, 2004

dhtahoe said:
why are the courses getting to be such a huckfest. Don't get me wrong I LOVE technical as hell, but this year it kinda became a timed Red Bull Rampage.

What courses do you mean by this? It certainly wasnt part of the national series

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

heikkihall said:
What courses do you mean by this? It certainly wasnt part of the national series

dhtahoe said:
Oh Durango rules... Outdoor Moto on a DH bike!!! Sick!!!

I am confused now. Durango was the only one that I could thing of that had a bit huck in it. Which course resembles Redbull?

I know sanjay · Sep 3, 2004

dhtahoe said:
Oh I'm talking about Durango. I loved it but knew alot of people that got carted. It's a good thing that they closed it for the Experts. Idaho was badass too, but should they be running experts down it in all it's glory. IMO certain courses should have more pro only lines. So many people sign up expert so they can ride the "hard" course. Don't get me wrong I myself know some experts that are FAST, but it sucks to drive 900 miles too catch three people on your race run. .

Is this Herbold? Heil dhTahoe the answer to all our prayers. so what your saying is that we should progress the sport in America but send expert riders such as the JR's, also known as the future of america, down the sport course, that is progression my friend. Get your shleathers out of a bunch.

SprungShoulders · Sep 3, 2004

Like any business, I think NORBA won't really have great incentive to change much unless their sales drop. We are the consumers. One big way to send NORBA a message is to vote with your wallet and simply not go to NORBA events. I know with sponsorship commitments and all it's perhaps not as easy as that, but if we keep filling NORBA's coffers with $$$, no amount of bitchin' and whinin' is going to make a difference. Why should it if there are no negative indicators on NORBA's balance sheet? The big-name sponsors felt their contributions were being mismanaged, so they bailed. We, to a certain extent, also feel that our contributions (i.e. entry fees) are also being mismanaged (poor courses, no prize money, etc etc), so what should we do? Well, it kinda follows that perhaps choosing to not race NORBA events until they pull their collective heads out of their asses might be in order. If enough racers choose to not participate, NORBA might finally solicite a serving of humble pie, and ask what their consumers might want to see in the sport of mountain bike racing.

To some degree NORBA subscribes to the old Henry Ford model of car color offerings, i.e., "You can have it in any color you want, as long as it's black". If we want a scuba yellow car, we might just have look to another supplier.

Motionboy2 · Sep 3, 2004

I know sanjay said:
Get your shleathers out of a bunch.

Maybe you should follow your own advice. DH tahoe has some valad points. Expert riders are not as skilled as Pro riders... If that were not the case then they would be pro's.
If there is an expert line, a pro line and a sport line then it will maximize everyones abilities. It will also allow "stunts" like the drop at Durango to exist without a catastrophy. The more spectacular features like this the more likely you are to draw a crowd and then there is always possibilities from there.

SprungShoulders- I agree, the only problem I can see is that Norba is part of USAcycling which gets money from not only MTB but Road. Road is where the $$ is right now and if norba fails completely then who knows if USAcycling would just cut it of entirely!?!

Transcend · Sep 3, 2004

Great Spiegel...he is part of the mess we have now. And a 40+ xc racer. Awesome, just what we need, more pro payout for Xc riders. No money for Dhers, lame courses, and bad timing.

Yeah. For everyone bitching saying pro purse doesn't matter, it does. This is supposed to be a NATIONAL series, yet they BS people, charge out the ass, and then have no payout. Sorry, that dopesn't wualify as a PRO LEVEL NATIONAL event. It's a local race and should have pie plates as #s.

The canada cup series holds nationals too. We have an E2 pro payout, and they exceed that. They paid 10 deep at a friggin LOCAL QUEBEC cup last week. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE to be charging riders that much money (about $25 more then a canada cup) and give nothing back.

Also, most canada cups are very well organized, have lots of practice and the courses are pretty damn good 99% iof the time.

NORBA sucks the big one on the race side of things still, and it will not improve until some more morons are fired, and someone who knows what is up is hired. It si a good old boys network.

The UCI should COMPLETELY revoke any sort of uci points process (E level races) from NORBA. Don't wanna meet the pro payout minimums we set? Then sorry, your races don't count.

Eigil · Sep 3, 2004

Damn, I saw this and thought somebody was going to protest the retarded practice times for MTX and DH.

