Man Given Crack Cocaine To Register Voters Arrested In Ohio
- Thread starter zod
- Start date
The easiest one I can think of is to trade welfare checks for public service.
There are lots of things that need doing that state an local governments have to put off because they can't afford to pay people to do them. Folks on welfare could accomplish many of those tasks AND perhaps gain a marketable skill that could be translated into an actual job. How many schools in your area could use a fresh coat of paint?
I'm not up on how exactly he did it, but Tommy Thompson reformed welfare in Wisconson to the degree that the number of people on welfare droped by like 80%. There are ways....I just think that in a lot of cases govt's aren't using them because people on welfare represent a voting segment that is beholden to them.
There are lots of things that need doing that state an local governments have to put off because they can't afford to pay people to do them. Folks on welfare could accomplish many of those tasks AND perhaps gain a marketable skill that could be translated into an actual job. How many schools in your area could use a fresh coat of paint?
I'm not up on how exactly he did it, but Tommy Thompson reformed welfare in Wisconson to the degree that the number of people on welfare droped by like 80%. There are ways....I just think that in a lot of cases govt's aren't using them because people on welfare represent a voting segment that is beholden to them.
The Wisconsin Works program, known as W-2] replaced AFDC. It is an employment program rather than a welfare program. It requires those who can work to get a job and those who cannot to contribute according to their abilities. The old system showered recipients with all the welfare benefits possible, thus encouraging dependency. Wisconsin Works uses resourceful financial and employment planners who will help program participants. Planners can provide emergency loans for employment-related needs. W-2 provides participants with child care, health care, transportation and training. February 2000 figures show the W-2 caseload is under 6,700 families. Thats a reduction of 80% since W-2 started.
"The welfare system is a perfect example of what I refer to as government sense. When you pay people not to work, not to get married, and to have children out of wedlock, guess what happens? People do not work, they do not get married, and they have more children out of wedlock.
Handing out a welfare check and expecting nothing in return is not public assistance, it is public apathy - Here is your check, see you next month. So while Washington stood around and talked about how welfare needed to be changed, we in the states-I started in 1986-started doing something about it. We started offering hope and opportunity along with the welfare check and expecting certain responsibilities in return. We put common sense reforms in place. We required young men and women up to age 19 to go to school; and in the case of chronic truants, we took away that portion of the welfare check attributable to that young man or woman. Some opponents said, What if they dont want to go to school? And I said, Tough.
"Now I am undertaking the most radical program I have ever done in welfare-we are eliminating it. We did away with the welfare department and turned it into a jobs department. Everyone has to do something in order to receive a check.
In order to accomplish these things we had to go to Washington and kiss someones ring to say, Please give us a chance to try something that might work. I have had waivers under Reagan, Bush and Clinton. Why should states need waivers to try innovative ideas in welfare? Why should we have to go to Washington and kiss somebodys ring to do what everybody wants us to do and that is to change welfare in our society and give people jobs and hope and optimism
That is why I am fighting for the government to block grant welfare funding back to the States"
~Tommy Thompson
"The welfare system is a perfect example of what I refer to as government sense. When you pay people not to work, not to get married, and to have children out of wedlock, guess what happens? People do not work, they do not get married, and they have more children out of wedlock.
Handing out a welfare check and expecting nothing in return is not public assistance, it is public apathy - Here is your check, see you next month. So while Washington stood around and talked about how welfare needed to be changed, we in the states-I started in 1986-started doing something about it. We started offering hope and opportunity along with the welfare check and expecting certain responsibilities in return. We put common sense reforms in place. We required young men and women up to age 19 to go to school; and in the case of chronic truants, we took away that portion of the welfare check attributable to that young man or woman. Some opponents said, What if they dont want to go to school? And I said, Tough.
"Now I am undertaking the most radical program I have ever done in welfare-we are eliminating it. We did away with the welfare department and turned it into a jobs department. Everyone has to do something in order to receive a check.
In order to accomplish these things we had to go to Washington and kiss someones ring to say, Please give us a chance to try something that might work. I have had waivers under Reagan, Bush and Clinton. Why should states need waivers to try innovative ideas in welfare? Why should we have to go to Washington and kiss somebodys ring to do what everybody wants us to do and that is to change welfare in our society and give people jobs and hope and optimism
That is why I am fighting for the government to block grant welfare funding back to the States"
~Tommy Thompson
If only it were that easy. You're talking about a program that I (and IMO, common sense) support. Unfortunately, employing a trained laborer costs roughly twice what they're paid in wage. Employing AND training laborer costs even more. I'm all for it, but most (fiscal) conservatives are not. Can you imagine Bush doubling the federal welfare program? Of course not, even though in all likelihood you'd see a drastic drop in need within 5 years.
