[MikeD]

thankfully, most americans realized this isn't about racism, which is a canard, a red herring, a false flag.

if gooks or krauts or dots were cuttin' the line & pouring over our borders the same action would be taken.

What about the creeps with, like, the big feathered headdresses and those cone-shaped leather tents? Who are they again?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

What about the creeps with, like, the big feathered headdresses and those cone-shaped leather tents? Who are they again?

The Burundians?? Is that it?!?

 

[$tinkle]

What about the creeps with, like, the big feathered headdresses and those cone-shaped leather tents? Who are they again?

redskins? braves? chiefs? hawkeyes? seminoles? blackhawks?

i find it odd the feigned apoplexy over supposed racism when we're going through what the euros have gone through, and *again* what mexico has gone through.

i will give no quarter to any argument this is primarily about racism

 

[rockofullr]

redskins? braves? chiefs? hawkeyes? seminoles? blackhawks?

i find it odd the feigned apoplexy over supposed racism when we're going through what the euros have gone through, and *again* what mexico has gone through.

i will give no quarter to any argument this is primarily about racism

Ok stink, you're right it's not racism it's xenophobia.

Just as ridiculous and useless.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Ok stink, you're right it's not racism it's xenophobia.

Just as ridiculous and useless.

It isn't always.
I have relatives in the construction field (union members) in the Chicago area who can't find work right now, as all the job sites are full of migrant workers. Whether they are here legally or not, I understand their frustration.

 

[$tinkle]

Ok stink, you're right it's not racism it's xenophobia.

Just as ridiculous and useless.

so you think we should have open borders? ignore laws on the books? tell arizonans to htfu?

the way i see it, this new AZ law doesn't undermine the fed'l gov't (like marijuana laws do), but rather in *reinforces* it.

do you not see that?

 

[Silver]

i will give no quarter to any argument this is primarily about racism

And the first time I get asked to show my green card during a random stop in Arizona, I'll come on here and agree with you.

 

[$tinkle]

And the first time I get asked to show my green card during a random stop in Arizona, I'll come on here and agree with you.

i anticipate we'll never get that opportunity, as you'll never be randomly stopped.

you *do* get this is a rider to a typical traffic stop involving probable cause, right? what cop wouldn't already be asking one or more occupants for ID -- oh sorry -- "papers"?

and i wonder who among us believe that obama in jingoistic or racist when he says they should be required to register, get in the back of the line, & learn english. i bet you'd say buchanan is, but not obama...now why is that...hmmm...

 

[Silver]

i anticipate we'll never get that opportunity, as you'll never be randomly stopped.

you *do* get this is a rider to a typical traffic stop involving probable cause, right? what cop wouldn't already be asking one or more occupants for ID -- oh sorry -- "papers"?

and i wonder who among us believe that obama in jingoistic or racist when he says they should be required to register, get in the back of the line, & learn english. i bet you'd say buchanan is, but not obama...now why is that...hmmm...

No, because what will happen is that I'll get pulled over, cop will see a white guy and won't ask.

The GOP really needs to stop pretending that they aren't institutional racists. Embrace it, because no one is buying the charade anymore.

 

[dante]

i anticipate we'll never get that opportunity, as you'll never be randomly stopped.

you *do* get this is a rider to a typical traffic stop involving probable cause, right? what cop wouldn't already be asking one or more occupants for ID -- oh sorry -- "papers"?

and i wonder who among us believe that obama in jingoistic or racist when he says they should be required to register, get in the back of the line, & learn english. i bet you'd say buchanan is, but not obama...now why is that...hmmm...

Point out in the bill where it states that officers can not stop individuals based purely on their reasonable suspicion that they appear to be an illegal alien. Because from what I've read, it's that police are required to check residency "where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States."

There's isn't anything in it that police *can't* stop you solely for being "reasonably suspicious" that you're an illegal.

 

[$tinkle]

No, because what will happen is that I'll get pulled over, cop will see a white guy and won't ask.

if you can't speak english, i imagine you'll raise suspicions

Point out in the bill where it states that officers can not stop individuals based purely on their reasonable suspicion that they appear to be an illegal alien. Because from what I've read, it's that police are required to check residency "where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States."

There's isn't anything in it that police *can't* stop you solely for being "reasonably suspicious" that you're an illegal.

so glad you ax'd

"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…"

do you really think they'd draft a bill that didn't anticipate being challenged by the open borders crowd?

what exactly do you find constitutionally objectionable about this legislation? no one has answered this question yet. and i remind you it's been ~70 yrs that fed'l law has been in effect that legal residents (or non-citizens if you like) shall have in their possession at all times documentation proving their immigration status.

 

[Pesqueeb]

thankfully, most americans realized this isn't about racism, which is a canard, a red herring, a false flag.

if gooks or krauts or dots were cuttin' the line & pouring over our borders the same action would be taken.

Oh please, let me take a minute to raise my bullsh*t flag.

If it were the "krauts" or any blond hair blue eye from norther Europe this would be such a non-issue. 95% of these so called immigration-reformists wouldn't give a isht. What this is really about is keeping out people with too much pigment. Its fear of the loss of white entitlement. "Hey look, them boys is diffrnt! Get em'!"

Now I'm not saying there are no legitimate concerns or issues to be addressed here, but please, to insinuate that race isn't the main drive here is terribly naive.

 

[$tinkle]

If it were the "krauts" or any blond hair blue eye from norther Europe this would be such a non-issue.

for you to believe this, you have to simultaneously believe 'white amrikkka' would turn a blonde eye when the marauding hordes saturate the illegal drug market, cause such a financial burden as to close down border hospitals, make neighborhoods generally less safe, and have wanton & reckless disregard for the law, & flatly dismiss our culture (which is ironic, seeing how there's very little that's uniquely american - e pluribus unum)

and let me further guess: you probably think i'm talking about browns in general, even though i've stated numerous times it's about illegal immigrants, who constantly demonstrate no inkling to assimilate.

i just want for them to do what obama says:
- register
- get in line
- learn english

Now I'm not saying there are no legitimate concerns or issues to be addressed here, but please, to insinuate that race isn't the main drive here is terribly naive.

and then to give obama a pass on the above 3 is racist, b/c he's just saying what "whitey" has been saying all along.

i cannot be convinced this is mainly a racist issue any more than i can be convinced mexicans are lesser people.

 

[sanjuro]

Don't forget this is the state that ended MLK's birthday as a state holiday...

 

[Pesqueeb]

Listen, I'm not saying I don't think immigration reform needs to happen, because it does. I think we disagree only on the nuances when it comes down to it. I do say register, learn english and assimilate to some degree. My main point, is that the reason this is such a huge issue is because of skin color, I don't believe for a minute that this would be a national discussion if we were talking about Aryans. so yes, I do believe

'white amrikkka' would turn a blonde eye when the marauding hordes saturate the illegal drug market, cause such a financial burden as to close down border hospitals, make neighborhoods generally less safe, and have wanton & reckless disregard for the law, & flatly dismiss our culture

Also the implication that being brown isn't reason enough to get you pulled over is . Any cop worth his salt can find a reason to pull anyone over. Cops are taught this. My dad used to be a cop and what they called it was "JDLR" for "Just don't look right". Now, this isn't just necessarily racial profiling as much as a good cop develops instincts that set off little alarm bells that something is up. My point here however is that if some cop just wants to pull over a car load of brownskins, he/she will find/makeup a reason.

 

[$tinkle]

daily show funneh:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-26-2010/law---border

"arizona: the meth lab of democracy"

 

[BurlyShirley]

Listen, I'm not saying I don't think immigration reform needs to happen, because it does. I think we disagree only on the nuances when it comes down to it. I do say register, learn english and assimilate to some degree. My main point, is that the reason this is such a huge issue is because of skin color,

Disagree. I think jobs is the main factor.

I think that skin color obviously makes them easy to identify, and that sucks from a civil rights standpoint, but is actually handy from an enforcement point of view.

 

[Westy]

I don't know about skin color, but I'd pull over anyone driving a Toyota Tercel, Nissan Sentra and short guys wearing a cowboy hats, actually anyone wearing a cowboy hat.

 

[$tinkle]

I don't know about skin color, but I'd pull over anyone driving a Toyota Tercel, Nissan Sentra and short guys wearing a cowboy hats, actually anyone wearing a cowboy hat.

my neighbor a few houses up - name is "something"-O (ernesto maybe?) offered to buy my toyota sr5 p/u & take it back to his "ranch" in mexico. his house is in foreclosure & can't sell it (no significant landscaping bidness here)

more goodness: http://oddee.com/item_96917.aspx

 

[valve bouncer]

I live in a country that requires legal foreign residents to be able to prove their legal status at all times and can confirm that the cops do indeed use it as a tool to hassle and intimidate certain unfavoured groups. I, as a personal act of civil disobedience, refuse to carry my "foreigner's card" as I find the requirement onerous. I suggest the legal foreign residents of Arizona adopt the same stance. Legal residents should not have to be constantly in the position of having to affirm their legal status. It's burdensome in its obligation, unconscionable in its morality and racist in its implementation.

 

[Westy]

As a foreigner you are required to have your legal documentation available in the US. The problem is that citizens ain't gotta prove ****. Makes it hard to tell the citizens from the illegals. A nice simple solution is to just make whiteness a requirement for legal residency. Brown folks didn't do all the work killing off all the reds to make room for this country, why should they enjoy it?

 

[Dartman]

As a foreigner you are required to have your legal documentation available in the US. The problem is that citizens ain't gotta prove ****. Makes it hard to tell the citizens from the illegals. A nice simple solution is to just make whiteness a requirement for legal residency. Brown folks didn't do all the work killing off all the reds to make room for this country, why should they enjoy it?

Hoping this is sarcasm.

 

[kidwoo]

Hoping this is sarcasm.

Nah. Westy's a racist dick. Back when he first joined RM he used to post pics of his fraternity in south carolina. Sheets and pointy hats everywhere.

 

[Westy]

Nah. Westy's a racist dick. Back when he first joined RM he used to post pics of his fraternity in south carolina. Sheets and pointy hats everywhere.

Excuse me. We used tailored virgin white cotton linens, not ****ing sheets. We gave the used sheets for the servants to wear during the ceremonies. We couldn't be expected to get our own drinks. Unless you really looked into the eye-holes or gave them a racially biased aptitude test you couldn't tell who they were anyway. The biggest problem was them breathing up all of our air.

 

[dante]

AZ modifies the law to make it slightly less racist, including some of the points that were noted above in this thread:

Changes to the bill language will actually remove the word "solely" from the sentence, "The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."

and

Another change replaces the phrase "lawful contact" with "lawful stop, detention or arrest" to apparently clarify that officers don't need to question a victim or witness about their legal status.

 

[$tinkle]

"lawful contact" with "lawful stop, detention or arrest"

help me out here rm LEOs, but in practice, aren't these 2 indistinguishable?

 

[X3pilot]

"lawful contact" with "lawful stop, detention or arrest"

help me out here rm LEOs, but in practice, aren't these 2 indistinguishable?

Lawful contact is interaction that would have happened anyway, i.e questioning as a potential witness, asking if one has seen anything suspious during an investigation, or just walking down the street and talking with someone.

lawful stop,detention or arrest is what it says.

(Note: I am not a LEO))

Link

 

[dante]

"lawful contact" with "lawful stop, detention or arrest"

help me out here rm LEOs, but in practice, aren't these 2 indistinguishable?

According to Sean Hannity they're indistinguishable. According to everyone else that's not a right-wing conservative..........

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290024 (yes, it's mediamatters, but there was this from the Tuscon Police Chief (as well as other legal experts):

Mr. VILLASENOR: Well, I think it says that you can't use race or ethnicity solely as the means of making that determination. I think that there will be an element of that that's looked at. And I think where a lot of people are getting confused is those instances where we stop someone for a criminal violation, we have some reason for that stop and that contact, but I don't believe that's what we're talking about in regard to this law.

This law is talking about in the course of any legal contact, as well as when we talk to a witness of a crime or when we talk to a victim of a crime. Those are legal contacts of law enforcement. Now we look at it in the context of those legal contacts.