ÃX · Sep 3, 2004

Transcend said:
The canada cup series holds nationals too. We have an E2 pro payout, and they exceed that. They paid 10 deep at a friggin LOCAL QUEBEC cup last week. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE to be charging riders that much money (about $25 more then a canada cup) and give nothing back.

The UCI should COMPLETELY revoke any sort of uci points process (E level races) from NORBA. Don't wanna meet the pro payout minimums we set? Then sorry, your races don't count.

totally agree!

i have been to local races where they give 100 percent paypack. that is the way it should be. + more for nationals. it should be in the NORBA RULES>

durango had 60 riders at $ 55 that is 3300. that is a ok chunk for the pro's
not no 5 deep. 20 deep. it would of cost them nothing. well, 3300. that would make some nice payments on there BMW's

DH Diva · Sep 3, 2004

"There's no purse for racing in any other class, why should a beginner pay a bigger entry fee so a pro can get more money? "

Well, one thing to remember is the entry fee for pro and semi is usually about $5-$10 more per event, and instead of our license costing $55, it costs $125, and yet we don't seem to get much more out of the deal. You'd think with some of that extra money they could come up with a purse. Just something to think about.

MMike · Sep 4, 2004

You guys are mountain bike hippies.

Fight the power! Hell no we won't go! Save the whales! No nukes!

If only Bob Dylan were 40 years younger, you could have yourselves an anthem....

MMike · Sep 4, 2004

Fur is murder!!

Heath Sherratt · Sep 4, 2004

Motionboy2 said:
Maybe you should follow your own advice. DH tahoe has some valad points. Expert riders are not as skilled as Pro riders... If that were not the case then they would be pro's.
If there is an expert line, a pro line and a sport line then it will maximize everyones abilities. It will also allow "stunts" like the drop at Durango to exist without a catastrophy. The more spectacular features like this the more likely you are to draw a crowd and then there is always possibilities from there.

SprungShoulders- I agree, the only problem I can see is that Norba is part of USAcycling which gets money from not only MTB but Road. Road is where the $$ is right now and if norba fails completely then who knows if USAcycling would just cut it of entirely!?!

I am confused, didn't they have an alternate line for experts at that drop?

Heath Sherratt · Sep 4, 2004

There were also some pro's who didn't do that drop, should we have taken it out for them? I thought that it was great that they had a drop with an alternate line around it. My friends swore that the line through the rocks was faster and i liked the drop, we are both experts and both had enough sense and security to ride within our limits. It's when you do things that you shouldn't, you get hurt. The problem wasn't with the course it was with the riders discernment.

Bicyclist · Sep 5, 2004

It would make it easier if you just qualified...

Just kidding. I agree, the National finals should be just like any other race, you show up, pay, and race.

Motionboy2 · Sep 5, 2004

Heath Sherratt said:
I am confused, didn't they have an alternate line for experts at that drop?

Yeah there was a seperate line for the Experts at the drop, My comment was more in reference to this:

I know sanjay said:
so what your saying is that we should progress the sport in America but send expert riders such as the JR's, also known as the future of america, down the sport course, that is progression my friend. Get your shleathers out of a bunch.

Jamsoul · Sep 5, 2004

I think DHTAHOE has a point...and if any thing comes out of this forum it just might be that our sport is being mismanaged at the highest level. I mean you call usa cycling about their own rules and they cant even give you an answer. Honest people who understand racing, and what drives people to want to race is what we need at usa cycling...for example missy giove, marla streb, shaums march, eric carter or lopes just to name a few. Also I think big bike companies are to blame for some of the fiasco in our sport. Sure $3000 frames are nice but if you dont race b/c norba courses are always flat and void of anything technical...guess what bike companies people will stop buying bikes. Even if you dont race...say Big Bear that place has so much potential but the 3 main runs (westridge is ok) are garbage b/c of norba rules (less jumps, more turns, no technical sections) I didnt drop $4800 on my V10 to ride fireroads. norba has even messed up xc races...IMO a road rider should not be able to win a mountain bike event. a mountain biker should have technical some skill, xc is just road riding on fat tires. NORBA doesnt promote our sport...but they expect our support at races. NORBA NEEDS TO SEEK MORE SPONSORS, how do you think USPOSTAL had success? The team had to first acquire US postal as a sponsor...and then there were 6 yellow jerseys. (Honda is getting in mountain bikes try them.)I dont know what the best solution is to get NORBA's attention but something needs to be done, b/c at the end of the day the rider is who suffers whilst management at norba get fatter and fatter.
:evil:

ink:

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