[Megan Black]

even if the guy is schizo, doesn't mean his theory isn't credible, he may be closer to knowing the "truth" than most of us

did someone say something sometime about how the line between genius and madness is a very thin one......don't quote me er nuthin

hey knuckle, c'mon, can you at least allude to what happened to change your perspective on life??

i'm veeeeery curious!

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Knuck,

You missed the point, I think. I did read a significant chunk from the link you provided.

Here's my cut:
- Whatever's "out there" is complex enough that we'll never encompass it.
- To deal with the universe, we build thought models which are modestly useful in predicting its behavior.
- Unfortunately, we tend to call the models laws, and forget or never learn their limitations. Try to use PV = NrT to predict whether your scuba tank will blow up in the hot trunk of your car - the equation's not valid at high pressures.
- Science grades models by testing them. Somebody makes an assertion about how the universe will behave under certain circumstances, and they or someone else try to set up the circumstances and observe whether the frog in fact jumps when poked.
- We all believe in some set of "laws" that in fact don't work. Sometimes we manage to test a few and discard them, mostly we don't. "If you go out in the rain without a hat, you'll catch a cold". "I can make everything in my house aseptic". "Jesus/Allah/Baal loves you".
- Some folks are suckers for truly loony "laws" and belief systems. They don't test, they just want a set of rules to follow so they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. They tend to be taken in by con artists and power freaks; reference Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the current crop of Republicans.

Back when I took quantum physics, a major reaction was that the models were too damn complex, that there had to be simpler models to deal with the same problems. There will certainly be more useful models as time goes along, but, for a given model, I'm not buying into it until people have reviewed and argued it, tested it, proved it useful, and determined its limitations.

J

 

[Knuckleslammer]

even if the guy is schizo, doesn't mean his theory isn't credible, he may be closer to knowing the "truth" than most of us

did someone say something sometime about how the line between genius and madness is a very thin one......don't quote me er nuthin

hey knuckle, c'mon, can you at least allude to what happened to change your perspective on life??

i'm veeeeery curious!

I haven't even told my wife. She just thinks a miracle has occured. I will tell you one thing. What happened to me is what lead me to start reading the stuff I've pointed you to. I'd be bashed to pieces on here if I told you what happened.

 

[JMAC]

ONE PHOTON WAS LAUNCHED 2 MILES LEFT AND ONE 2 MILES RIGHT IN A FIBER OPTIC CABLE. SCIENTISTS ALTERED THE PHOTON WHICH WAS LAUNCHED LEFT, YET THE ONE ON THE RIGHT, 4 MILES AWAY POSSESSED THE CHANGE AS WELL
THIS VIOLATES EINSTEINS LAW OF RELATIVITY, THAT LIGHT CAN TRAVEL NO MORE THAN 186,000 MPS
UNLESS THE HOLON PRINCIPLE IS ADDED
THEN, WE REALIZE THAT WE, IN 3D ARE ONLY PERCEIVING PART OF THE PHOTON IN VISUALITY, BUT IN ESSENCE, IT EXISTS AS A BIGGER WHOLE, PERHAPS AS ONE, THAT WE ARE UNAWARE OF, DUE TO THE LACK OF OUR PERCEPTION BEYOND OUR 3D REALM
FOCKING AWESOME HA?

Not to sure what to think about it but my grand father is always babbaling on about that stuff and he's a semi famous engineer, who works/worked world wide and knows loads of scientists. Anyways the fact that he believed that holon type thing makes me atleast have an open mind about it.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Knuck,

You missed the point, I think. I did read a significant chunk from the link you provided.

Here's my cut:
- Whatever's "out there" is complex enough that we'll never encompass it.
- To deal with the universe, we build thought models which are modestly useful in predicting its behavior.
- Unfortunately, we tend to call the models laws, and forget or never learn their limitations. Try to use PV = NrT to predict whether your scuba tank will blow up in the hot trunk of your car - the equation's not valid at high pressures.
- Science grades models by testing them. Somebody makes an assertion about how the universe will behave under certain circumstances, and they or someone else try to set up the circumstances and observe whether the frog in fact jumps when poked.
- We all believe in some set of "laws" that in fact don't work. Sometimes we manage to test a few and discard them, mostly we don't. "If you go out in the rain without a hat, you'll catch a cold". "I can make everything in my house aseptic". "Jesus/Allah/Baal loves you".
- Some folks are suckers for truly loony "laws" and belief systems. They don't test, they just want a set of rules to follow so they don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. They tend to be taken in by con artists and power freaks; reference Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the current crop of Republicans.