It's not like people (liberals) have never thought of these ideas. It's almost always that no one (conservatives) will give them the funding to work.
However, I do like your line of thinking, and if, knowing the costs, you're still for this type of program, then I apologize for my harsh comments earlier.
It's not like people (liberals) have never thought of these ideas. It's almost always that no one (conservatives) will give them the funding to work.
However, I do like your line of thinking, and if, knowing the costs, you're still for this type of program, then I apologize for my harsh comments earlier.
I'm only 35. If it takes a few years to straighten it out and costs less in the long run then f-it, spend the money now, we'll get it back later.
Liberals are full of ideas, but it takes a Republican to get it done
I think Thompsons(R) program took less than 5 years to achieve its 80% improvement.
Liberals are full of ideas, but it takes a Republican to get it done
I think Thompsons(R) program took less than 5 years to achieve its 80% improvement.
I still call bull****. Jesus never went around and made sure that everyone he gave fish to was a hard worker. He healed beggars, remember? Encouraged charity and giving.
Sounds exactly like what you're calling for, doesn't it?
Y'know, it's bad news when an atheist has to call you out on acting a little more like the principal figure in you religion (you know, the one it happens to be named after?)
Sounds exactly like what you're calling for, doesn't it?
Y'know, it's bad news when an atheist has to call you out on acting a little more like the principal figure in you religion (you know, the one it happens to be named after?)
One of the things I like about atheism is the lack of hypocrisy.Silver said:
Silver said:
No.
I'm calling for a cessation of the a$$rape we are taking to coddle those who will not work.
READ the stuff I wrote/posted about welfare reform.
Charity and giving to those who truely need it is one thing enabling a culture of leaches is entirely different.
fluff said:
Where is the hypocrisy?
Im saying that we SHOULD help those that need it.
So shall I surmise that you would have the system remain the way it is? Or worse grow?
Easy to say when it isn't YOUR money.
You are now, after someone mentioned it. You weren't earlier.Damn True said:
Show me where Jesus means tests the people he gives fish to.
Equating taxes to being anally raped is in bad taste too, by the way. You're hardly getting raped by taxes.
Get off the endictments of my faith, it is starting to pi$$ me off.Silver said:
Because I didn't type it means I didn't believe it? Don't for a second think that based on what you read here that you have an accurate picture of my thoughts, feelings and beliefs. I haven't offered enough to give it, and there is no way you could figure it out from what I have offered.
I have supported welfare reform like the kind I described for years.
There is no testing going on here. Im saying we shouldn't be giving handouts to those who dont need it.
I'm not? Every cent I earn between January 1st and the end of April goes to state and federal taxes. That is too much.
Damn True said:
Why should I get off of your faith? You're willing to trot it out, and I'm merely pointing out that you're spouting a lot of stuff that I didn't read coming out of Christ's mouth.
And hey, if you're getting assraped by taxes, let me point something out. God appointed George Bush, so in a way (due to the Trinity, if you're into that) that happens to be the cock of Jesus that is impaling you and making work for other people.
Praise the Lord.
I made no mention of it in this discussion until YOU and Jr-Bullit decided to behave like a$$es and make an issue of it.
I fail to see any point in your arguement other than an opportunity for a childish poke in the eye.
I fail to see any point in your arguement other than an opportunity for a childish poke in the eye.
Another news bit on the subject...
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041019/NEWS09/410190343
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041019/NEWS09/410190343
I made issue of your sig - not your faith. I could care less where you got your quote from. You came in passing judgement on those who have served their time based on the judgement passed down upon them by our legal justice system, and denying them the right to participate in their own government by voting. Your sig relates to pride and a haughty spirit leading the way to a fall, and by passing judgement on others whose stories, issues, and reasons for their crimes are completely unknown to you, you act in a prideful and haughty way to my eyes.
You, on the other hand, took it as a slight to your religion. So sorry.
You, on the other hand, took it as a slight to your religion. So sorry.
STFU and get back to the story at hand.....
