And sick lowered hondas with high pitched exhaust.
Manimal SO wishes he worked in Arizona right now
- Thread starter kidwoo
- Start date
It does impact jobs though. If there are 150mm people legally in this country who can work, and we have near equal numbers of jobs, we're fine. Some people will end up doing low wage work that they do not like, but that's life.
If the number of potential employees (including illegals) is suddenly 200mm, there is competition for those jobs, and wages drop due to the glut of workers. If those 50mm illegal employees are not paying taxes, they have a, let's say, 15% lower wage threshold than someone here legally, paying taxes. If those 50mm people who would/could work, are no longer able to because the jobs were taken by illegals, they become wards of the state through welfare. The funds for welfare come from the taxes that are only being paid by 100mm people, because there is a smaller pool for the tax base, taxes have to be higher. Because taxes are higher, at the low wage level, illegals have an even larger advantage because they will work for less, adjusted for not taxes being paid.
The numbers are theoretical, but I hope you get the point.
What's with the millimeters?
thousand thousands, aka million. Pretty common financial nomenclature when discussing numbers in size over international borders.
Which is why we need to start enforcing immigration law via employers. If there were no demand for illegal labor, there would be no supply. Violating the constitution and harassing legal Latino citizens may make a teeny dent, but it's not coming anywhere near solving the problem. It's just making racist rednecks feel good about themselves and inconveniencing anyone with a decent tan.
i too was wondering wtf a 74* HA had to do w/ this thread.
This might be a classic "moderate" solution that would fix all the problems but it is impossible to achieve (like safe oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico), but I do advocate keeping out all illegals. If they ain't here, tough luck.
My man McCain agrees:
Part of the issue here is just how freaking difficult it is for illegals to become legal. Its expensive, (fees, classes, etc) time consuming and a bureaucratic mess. Imagine DMV times 1000. How is some poor bastard who doesnt speak English, is barely literate, and working himself to death in the orange groves going to wade through that mess? Where is a guy who wants to work hard and take care of his family going to find the time or money? I have a friend here in town who married a Brazilian woman, and the hoops and the money that they had to jump through to legalize the wife and daughter were un-fvcking-believable. Its no wonder so many people are here illegally, its so difficult as to make it almost impossible for the average, poor undereducated shmuck. Without the support of my friend, there is no way the woman would have been able to figure out or pay for all that crap and support herself and her daughter. IMHO if some one wants to be here, and wants to be legal and contribute to society, it needs to be a hell of a lot easier.
I like it!
I think he meant how difficult it is to obtain permanent legal residency, either from temporary residency or from one's native country. At least that's how I interpreted it based on his example.
Yeah, well, I was a bit confused by that. He clearly states "illegals."
Of course, for some people, illegal immigrants and legal immigrants/residents/workers are the same thing, so I figured maybe he was thinking that way. If he's saying US Citizenship and Immigration services and our legal procedures in general could use some, um, help, to put it lightly, well...yeah! Grass is green, too.
But cross into the country without permission (excepting perhaps minors brought in by guardians or parents), you should kiss any opportunity you have at future citizenship goodbye. If you don't respect the legal process, you shouldn't expect anything from it.
Of course, for some people, illegal immigrants and legal immigrants/residents/workers are the same thing, so I figured maybe he was thinking that way. If he's saying US Citizenship and Immigration services and our legal procedures in general could use some, um, help, to put it lightly, well...yeah! Grass is green, too.
But cross into the country without permission (excepting perhaps minors brought in by guardians or parents), you should kiss any opportunity you have at future citizenship goodbye. If you don't respect the legal process, you shouldn't expect anything from it.
Yeah, well, I was a bit confused by that. He clearly states "illegals."
Of course, for some people, illegal immigrants and legal immigrants/residents/workers are the same thing, so I figured maybe he was thinking that way. If he's saying US Citizenship and Immigration services and our legal procedures in general could use some, um, help, to put it lightly, well...yeah! Grass is green, too.
But cross into the country without permission (excepting perhaps minors brought in by guardians or parents), you should kiss any opportunity you have at future citizenship goodbye. If you don't respect the legal process, you shouldn't expect anything from it.