If in the course of them, we develop reasonable suspicion that the individual we're talking with is illegally in the country, we are mandated to take enforcement action. That's where the questions are coming up is how do you develop that reasonable suspicion that they're in the country illegally if they're there talking to you just about being a victim of a crime. [All Things Considered, 4/26/10

edit: Although there is this from the ever-nonpartisan washingtonexaminer:

What fewer people have noticed is the phrase "lawful contact," which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."

And why exactly might Kobach be misrepresenting the bill??? From further down in the article:

Kobach, a Republican who is now running for Kansas Secretary of State...

Oh, that's why. It's definitely a little clearer now.

 

[manimal]

According to Sean Hannity they're indistinguishable. According to everyone else that's not a right-wing conservative..........

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290024 (yes, it's mediamatters, but there was this from the Tuscon Police Chief (as well as other legal experts):



edit: Although there is this from the ever-nonpartisan washingtonexaminer:



And why exactly might Kobach be misrepresenting the bill??? From further down in the article:



Oh, that's why. It's definitely a little clearer now.

that clears things up for me as well. the media has been reporting this as a "stop all brown people" instead of what it really is; a mandate for all LEO's to dig deeper into a person's residency status if they are involved in a crime, or other reason that would lawfully warrant police contact.

 

[ohio]

I'm gonna go try and make some unlawful contact, tonight.

Have a good weekend, bitches

 

[kidwoo]

I'm gonna go try and make some unlawful contact, tonight.

Have a good weekend, bitches

This post was at 9:19.

The high schools got out 5 fvcking hours ago. What's this "I'm gonna" crap?

 

[$tinkle]

maybe we should have lazy reform: merely reciprocate the country of origin's process. short shrift? sure; but dictionary definition fair.

and it would make our current process to be humanitarian by comparison, esp wrt mexico

this.

Rupert Knox, Amnesty's Mexico researcher, said in the report that the failure by authorities to tackle abuses against migrants has made their trip through Mexico one of the most dangerous in the world.

"Migrants in Mexico are facing a major human rights crisis leaving them with virtually no access to justice, fearing reprisals and deportation if they complain of abuses," Knox said.

Central American migrants are frequently pulled off trains, kidnapped en masse, held at gang hideouts and forced to call relatives in the U.S. to pay off the kidnappers. Such kidnappings affect thousands of migrants each year in Mexico, the report says.

Many are beaten, raped or killed in the process.

One of the main issues, Amnesty says, is that migrants fear they will be deported if they complain to Mexican authorities about abuses.

At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues."

 

[Silver]

this.

Again, nice to see the calibration on your moral compass...

 

[sanjuro]

Mexico should build a fence on its southern border...

 

[$tinkle]

Again, nice to see the calibration on your moral compass...

right ascension...15 degrees...


private joker: "how can you shoot women & children?"
door gunner: "you just don't lead them as much"

 

[jimmydean]

Phoenix Suns to wear 'Los Suns' on jerseys on Cinco de Mayo - ESPN

Kewl.

The Phoenix Suns will wear "Los Suns" on their jerseys in Game 2 of the Western Conference semifinals on Wednesday night, owner Robert Sarver said, "to honor our Latino community and the diversity of our league, the state of Arizona, and our nation."

The decision to wear the jerseys on the Cinco de Mayo holiday stems from a law passed by the Arizona Legislature and signed by Gov. Jan Brewer that has drawn widespread criticism from Latino organizations and civil rights groups that say it could lead to racial profiling of Hispanics. President Barack Obama has called the law "misguided."

 

[dante]

Can't wait till police are going to have even MORE excuses to "interact" with the hispanic population...

 

[sanjuro]

I bet he is glad he doesn't work in Seattle...

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/seattle-detective-shandy-cobane-apologizes-for-racial-epithet-beating/19469856?ncid=webmaildl1

 

[Silver]

I bet he is glad he doesn't work in Seattle...

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/seattle-detective-shandy-cobane-apologizes-for-racial-epithet-beating/19469856?ncid=webmaildl1

Video doesn't tell the whole story...

 

[DaveW]

Oh and whats your take on what happened Silver?