HUGZ NOT DRUGZ
Mary Poppins..........what a f*ckin' crackhead
HUGZ NOT DRUGZ
It's not a poke in the eye to you specifically. Wait, actually it is, but there is another issue at work here.Damn True said:
There is a large segment of the population in this country that trots out Jesus whenever they think he's useful to their point, but they also forget the demands that Jesus puts on them.
It's a lot like getting cut off and getting flashed the finger by someone with a Jesus bumper sticker. If you're not going to take your religion seriously, why should I? (And with an amazing lack of compassion and a spirit of ridicule, I'm going to argue that you're not very Christ like, especially in light of your sig. By the way, have you read the next verse? Let me do the honors: "Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud." Proverbs 16:19)
By the way, pokes in the eye?
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100139
Well clearly you have found yourself devoid of a valid point so you have degenerated to insult. If thats what you need to do to feel good, go ahead, I can take it. Honestly I won't lose any sleep over it.
I didn't "trot out Jesus" you and jen made really pi$$-poor attempts to attach my disgust with this countries continued entitlement programs that only help to perpetuate themselves to a conflict with my faith.
I submit the following:
Who is more thoughtfull, compassiaonate and caring? The person who is looking to make the investment to help people to become self sufficient, reduce the costs of entitlement programs AND the tax burden on the general populace. Or, the person that wants to perpetuate the cycle of dependance by continueing if not growing entitlement programs?
Because I have a different viewpoint than you, you chose to assume that I did not care or think about the issue or people involved in it and you chose to insult me and what I believe. Very "liberal" of you.
Main Entry: 1lib·er·al
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lEodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
...as for the link....whatever, they are JOKES. I'm sorry, I didn't get the memo that said it was ok for people to make jokes about Republicans/Conservatives, but not Liberals/Democrats. I can laugh at myself, pity you can't do the same.
I didn't "trot out Jesus" you and jen made really pi$$-poor attempts to attach my disgust with this countries continued entitlement programs that only help to perpetuate themselves to a conflict with my faith.
I submit the following:
Who is more thoughtfull, compassiaonate and caring? The person who is looking to make the investment to help people to become self sufficient, reduce the costs of entitlement programs AND the tax burden on the general populace. Or, the person that wants to perpetuate the cycle of dependance by continueing if not growing entitlement programs?
Because I have a different viewpoint than you, you chose to assume that I did not care or think about the issue or people involved in it and you chose to insult me and what I believe. Very "liberal" of you.
Main Entry: 1lib·er·al
Pronunciation: 'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lEodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free
BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
...as for the link....whatever, they are JOKES. I'm sorry, I didn't get the memo that said it was ok for people to make jokes about Republicans/Conservatives, but not Liberals/Democrats. I can laugh at myself, pity you can't do the same.
Crack the Vote!
No N8.......what's the thing in lit. where you put two seprerate sentances into one??
Smoke the Rock the Vote
Smoke the Rock the Vote
Wrongo...Damn True said:
My problem is you perpetuating the meme that poor people are lazy leeches. It really seems like your disqust is more with the people on the program than with the programs themselves. Pointing out that your attitude conflicts with your religion a bit was just gravy, much like pointing out to the guy with the Greenpeace sticker and the hybrid car that he really shouldn't dump used motor oil into the drain that says "Leads to Ocean."
Who brought up public assistance in the first place in this thread? Wasn't me, and I don't think it was Jr_Bullit. Then you dug yourself in deeper by claiming taxes are akin to an assraping, which was classy. Shortly, I imagine you'll be pulling into Grover Norquist territory and equate taxation with the holocaust.
Because really, after taxes are rape, the only thing you can do to make them seem worse is equate them to a genocide.
Ya know, if you don't understand what I am saying, and either you often dont or you choose to decide what I mean regardless of what I say feel free to ask.Silver said:
My disgust is with the people who TAKE ADVANTAGE of the system and the system that allows it. I said, no less than three times (which is why I am led to believe you either don't read, understand, or choose to ignore what I am actually saying) that there ARE people who genuinely need public assistance, and I have no problem with them getting it. My problem is with those who can and choose not to take care of themselves.
Poverty is not an incurable disease. If you honestly believe that there aren't people who are in that situation as a result of their own inaction you are either seriously deluded or morbidly overcome with guilt for your own precieved excesses.
Greenpeace - hybrid - oil.......whatever. I don't know anyone tall enough to reach that far.
If you find giving up in excess of 35% of your annual income to taxes acceptible then more power to ya. I hope you got kissed first because you are certainly getting ____ked.