Back when I took quantum physics, a major reaction was that the models were too damn complex, that there had to be simpler models to deal with the same problems. There will certainly be more useful models as time goes along, but, for a given model, I'm not buying into it until people have reviewed and argued it, tested it, proved it useful, and determined its limitations.

J

I hear ya man. Your beyond me with the science stuff. I'm looking at it from a more holistic approach and without going into details I will say that on the holistic/spiritual level, Joaquim Wolf is on the money as far as I'm concerned.
Maybee he's is mentally deranged, but he's a nice guy, peaceful, down to earth and highly intellegent. I'm not saying he's Jesus, and I don't get into any of the scientology, buddah, christianity or anything. I don't fall easily for stuff without PHYSICAL, CONCRETE proof. However, having read about 35 books in the past 2 months, spending every waking moment on the internet, and looking for answers, talking to people and spending time with my daughter, Sabina, 7 as she has a lot to do with this, and with my nose in a book searching for the truth, this is as close as it gets for me anyway.
Knuck

 

[JMAC]

I hear ya man. Your beyond me with the science stuff. I'm looking at it from a more holistic approach and without going into details I will say that on the holistic/spiritual level, Joaquim Wolf is on the money as far as I'm concerned.
Maybee he's is mentally deranged, but he's a nice guy, peaceful, down to earth and highly intellegent. I'm not saying he's Jesus, and I don't get into any of the scientology, buddah, christianity or anything. I don't fall easily for stuff without PHYSICAL, CONCRETE proof. However, having read about 35 books in the past 2 months, spending every waking moment on the internet, talking to people and spending time with my daughter, Sabina, 7 as she has a lot to do with this, and with my nose in a book searching for the truth, this is as close as it gets for me anyway.
Knuck

Knuck

What do u do for a living?

 

[JMAC]

I'm all done with that sh*t tough guy. I'm all about the brain now and peace of mind. Rage has no place in my mind any longer. It ate me alive for a long time and I had something happen to me that I'd rather not explain as nobody would believe me anyhow and no, I don't do drugs, except for the occasional vicodin.

But anyhow, life is not how I want it to be right now. So, I'm doing the only think I know to make it better, and that is use the brain to figure out ways to make it better. There are ways to turn on certain regions of the brain that we don't normally use. There are ways to tap into the 90% dormancy as well. It's just that science has yet to accept this as fact, caus science has it's head up it's ass, just like the government and all the pill pushers out there. I'm not saying I dislike medicine. I take prilosec daily and I couldn't live without it. There comes a time though when people must realize that there is not a pill for everything. People must take responsibility for their own bodies and not live recklessly and rely on medicine constantly. Like the millions on prozac and whatnot. I was one of them. YOu want something? You have to try. I had depression. For years and years and years. I took all that crap. It robs you of your life. Think about it.

If you open up your mind and look at things in a different light, you can and will realize that you, yourself are amazing and have amazing potential. Potential to rid yourself of depression, anxiety, fear, low self esteem. Without polluting your body with psychoactive meds. People have given up faith in themselves though. I did, for a long time. Now, emerges the new an improved knuckle. Still a little off kilta, but that's what makes me special, ain't it? I make no sense whatsoever, do I?
:eviltongu

Actaully u do make sense. And I read the majority of that stuff same as a friend of mine. We're both convinced.

 

[lux]

I hear what your barkin out dog, I'm not hard core religious. I don't really take everything the bible says as the absolute word. The bible is sort of like this. You send a white dog with black spots though a room of 10 people, then ask the people what they saw. 2 will say "black dog with white spots" 2 will say "white dog with black spots" 2 will say "what dog" and the other 4 will say they saw a diety, start collecting money, and build a temple. I believe in Jesus and his message, just not a lot of the other stuff. It's just interesting to me to hear a scientific viewpoint on it. And you know what? Science is starting to realize as well that a lot of the new stuff they are discovering goes hand in hand with what the budists and all the rest of them have been saying for thousands of years. So who's really behind the 8 ball? Science or religion?

Knuck -- Don't know what happened to guide you down this new path, but I'm stoked you're headed that way. I don't post a lot here although I check in a few times a day. Because of where I am in my life now, there's not too much here I want to comment on/get involved with. I'm here for bikey stuff, and I read a ton of cool posts here about that.

Your post really caught my attention. Kinda blew me away, in fact. I can relate, I think, to where you're at. I've been on a spiritual path for a while now and the further along I get, the easier my life becomes. I'm no guru, I don't wear robes or chant, and as far as I can tell, I'm still an ordinary dude. I'm just not so pissed off, angry, sad, lonely, depressed, raging as I used to be.