Of course, for some people, illegal immigrants and legal immigrants/residents/workers are the same thing, so I figured maybe he was thinking that way. If he's saying US Citizenship and Immigration services and our legal procedures in general could use some, um, help, to put it lightly, well...yeah! Grass is green, too.
But cross into the country without permission (excepting perhaps minors brought in by guardians or parents), you should kiss any opportunity you have at future citizenship goodbye. If you don't respect the legal process, you shouldn't expect anything from it.
I don't ever worry about carrying around my green card 100% of the time, and my birth certificate is in a safety deposit box. Hello, white privilege.
Even if an "eh" slips out, I still ain't getting confused for a stinky Mexican. No beaner shoes in my closet, either.
(I'm going to wait and see if Arizona cops start hassling all those white Canadians who come down for the winter...anyone want to bet on how many cases of that happening we see?)
Even if an "eh" slips out, I still ain't getting confused for a stinky Mexican. No beaner shoes in my closet, either.
(I'm going to wait and see if Arizona cops start hassling all those white Canadians who come down for the winter...anyone want to bet on how many cases of that happening we see?)
manzanas y naranjas
i must've missed that part where you tried that in the mexican interior or ciudad juarez
Perhaps I worded my argument poorly. I apologize for the confusion.
I think this is unrealistic. Lets take the average Rio Grande swimmer as an example, because lets face it, when the right talks about "immigration" what they really mean is "dirty Mexicans". I grew up in the orange belt of central California, and most of the Mexicans there were just there for the work. Most of them would really have rather been at home, in fact when the seasonal work is done, they go right back south. Now this is a multi-tiered issue in of it self. Growers are actively seeking to hire these because they can 1. Pay them less than minimum wage 2. Not have to worry about things like safe working conditions 3. the laborer doesn't push back or argue even if he’s getting screwed cause the grower will just call La Migra (this happens a lot) 4. The Mexicans work their balls of because they appreciate having the job. Most of them have families to feed. 5. You simply can't find white people willing to work in the orange groves when its 108 degrees. I know it, you know it. Even if you could its not a smart choice for the grower financially because of the issues I cited above. So part 1. Crack down on people hiring illegals. I can't speak for every business, but sure as isht every grower in the central valley knew the daily work crew they had hired and were paying cash too was fresh across the border. Part 2. Streamline the work visa process, with an opportunity to stay and become a citizen. The average field worker isn't the most educated guy, so make it so you don't need a law degree to work legally. In the case of the average central valley orange picker, most of them didn't want to stay anyway. Part 3. Is education and communication. Even if the process was simplified and streamlined most of these poor bastards aren't going to know about it anyway. Not a lot of internet access in central Michoacán. Somehow your going to have to make it common knowledge that not only does the U.S. appreciate and want you to be legal, but all you have to do is XXXX to be so. Part 4. The people here illegally lots of times don't have the luxury of waiting around for our convoluted, expensive, red tape fill bureaucracy. Its not that they don't respect the legal process, its that they don't have the luxury of waiting for it. They are out of work, have families, and are desperate. I believe if they could be here legally they would, if just to avoid the hassle. Most of these migrants are terrified of getting deported, simply because it means not feeding the family back home.
Now I recognize that I pretty much only address the issue of Mexicans in central CA here, but change "orange picking" to "lawn guy" and "California" to "Arizona" and you have the same issue.
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BTW, I have to say I love this new law.
I have never seen so many law enforcement figures and conservatives have to squirm under the TV's glaring light.
And on the other side, the rioting makes Latinos and liberals look like thugs, justifying the law.
I have never seen so many law enforcement figures and conservatives have to squirm under the TV's glaring light.
And on the other side, the rioting makes Latinos and liberals look like thugs, justifying the law.
It's easy to marginalize a group when there's no accountability for your actions.
just found a comic that illustrates the base issue pretty well:
Looks like a wonderful laissez faire federal government stepping aside, staying out of your life and respecting states rights sho nuff it does.
Yessiree, just like I like it. I don't need no federal government sticking its nose in states issues.
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While I agree that it's economically sound in some ways to import cheap labor, the costs to our society at large are just too great to continue to allow it to happen. No, you can't blame Jose the construction worker for doing what he can to find work, but you can blame every company out there unwilling to pay an honest wage for creating the idea of "jobs Americans wont do".
I mean, the whole idea is bull****.
Picking oranges isn't any harder than framing houses or laying brick and plenty of whites and other americans do those jobs just fine. Perhaps oranges just ought to be more expensive, or perhaps our government subsidies toward agriculture need to be more appropriately allocated. In any case, an honest days work ought to provide you with a roof over your head and enough food to eat... and maybe some healthcare too. The idea that it's seen as "degrading work" to get your hands dirty in our society is the worst byproduct of this whole imported labor mess. It used to be considered quite respectable to be a mason or a carpenter... now it's a job for the mexicans. Part of it is because we as a society have just gotten lazy, and part of it is because we've gotten greedy. Everyone wants a cushy job where they basically get paid a ton to do nothing... and then they don't want to pay sh*t for oranges. I can't imagine a system more destined for failure.
If what's important is the continued health of this country for future generations, I say start the deportations tomorrow. Pull out of Iraq and militarize the southern border. Get people out of the offices and back onto the job sites and into the fields. Open trade schools so kids actually learn how to do something... not go to college to be "video game programmers" and "photographers" or something else useless. (Yes I realize the world needs a few of these people but these are niche roles, not careers for your average person). Get woodshops back in highschools, teach machining, auto repair, all of that stuff.
If there are, ultimately jobs Americans still won't do or there is literally a labor shortage (picking oranges and lettuce), you give people work visas and do it the right way. It's not a path to citizenship.
The biggest issue for me, really is .. Why must we continue to increase the size of our population even in the face of dwindling natural resources? It's a never ending cycle... more people move here, so they need houses built, and malls to shop at. More land gets paved over and more coal gets burned... more cars on the road. Just cut that sh*t off man. These people come here and have 17 kids... what good does that do us?
I mean, the whole idea is bull****.
Picking oranges isn't any harder than framing houses or laying brick and plenty of whites and other americans do those jobs just fine. Perhaps oranges just ought to be more expensive, or perhaps our government subsidies toward agriculture need to be more appropriately allocated. In any case, an honest days work ought to provide you with a roof over your head and enough food to eat... and maybe some healthcare too. The idea that it's seen as "degrading work" to get your hands dirty in our society is the worst byproduct of this whole imported labor mess. It used to be considered quite respectable to be a mason or a carpenter... now it's a job for the mexicans. Part of it is because we as a society have just gotten lazy, and part of it is because we've gotten greedy. Everyone wants a cushy job where they basically get paid a ton to do nothing... and then they don't want to pay sh*t for oranges. I can't imagine a system more destined for failure.
If what's important is the continued health of this country for future generations, I say start the deportations tomorrow. Pull out of Iraq and militarize the southern border. Get people out of the offices and back onto the job sites and into the fields. Open trade schools so kids actually learn how to do something... not go to college to be "video game programmers" and "photographers" or something else useless. (Yes I realize the world needs a few of these people but these are niche roles, not careers for your average person). Get woodshops back in highschools, teach machining, auto repair, all of that stuff.
If there are, ultimately jobs Americans still won't do or there is literally a labor shortage (picking oranges and lettuce), you give people work visas and do it the right way. It's not a path to citizenship.
The biggest issue for me, really is .. Why must we continue to increase the size of our population even in the face of dwindling natural resources? It's a never ending cycle... more people move here, so they need houses built, and malls to shop at. More land gets paved over and more coal gets burned... more cars on the road. Just cut that sh*t off man. These people come here and have 17 kids... what good does that do us?
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werd. i spent several years of my life working in a nursery (plants, not babies) in 100% humidity at 100+ degrees for 10 hours a day. i also built pools in central florida for a while (glorified trench digger)....all jobs that the average 'merican feels is below them. we have our own native lower class workforce, they're called teenagers!
BurlyShirley;3442164Get people out of the offices and back onto the job sites and into the fields. Open trade schools so kids actually learn how to do something... not go to college to be "video game programmers" and "photographers" or something else useless.[/QUOTE said:
So you're saying focus enforcement against employers. We agree. (see my "plan" in my first post...having a viable guest worker program is an essential element of this. Note that "guest worker" status is itself not, however, a path to citizenship, but a mutually-beneficial arrangement. However, good standing as a guest worker should give you a leg up in a hopefully-streamlined naturalization process.)
Perhaps I worded my argument poorly. I apologize for the confusion.
I think this is unrealistic. Lets take the average Rio Grande swimmer...
But as part of the whole equation to make illegal immigration a less-attractive and viable option, excluding anyone found illegally in the US from future citizenship is incredibly easy and probably quite effective. Plus, it's entirely moral and sensible.
exactly! if you won't follow the rules as a non-citizen, why would you follow them as a citizen?!
alabama might be next:
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Why should any American want to take a job picking oranges etc when welfare will pay them more to stay home and pound out more little mouths for teh government cheese?
I toured a Tyson plant once as part of an interview for a supervisor position. I saw only 2-3 people working the lines that weren't hispanic of origin. My "kill" side tour guide told me "Make sure you smile or they'll think you're from INS."
I toured a Tyson plant once as part of an interview for a supervisor position. I saw only 2-3 people working the lines that weren't hispanic of origin. My "kill" side tour guide told me "Make sure you smile or they'll think you're from INS."
And how much do they pay?
Let them increase wages and they'll have plenty of native workers. Of course it's better to hire foreign workers, give them symbolic wage and blabber around how lazy locals are. In addition you make less brighter locals think that everything is foreigners' fault. Everything for some extra $$$
I'm amazed that "Seal the border and America for Americans" Conservative The_Joker beat out "Cheap and possibly illegal labor is a capitalist's Constitutional right" Wall Street The_Joker. Care to carry that analogy over to companies that outsource jobs overseas?
I bet old Jim-Bobs daddy wore a few white sheets in his time. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Puk gai, gwai lo
lip service, or pragmatism? only time will tell:
but, outsourcing is so '90s - now it's all "in house" at their overseas location. just ask my previous employer
last year i was pullin' down $2k/mo for 1/2 the year, and *no one* asked me for validity. if i didn't get picked up, bennies would've lasted 99 weeks. if that would have run out, there's still more programs to keep me afloat, and nothing to properly motivate me to get back in the game. it's quite easy to see how you can get rather comfortable living in teh gov't basement w/o accountability. and if i had a functional hu-hu, i'd have 2 reasons to stay home
to be sure, it's a knife's edge.I'm amazed that "Seal the border and America for Americans" Conservative The_Joker beat out "Cheap and possibly illegal labor is a capitalist's Constitutional right" Wall Street The_Joker. Care to carry that analogy over to companies that outsource jobs overseas?
but, outsourcing is so '90s - now it's all "in house" at their overseas location. just ask my previous employer
Does that come with spring rolls?
I predict this guy gets caught leaving a cheap motel with Lindsay Graham.
So the national GOP is looking to distance themselves as much as possible from the AZ legislation, to the point that Karl Rove actually agrees with Obama...
Question, will this hurt the GOP nationally? Could this hurt Rubio's chances in FL if a large number of Cubans realize that the GOP is engaging in (not so) veiled racism? Obviously for the GOP it's a bad PR move, but I'm wondering whether this is actually going to cause a HUGE voting bloc to vote almost 100% Democrat in November? Suddenly the Democrat Goddard is actually LEADING the race there, which is pretty amazing.
As for the possibility of immigration reform legislation, anybody think that the Dems might just put forth the EXACT legislation that McCain championed 4 years ago and watch him squirm? I mean, in the end I doubt that he'd have any qualms about claiming "circumstances have changed, and so have my opinions", but it would be awfully fun to watch.
Question, will this hurt the GOP nationally? Could this hurt Rubio's chances in FL if a large number of Cubans realize that the GOP is engaging in (not so) veiled racism? Obviously for the GOP it's a bad PR move, but I'm wondering whether this is actually going to cause a HUGE voting bloc to vote almost 100% Democrat in November? Suddenly the Democrat Goddard is actually LEADING the race there, which is pretty amazing.
As for the possibility of immigration reform legislation, anybody think that the Dems might just put forth the EXACT legislation that McCain championed 4 years ago and watch him squirm? I mean, in the end I doubt that he'd have any qualms about claiming "circumstances have changed, and so have my opinions", but it would be awfully fun to watch.
thankfully, most americans realized this isn't about racism, which is a canard, a red herring, a false flag.
if gooks or krauts or dots were cuttin' the line & pouring over our borders the same action would be taken.