I find those figures, espeicially in light of the way my govt squanders the money on senseless entitlements abhorant and pretty dang close to an a$$rape in terms of fairness.
You know, it goes both ways. Locally the college republicans at my university were having people sign fake petions. The petions actually were a contract that pledged your alligence to the republican national party and affiliated you with them. Some took it so far as to use the information to register these people to vote as republicans without their conscent. The people collecting signatures on the fake petions were telling people it was to get measures on the ballot that would enforce stricter punishments for pediphiles and repeat sex offenders. Talk about dirty tactics. Politics get ugly. I would hardly chastise a party for targeting a demographic, both sides do it. What I find disgusting is when you lie to someone and tell them they are helping put child molesters behind bars and they are secretly registering you to vote as a part of a party, without your concent.Damn True said:
DH Diva said:
Agreed, dirty pool to say the least.
Way over the line.Changleen said:
By your satement we are left to infer that you think people of faith are less able to deal with life on their own than those who are without faith.
So I suppose Jewish people fall into that group for following the Torah?
.....Muslims for following the Koran?
....Buddists too?
...Native Americans....heck they don't even have a book.
...Better throw the Maori in for their belief in Po, Te Ata, Rangi, and Papa.
Wow, it must be lonely being one of the only smart guys in a world of dolts.
So I suppose Jewish people fall into that group for following the Torah?
.....Muslims for following the Koran?
....Buddists too?
...Native Americans....heck they don't even have a book.
...Better throw the Maori in for their belief in Po, Te Ata, Rangi, and Papa.
Wow, it must be lonely being one of the only smart guys in a world of dolts.
That's pretty much right. You've chosen to to adopt a arbitrary set of 'rules' about how you live your life based on a book which is supposedly the word of God. In doing so you, in a very real way, are divulging personal responsibility for your decisions and actions and replacing them with 'Jeezus said I should think this so I do.'Damn True said:
Yup. Fortunatly for me, in the more developed parts of the world, (i.e. most of the rest of the first world except the US) religious practice is falling. Actually it's pretty depressing that a huge section of the worlds population cannot see past the obvious flaws and ridiculousness of organised religion.
Oral history and tradition have been found to be a more accurate method recording facts than written text. It's common sense really. Just look at how difficult it is to communicate on the internet. I mean old text didn't even have the benefit of smilies. Tough stuff to do i don't envy the many that try to find.... whatever within text.Damn True said:
We all come from one people, our creator is the same, our perceptions are varied, takes volition to be balanced in all aspects of life.
i had a great talk with my Christian buddy a couple weeks back on issues of spirituality. He's almost a man without a church lately. He's a funny cat too, he even read the Mormon Bible so he could converse about it with his neighbor. haha.
He used to get pissed off too when i'd come up to him and say i want to attend his church giving him a desperate look. i would tell him i want to pray there. Then i'd smile and say pray on 16 year old virgins!!!! Haha
He's lightened up a tad since them days, and so have i. It's real easy to find differences, the beauty usually comes from the similarities.
Welp anyways where were we. Hmmm crack, yup nasty stuff, i would prefer coffee way over that stuff....
Damn True = Winner of this debate.
No they havent, dude. Not even close...Skookum said:
Damn True said:
Congrats. You've nicely bought into the Puritan view that people deserve to be in whatever situation they happen to be in.
Personally, I think spending money on technology to kill vast amounts of people is a waste...but I assume you don't agree with that...
Here is the difference: I'm willing to admit that there are some people who take advantage of the system, and I can live with that. You admit there are some people who are helped, but you're willing to screw them over because of the bad apples...right?
Just out of curiosity, what was line 60 in your 1040 last year? I just want to see if you have more to bitch about than I do. For all I know, I helped pay for your unemployed ass...
i'm sorry you're probably right.... hey i have an idea that'll make us a ton of dough but might very much prove me right. Let's try to write a version of the bible in instant messaging shorthand. Man could take us years, but what a challenge.....BurlySurly said:
I suck at that stuff, but if we could make david have pwn3d goliath, I guess Im down.Skookum said:
Yah this is the hard stuff here though....
"Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud." Proverbs 16:19)
B2B kickin in da hood JC wit poor ppl 0
than rippin off w/bosses. Prvbs 16:19
meh on second thought......
"Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud." Proverbs 16:19)
B2B kickin in da hood JC wit poor ppl 0
than rippin off w/bosses. Prvbs 16:19meh on second thought......
I said lack of hypocrisy and I was talking about atheism. Chill...Damn True said: