[Serial Midget]

Just curious, how much room for negotiation is there off your typical MSRP these days? Does anyone pay retail for a factory spec bike?

The discount sellers on line seem to have their own value builds that don't stack up against a factory build, I've also noticed that ebay resellers seldom have factory builds and list their offerings as custom builds which makes me suspicious.

Thoughts?

 

[Nick]

negotiation depends on the market, imo.

did you decide on a bike? what is it? lots of potential shop hook ups here. let the power of the work it's magic.

 

[Serial Midget]

negotiation depends on the market, imo.

did you decide on a bike? what is it? lots of potential shop hook ups here. let the power of the work it's magic.

Depending on out the door price either a Giant XTC Advanced if I have to pay full retail or possibly the SL if the price is right. Both would have to be ordered locally.

I've decided 27.5 is the wheel size for me but I am still open on frame, I decided against full suspension as overkill for where I ride. I like speed and climbing. I don't like maintenance.

 

[cecil]

I personally saw the screen on the the local special Ed dealer computer the stumpjumper fsr expert 650b retails at $5900 dealer cost was $4100

I don't care if anyone gets pissed at me this bike shop has the rudest ENTITLED douche bags wearing their kits they are above any person on the trail if they come up on you during their group ride 6-8 of them at a time they start yelling "YEILD TO THE SUPERIOR RIDERS!!"

Yes people should be able to make money at their business these people are trash

 

[Wumpus]

I personally saw the screen on the the local special Ed dealer computer the stumpjumper fsr expert 650b retails at $5900 dealer cost was $4100

So what you are saying is that margin is small?

I know Specialized usually has a low number that a shop can sell at -- somewhere between 7 and 10% depending on the bike.

 

[Serial Midget]

I figured a healthy margin would about 33%, which is a lot better than a car dealership. My former dealer never sold built bikes for MSRP but somehow has mad a decent living for 30 plus years. He works his shop every day, my new LBS's owner does not work the shop, he has a series of employees that come and go pretty qiuickly.

 

[Westy]

I figured a healthy margin would about 33%, which is a lot better than a car dealership. My former dealer never sold built bikes for MSRP but somehow has mad a decent living for 30 plus years. He works his shop every day, my new LBS's owner does not work the shop, he has a series of employees that come and go pretty qiuickly.

The real profit for a bike shop is in selling tubes and maintenance. One of the more successful shops in the area sells bikes at 10% over cost for anyone on their "team". Bro pricing is the same as team pricing and if you've been riding for more than a year, your a bro. Most team members and bros are dentists who shriek at the thought of getting greasy chain marks on their kits. The shop has a small army of mechanics charging dentists good money to adjust shifters and replace chains.

 

[Serial Midget]

The real profit for a bike shop is in selling tubes and maintenance. One of the more successful shops in the area sells bikes at 10% over cost for anyone on their "team". Bro pricing is the same as team pricing and if you've been riding for more than a year, your a bro. Most team members and bros are dentists who shriek at the thought of getting greasy chain marks on their kits. The shop has a small army of mechanics charging dentists good money to adjust shifters and replace chains.

I'm down with this but not because of greasy skid marks on my kit, I can do minor ajustments, change out or shorten a chain, install just about everything except a bottom bracket, cassette and head set but I do prefer dropping the bike off in the morning and picking it up that afternoon from a shop that does better work than I do.

Once you are situated in Waskington and are looking to do a little clam digging along the coast, you'll need to stop into LaVoque's bicycle shop in Hoquiam, the manager, mechanic and salesman is Terry. He will blow you away with his knowledge of bicycle engineering and technical know how off all things bike. If I decide to get a Giant I will order through him and pay to have it shipped.

 

[stevew]

"YEILD TO THE SUPERIOR RIDERS!!"

a cure for this is a well placed kick to front tire or frame as you yield to them....if you get the first one....chances are the others will pile into him.

 

[jonKranked]

The real profit for a bike shop is in selling tubes and maintenance.

and accessories. margins on accessories are better than bikes.

 

[Westy]

You mean that 3 lb tub of sugar and salt doesn't cost $60?

Incomprehensibru.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

thanks to some weird-ass laws in Peru, I was able to collect actual FOB prices from the factory to the distribuitors (as declared in custom forms by the distribuitors) for several high end bikes. (this information is public domain, by law , in here; though you have to pay a few thousand bucks to get it).

I did this about a year ago... prices as I recall:

2014 Scott LT 700 tuned. MSRP in the US: $9500
Factory wholesale price US$3131, FOB.

2014 Scott Gambler 30, FOB $1491

now.... let the haaaate flow.....