I believe there is something greater than us that guides it all. I have no idea what that thing may be. I reckon the religious idea that we are created in it's image may be part of that same self-centeredness which used to believe the earth to be the hub of the universe. I can't imagine this greater thing to be anything we'll ever be able, in this lifetime, to understand or comprehend. A friend of mine paraphrased Issac Asimov for me from an essay he'd written on spirituality -- if I remember correctly, he wrote that for us to attemp to conceive of a higher power would be akin to asking an ape to conceive of what it was to be human. The ape, as far as we know, cannot possibly do this. It is out of the ape's realm of capacity to be human, therefore it cannot conceive of what it's like to be human.

Anyway, I digress. I agree though, that the more I become aligned with what that greater power has in store for me, the more rich my life becomes. And I'm not bashing anyone's belief in science, holistics, pragmatism, dogmatism or whatever one chooses. I can't possibly judge or comment on where anyone is in their lives, 'cause I'm not in their shoes. Just as I'd (hopefully) never tell anyone my way of living is right for anyone but me. If anyone asks, I'll share my experience, but I can't give it to anyone. Enlightenment is unique and personal and can come only from experience (not that I'm saying I'm enlightened -- just hope I'm headed that way).

The suffering we endure is what leads us, hopefully, to this path. And I hope your journey's an awesome one, Knuckleslammer.

p.s. You gonna change your handle? :devil:

 

[punkassean]

I'm all done with that sh*t tough guy. I'm all about the brain now and peace of mind. Rage has no place in my mind any longer. It ate me alive for a long time and I had something happen to me that I'd rather not explain as nobody would believe me anyhow and no, I don't do drugs, except for the occasional vicodin.

But anyhow, life is not how I want it to be right now. So, I'm doing the only think I know to make it better, and that is use the brain to figure out ways to make it better. There are ways to turn on certain regions of the brain that we don't normally use. There are ways to tap into the 90% dormancy as well. It's just that science has yet to accept this as fact, caus science has it's head up it's ass, just like the government and all the pill pushers out there. I'm not saying I dislike medicine. I take prilosec daily and I couldn't live without it. There comes a time though when people must realize that there is not a pill for everything. People must take responsibility for their own bodies and not live recklessly and rely on medicine constantly. Like the millions on prozac and whatnot. I was one of them. YOu want something? You have to try. I had depression. For years and years and years. I took all that crap. It robs you of your life. Think about it.

If you open up your mind and look at things in a different light, you can and will realize that you, yourself are amazing and have amazing potential. Potential to rid yourself of depression, anxiety, fear, low self esteem. Without polluting your body with psychoactive meds. People have given up faith in themselves though. I did, for a long time. Now, emerges the new an improved knuckle. Still a little off kilta, but that's what makes me special, ain't it? I make no sense whatsoever, do I?
:eviltongu

you might reconsider using drugs...

 

[scurban]

consider smoking some weed. It couldn't do anything but help you and your quest to make things right in this world.

 

[Toshi]

If you go back to Bohr and his compatriots, or Newton, there were a bunch of them who drifted off into metaphysical twaddle. It's easy to drift off from a useful train of thought and get lost.

I think your holon boy's past lost. Get too far into the loon theories and you can get too tangled up and lost to return.

Don't fall into the trap.

agreed. i'm happy that you've found peace, knuck, and it may well be by digesting this guy's writings. this does not mean that the writings are "science", rational, or logical. call them new age koans instead and i will be satisfied.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yeah, Im not buying what this guy's about. How do you go from alternate dimensions to the meaning of life with nothing but "everybody knows what a mother is" to fill the gap? And also, your perception of reality does not actually CHANGE reality. Like if you dont have legs, but never percieved that, you still wouldnt be able to walk. You'd just be an idiot who thought he could.

 

[Toshi]

Yeah, Im not buying what this guy's about. How do you go from alternate dimensions to the meaning of life with nothing but "everybody knows what a mother is" to fill the gap? And also, your perception of reality does not actually CHANGE reality. Like if you dont have legs, but never percieved that, you still wouldnt be able to walk. You'd just be an idiot who thought he could.

actually, in a limited sense our perception of reality can change reality. an example of this would be the effect of stress on disease progression... being stressed out won't give you cancer, but if you're stressed out and do get cancer it will progress faster than the baseline (statistically, over large groups, not for individuals, yadda yadda). neurotransmitters are chemicals after all, and living in a state of permastress scrwes the whole system up.