 

[syadasti]

There's not a general rule, it can vary significantly by brand and/or line.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I figured a healthy margin would about 33%, which is a lot better than a car dealership. My former dealer never sold built bikes for MSRP but somehow has mad a decent living for 30 plus years. He works his shop every day, my new LBS's owner does not work the shop, he has a series of employees that come and go pretty qiuickly.

Industry Secret: Bike shops make a fortune on bikes. Bike shop owners are basically poorly dressed dentists.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Industry Secret: Bike shops make a fortune on bikes. Bike shop owners are basically poorly dressed dentists.

bike shops have a huge overhead, and the sales are seasonal.
cant survive on <20% margins... unless you move a lot of high end bikes...

 

[stoney]

Depending on how expensive the bike is you might get some flexibility, but not likely. As everybody has mentioned, profits come from service and accessories. Bike sales are just to get you to come back later for that stuff. Once you start getting into the $4k+ range you might get a $100-200 flex, but I wouldn't expect more. I think I've pulled $600 off a $10k tri bike before, but nothing on a bike less than $3k.

 

[syadasti]

Depending on how expensive the bike is you might get some flexibility, but not likely. As everybody has mentioned, profits come from service and accessories. Bike sales are just to get you to come back later for that stuff. Once you start getting into the $4k+ range you might get a $100-200 flex, but I wouldn't expect more. I think I've pulled $600 off a $10k tri bike before, but nothing on a bike less than $3k.

It still really varies. One year I ordered a top of the line new for the new MY bike from one of the most popular LBS brands right after Interbike with a MSRP of $5650 and paid $4500 excluding tax or shipping.

 

[Serial Midget]

Industry Secret: Bike shops make a fortune on bikes. Bike shop owners are basically poorly dressed dentists.

Business in general secret: no one thinks their margins are high enough but any business that nets 12 to 15% EBIT has nothing to complain about. With the glut of product available and an increasing number of places to buy I have no reason not to shop around for the best deal.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Business in general secret: no one thinks their margins are high enough but any business that nets 12 to 15% EBIT has nothing to complain about. With the glut of product available and an increasing number of places to buy I have no reason not to shop around for the best deal.

true story.

 

[Beef Supreme]

bike shops have a huge overhead, and the sales are seasonal.
cant survive on <20% margins... unless you move a lot of high end bikes...

I was joking. I used to own a shop. It's a pretty tough business.

 

[Da Peach]

Not going he used route, eh?

Less headaches, potentially, I suppose.

Unless you have a rapport with a shop already, it they're already offering you a good deal, its a crapshoot.

My experiences have varied greatly with service at shops, so having them "at the ready" to fix up your new bike for you may not be worth a whole lot.

I bought a demo bike and was pretty happy at first. As the bike had aged, I'm less and less satisfied with the level of bro-dom I'm given at the shop, (quick service, done by the good mech) so my loyalty has waned.

I say get a good used bike and get a @big-ted equuvalent to keep it running for you. Helps brig you up to speed on how to fix shiz yourself too.

 

[rideit]

Another ex-shop owner here. The mount of bikes that actually leave the shop at full MSRP is shockingly low, in my case maybe 20% of them. You have to simply guess what sizes of bikes you think will sell, the truly desirable bikes are usually sold out by the time you start actually selling them in May/June or so.
Overhead on inventory is a bitch!

 

[Serial Midget]

Not going he used route, eh?

Less headaches, potentially, I suppose.

I have bought lots of used frames and had great luck but I have never bought any other bike component used before. So do I really want to buy a used fork, drive train and brakes? The answer is no. I have 2 older complete XT kits that are perfectly fine - between them they have been on 5 frames and are still good but will not work with what I want now... 27.5 with a 1X10.

Also... somewhere on ebay now is a small carbon FSR "demo" bike with"less than 50 miles" on it. The bike looks awesome and clean and I'd almost buy the story except for the image of the chain which is caked with grime.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I have bought lots of used frames and had great luck but I have never bought any other bike component used before. So do I really want to buy a used fork, drive train and brakes? The answer is no. I have 2 older complete XT kits that are perfectly fine - between them they have been on 5 frames and are still good but will not work with what I want now... 27.5 with a 1X10.

Also... somewhere on ebay now is a small carbon FSR "demo" bike with"less than 50 miles" on it. The bike looks awesome and clean and I'd almost buy the story except for the image of the chain which is caked with grim.

That grim will get you every time.

 

[jstuhlman]

I can put a lot of grim on a chain in 50 miles.

Not going he used route, eh?

Less headaches, potentially, I suppose.

Unless you have a rapport with a shop already, it they're already offering you a good deal, its a crapshoot.

My experiences have varied greatly with service at shops, so having them "at the ready" to fix up your new bike for you may not be worth a whole lot.