 

[BurlyShirley]

actually, in a limited sense our perception of reality can change reality. an example of this would be the effect of stress on disease progression... being stressed out won't give you cancer, but if you're stressed out and do get cancer it will progress faster than the baseline (statistically, over large groups, not for individuals, yadda yadda). neurotransmitters are chemicals after all, and living in a state of permastress scrwes the whole system up.

Well, if you're going to look at it like that, any emotion you have is going to have SOME effect on your body's actions. If you slump your shoulders because you're depressed, that's a biological equivalent of healing a disease when you're positive. That's not changing reality, thats a biological reaction to stimulus. Anything you do is changing reality in that sense.

 

[Skookum]

There's a song by Love and Rockets i really like. One of the lyrics in the song is Live a life you love, use a God you trust, and don't take it all too seriously. Pretty cool song on a pretty cool album, but unfortunately it was a little strong on the electronic drums....

 

[johnbryanpeters]

consider smoking some weed. It couldn't do anything but help you and your quest to make things right in this world.

Dead farking wrong, except for the stupid part.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Well I do believe to the core, that we are all interconnected. All of us. Black, white, blue, green, yellow, Hindu, Indian, Chinese, African, American. All universally connected down to the last cell. I'm convinced and even before I started with quantum metaphysics. We are here to help each other. Look at nature. If you really take a good look, you can see how it is all interconnected and there exists a delicate balance of give and take. If there were not, what would be left. Now take humanity. It has to co-exist with nature, right? Does humanity support the give and take relationship in harmony or disharmony with nature. Take a close look and ask yourself that question. I'm no greenpeace activist, I'm as guilty as the rest, STEADEE_CONSUMER. However, knowing what I know now, I would do things a hell of a lot different. We have grown apart from our inner self. Take a look at what you do and ask yourself if your really living "your life"
Is your inner reference point ego or your soul? Why is man killing man? What purpose does it serve. I look at all this stuff now and knowing what I know now, people just don't realize what the phuck is going on. Do you do for yourself? Or do you do for your perception of what you think others will see you for? This is not psychobabble, think about it? A lot are quick to criticize caus they know I'm right, at least about a lot of this common sense stuff. It's not rocket science, aside from quantum mechanics and metaphysics. People have just lost site of what they are, who they are and what they are doing. We are in a take take take state of mind and it is killing us. However like I said, I'm as guilty as all of you with your 3 bikes, 2 cars and all the other crap.

However, I have come to the conclusion that living in excess is only killing all of us. What to do about it? I don't know, but you have to disassociate yourself from the negative influences. Take a good look at the people you know. Are they at peace with themselves. Or are they like I was, full of hate and rage? Listen to what comes out of peoples mouths. Your perception of life, creates your reality. I'm absolutely convinced of this. Look at everything around you. Really open your eyes and listen to the message of the mass media. Listen to the negativity that abounds. Ask yourselves this question. Who really is the terrorist and who really is spreading fear. Sit with yourself and ask yourselves these very questions. Stop, look and listen. It's easy to just say all this stuff is crazy, but if you really look and understand what I'm trying to say, you know that I am right, it's just that a lot of people are quick to throw the blame upon somebody else for their unhappieness. You make your life. Everything is here, right in front of you for the taking. There is no need for misery. Really. Finally, if there is one thing I can tell everybody and I' tell everyone I see now this same thing. People have a general uneasieness about themselves in this age. Rightfully so. Number 1? Stop watching the television. It's SH*T. Stop watching the news. It's SH*T. Look at what you are exposing yourself to. You are being programmed, believe it or not. Not by harmless stuff like Orange County Choppers and shows that stimulate the mind. But the great majority is influencing you. What do you think happens when you hear death, mayhem, war, murder, rape, violence, over and over and over. YOur subconscious is listening. Be very careful what you feed it. In a final statement, I can guarantee everyone this one very statement. No matter what happens in your life, everything is always going to be alright, as there is no other way. Think about that and believe it. Things have happened in your life. Some bad, some worse than bad. Somehow you always come out on top again, somehow, someway. There is fear of the unknown. I lived it for 34 years and I think I was on a self-destructive path. I was given the ultimate gift anyone could be given. I don't talk about it because people are quick to point the finger of insanity. Am I nuts? No, take a look at what you are reading. There is nothing to be afraid of. Life is supposed to be fun. Create, help and learn to love those you hate. There is no other way.
Oh, and btw, I did start smokin sh*t again It use to make me think too much about my fears, so I stopped. Now, there is nothing really to think about.