I bought a demo bike and was pretty happy at first. As the bike had aged, I'm less and less satisfied with the level of bro-dom I'm given at the shop, (quick service, done by the good mech) so my loyalty has waned.

I say get a good used bike and get a @big-ted equuvalent to keep it running for you. Helps brig you up to speed on how to fix shiz yourself too.

this is about 100% my MO.

 

[rockofullr]

I have bought lots of used frames and had great luck but I have never bought any other bike component used before. So do I really want to buy a used fork, drive train and brakes? The answer is no. I have 2 older complete XT kits that are perfectly fine - between them they have been on 5 frames and are still good but will not work with what I want now... 27.5 with a 1X10.

Those bastards finally won.

 

[Serial Midget]

Those bastards finally won.

It was a compromise... not a complete loss. I was swayed by the angle of attack data, as a confirmed curb hucker - I am intrigued.

 

[Westy]

It was a compromise... not a complete loss. I was swayed by the angle of attack data, as a confirmed curb hucker - I am intrigued.

27.5" is a marketing ruse. It has an approach angle closer to a 26" wheel, but most of the weight/inertia of a 29" wheel. Makes even less sense on a hardtail.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

The real profit for a bike shop is in selling tubes and maintenance. One of the more successful shops in the area sells bikes at 10% over cost for anyone on their "team". Bro pricing is the same as team pricing and if you've been riding for more than a year, your a bro. Most team members and bros are dentists who shriek at the thought of getting greasy chain marks on their kits. The shop has a small army of mechanics charging dentists good money to adjust shifters and replace chains.

Seen similar scenarios here, or at least you've explained the plethora of racer kit/skinsuit clad noobs who cruise the easiest trails with an air of grand entitlement.

 

[Westy]

Seen similar scenarios here, or at least you've explained the plethora of racer kit/skinsuit clad noobs who cruise the easiest trails with an air of grand entitlement.

As much as I have bitched, peoples attitude on the trails are generally pretty good here. None of the "pro rider back" bullshit I hear elsewhere. However people do love their kits. Buddy of mine started a sock company. Bunch of people have jumped on it. I almost feel bad for not supporting him, but I have no room in my life for fancy socks. I have about 20 pair of the same black socks that work great for work, not working, riding and running.

Anyway the problem is more with the community as a whole, designing trails for the lowest common denominator. It is more about selling more bikes than riding good trails. IMBA is not a trail organization, it is a retailer/manufacturer organization.

 

[jdcamb]

The race scene here has exploded. On most days you will encounter folks training and huffing up behind you. Ask me to move over and I will. Access is a double edged sword. The more folks that ride a area, the more the douche factor increases.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

@Serial Midget Have you considered buying a frame and parts and building it up yourself ? There are some amazing deals to be had online on closeout components. For example, I scored a Pike 160 msrp $1000+ for $479 because it was a 2015. I saved close to $2500 on my Spitfire doing it that way.

 

[Serial Midget]

27.5" is a marketing ruse. It has an approach angle closer to a 26" wheel, but most of the weight/inertia of a 29" wheel. Makes even less sense on a hardtail.

26 inch wheels are still fine, a 650 with a fat tire barely measures 27.5. My curent 2.35 26" tires have an effective diameter of 26.75 " and that suits me just fine, a 650 with an XC tire I'm likely to run will probably be within a quarter inch.

I'm fine with this, I'm not replacing a 2 year old bike with with 2 year old components, I'm replacing a 12 year old bike with components that are 14 to 16 years old.

The only reason MTB had a 26 inch standard is the stripped down cruiser bikes people road down trails in the 70s all came with that size wheel. Its what was available. You didn't run your 700s because they where too skinny.

It's time.

 

[Serial Midget]

@Serial Midget Have you considered buying a frame and parts and building it up yourself ? There are some amazing deals to be had online on closeout components. For example, I scored a Pike 160 msrp $1000+ for $479 because it was a 2015. I saved close to $2500 on my Spitfire doing it that way.

I haven't built a complete bike ever, I used to have my headsets pressed and bottom brackets installed, I don't think that's even required anymore. I've swapped out brakes, drive trains and forks... yeah, see your point.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

I haven't built a complete bike ever, I used to have my headsets pressed and bottom brackets installed, I don't think that's even required anymore. I've swapped out brakes, drive trains and forks... yeah, see your point.

Have an LBS press the headset, and buy it from them. This way you get the correct size and the shop makes a little bit. Some shops will give you a discount for cash, but ask in advance.

 

[jdcamb]

A headset press tool is a really good tool to own and learn how to utilize. If you own one all your fiends will need to supply beer in order for you to use it. How awesome is that!