Kevin

 

[splat]

Knuckles Contemplting his Holon this morning

 

[Knuckleslammer]

HA HA. Hey, I don't think those are cable satellites either Splat.

neaky:

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> However like I said, I'm as guilty as all of you with your 3 bikes, 2 cars and all the other crap.

However, I have come to the conclusion that living in excess is only killing all of us. What to do about it?

Careful - this line of thinking quickly leads to dropping out, moving to the deep dark woods, and living a subsistence existence in a yurt for the rest of your life.

NTTAWWT.

-S.S.-

 

[Shortbus]

Kevin, I couldn't agree MORE with you on the mass media and the FEAR feeding frenzy.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Kevin, I couldn't agree MORE with you on the mass media and the FEAR feeding frenzy.

I think this may be the Mother Of All Thread Resurrections.

I guess it's appropriate this time of year............

-S.S.-

 

[Knuckleslammer]

 

[SkaredShtles]

Knuck's back??

Hey Knuck - how's it been goin'??!?

-S.S.-

 

[Knuckleslammer]

what up my brothers

 

[I Are Baboon]

Dude, I thought you were in Haiti or something?

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Still on Earth. Sometimes

 

[LordOpie]

Dude, I thought you were in Haiti or something?

Banging the local chicks or hiding from the authorities?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i´d need my brain flooded with way too much dopamine before i can start seeing some scientifical rigor on that stuff....

 

[llkoolkeg]

Interesting thread. I've read that guy's holon stuff before and to me, it comes across as part L. Ron Hubband, part Carl Sagan and part Tom Wolfe. Whatever sparked your introspection must have been personally profound. I would caution against placing too many eggs in a single basket, though. Study other sources, find joy in the journey and don't expect concrete answers. Nobody leaves this life having figured it all out.

 

[Pau11y]

Is it me or does the first few posts of KnuckleSlammer & Toshi sounds/suggests something close to String theory? Quantum theory covers the remote movement thing, altho I'm not sure if it's ever been tested. I know from some ex-telecomes that they're exploring this for wireless info tx/rx. Quantum tunneling is already in use in some capacitors (no, not the flux capacitor).
But what someone said about the photon being a small part of a bigger whole is very consistant w/ some of the thinking in String theory.

Edit: I'm thinking of changing one of my majors (will be doing a dual Elec. Engineering and CompSci in Aug) to physics. This theory stuff is too friggin' kewl to be just a lay person trying to postulate on.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Is it me or does the first few posts of KnuckleSlammer & Toshi sounds/suggests something close to String theory?

the only similarity i saw on that, was the multidimensional world, and out theoritical inability to see outside our 3d....

 

[Knuckleslammer]

It's all wrong, I can tell you that. We can not measure what we can not perceive with our limited human senses. Science will never be in tune with true reality until we can step outside our 5 senses. That's what I've been working on almost the past year, development of the 6th sense. We have it when we are born, but our personal experiences, societal constraints and thoughts we form, take away from the pureness that we are born with. The outer world always reflects the inner world. The illumination of the inner world reveals the true Being and directly causes the knowledge to be experiential. Until that time, the seeker blindly searches the outer world for a truth which can never be other than a reflection.

Kevin

 

[narlus]

what happened to the bhutan trip? is that or was that a go?

 

[Knuckleslammer]

Well, my mind went, but my wife kinda wouldn't let my body go, um ya know?

Kevin

 

[lux]

...We can not measure what we can not perceive with our limited human senses...Until that time, the seeker blindly searches the outer world for a truth which can never be other than a reflection.

Kevin

Amen, brother.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Welcome back, Kevin, glad to hear you are still alive.

John

 

[splat]

Knucks , good to hear from you again!!

Just in time to bring that hollow point out for a ride.

 

[HTFR]

<sigh>

At least those were testable.......

-S.S.-

well they were not always 'testable'.


knuck, you are a solid dude, thinking can destroy some people, i think most people cant take a personal review and inspection and really see themselves, the different levels of self (assuming the non Buddhist view of no 'self').

i recommend checking out a guy called Terrence McKenna, he has some pretty interesting lectures, a bit tangential to whets going on in the article but.

if you can't find them i would be more then happy to send them to you in *.mp3 form, if you're interested, so if you have high speed i could msnIM them.

again there is always Aldus Huxley if you want to laugh at yourself, 'doors of perception; heaven and hell' can be found online. and point counter point is a great satire if you don’t take yourself to seriously.

 

[Repack]

Is that the same principle that quantum cryptography is based on?