I've had enough with Atom labs, busted the rear wheel today. Have a D521 on it right now and love it. :heart: :heart: :heart: 
Mark me down as another rider who has switched to Mavic.
- Thread starter Rip
- Start date
Mavic is great.... Always run their rims but Ive had trouble with my latest EX729 (old 321)
I have about 5-10 dents from 1 week of riding.
I have about 5-10 dents from 1 week of riding.
yeah, love the 521s (EX721), and they seem fairly resistant to flat spotting.
weight has NOTHING to do with rim strength. heavy does not mean strong.nickaziz said:
The one I trashed was an atom labs air corps. The trail pimps I have are really overkill for what I do. I'm finding out that the 521 is a perfect balance for strength and weight for me. I would like to get a set of Halo combats, but over kill for my needs. I've busted too many Sun Rims to trust them. Also I want to eventually make an easy conversion to tubeless and I feel by going with the 521's, I have that option wide open. Weight indeed doesn't equal strength. Seems that Mavic discovered how to make light, strong rims.
When you're talking about strucutres made of the same material in virtually the same design, weight is a very strong indicator of strength. Compare 321's to Arrows or Mag30's. They have relatively similar designs (half oval), yet the number of smashed and destroyed 321's compared to arrows or mags is huge. Not because either has a poor design or material choice, but simply because one is a heck of a lot lighter.squarewheels said:
Doublewides ARE extremely strong rims. Unfortunately, they were designed in such a way that they dent easily, due to their very low profile. This is probably a case of poor design. They are stronger torsionally than anyone would ever need, yet they dent from hard square-edged impacts.
Umm, no. You really don't know what you're talking about do you.nickaziz said:
First off, it is in how the rim is constructed, Mavic welds their rims, Atom Labs didn't until this year, and I have still heard of 2004 Atom Labs falling apart from seperation at the point where they welded. Have yet to see a mavic do that. Doublewides are pinned together just like the other sun rims are, and Mag30's are made by sun which means pinned.
Second off you know those eyelets that mavic uses, they actually help strengthen the rim, thus alowing them to use a lighter metal. Atom Labs strengthens their wheels by making them with a thicker metal. Doublewides have eyelets if I remember, it's been so long since I had a set; they use a metal that is close to the level of a tin soup can strength wise and a wide rim needs taller sidewalls if they are going to be strong.
Third, heat treating makes a difference, ask any karpiel owner.
(Just kidding.)I have trashed doublewides going off of a small loading dock.
Right...Rip said:
Wrong. Mag 30's are welded. Not that the welds do anything. They are all ground away. I've seen Mag30's and Mavics split at the "welds."Rip said:
I don't really see what you're getting at here. I've seen so many rims crack from the eyelet hole.Rip said:
Are you saying the Arrows, Suns, and Atomlabs are not heat treated? And are you saying the fact that the 321's are heat treated to the point of being as brittle as glass is a good thing?Rip said:
Sad...Rip said:
he means with eyelets you can build a lighter rim, because the strip where the spokes run can be made thinned overall...same concept as butted tubing.nickaziz said:
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It seems different manufacturers have different opinions on this. Arrow, for example, seems to think eyelets are not a good thing. Compared to the Mag30 which has eyelets, the arrow seems to be stronger and lighter. But it's a hard call, and I really wouldn't know which is better.zedro said:
However, in the scheme of things this is not the primary factory affecting rim strength.
My general point is don't expect a significantly lighter rim to be as strong as a muc heavier rim. However, in Rip's story, this doesn't seem to be the case, because the Aircorp was a similar weight rim, and the Mavic probably has better engineering behind it. I was originalyl thinking trailpimp when he said atom lab.
to me thats more of a marketing justification for not having the manufacturing ability to use eyelets or selectively increase the material thickness at the spokes, since alot of that thicker material is 'wasted' IMO. Check out high end Mavic road wheels, they even machine the material between the spokes.nickaziz said:
i was on Mag30s for a long time, and loved em. Decided to go tubeless this season with 823s 
by far one of the worst rims ive tried. Im back with Sun but this time on MTXs which are welded and pinned and have been holding up great for the past month and a half
by far one of the worst rims ive tried. Im back with Sun but this time on MTXs which are welded and pinned and have been holding up great for the past month and a half
1- hahanickaziz said:
2- weight != strong
3- the mavic ia about a zillion times stronger then an atomlab.
nickaziz i'd be careful about arguing your poing eBully might get yo ass banned 
The 521 is a super rim, I've been running a single set on my RFX for 4 seasons and they were actually built with Double Butted spokes to my surprise since I ordered them with straight guage spokes. First three season with tubes and this season with Stans. In that time I've broken two spokes on the rear (right where they are butted) and one dent in the rear. Both front and rear are still true and solid but I'll probably replace the rear rim this winter, front has years left in it.
321's are also a great rim but do dent easier than the 521 due to their profile and the fact that they can accomodate a huge tire that allows ridiculously low air pressure.
As far as I'm concerned the best rim available right now for DH is the 321 with Stan's and the best option for trails are the 521s with Stans. I'm not impressed with Mavic's UST rims yet even though I've got some 823s on my DH bike right now. If I knew what I now know about the 823 when I built the bike I'd have the 321 with Stans on my DH ride.
Sun rims are an excellent choice for lighter weight riders (or extremely smooth riders), have both the Rhyno Lite XL and Single Tracks on my wife's bikes and they've held up fine for multiple seasons. I also have these set up with Stans. I personally would not ride a Sun rim though as I know too many people my size and similar skills that have destroyed them.
521=4 full seasons on my RFX riding at Vietnam and Lynn with an occasional DH outing when my DHR was out of service.
321's are also a great rim but do dent easier than the 521 due to their profile and the fact that they can accomodate a huge tire that allows ridiculously low air pressure.
As far as I'm concerned the best rim available right now for DH is the 321 with Stan's and the best option for trails are the 521s with Stans. I'm not impressed with Mavic's UST rims yet even though I've got some 823s on my DH bike right now. If I knew what I now know about the 823 when I built the bike I'd have the 321 with Stans on my DH ride.
Sun rims are an excellent choice for lighter weight riders (or extremely smooth riders), have both the Rhyno Lite XL and Single Tracks on my wife's bikes and they've held up fine for multiple seasons. I also have these set up with Stans. I personally would not ride a Sun rim though as I know too many people my size and similar skills that have destroyed them.
521=4 full seasons on my RFX riding at Vietnam and Lynn with an occasional DH outing when my DHR was out of service.
But Atomlabs prints "Strong as Hell" on them?!!! It must be so!squarewheels said:
neaky:
Me too. I am having the same problem.crashnscar said:
Maybe not in a zillion pieces, but the number of folded over sidewalls I've seen on the Trailpimps while at races boarders on rediculous, especially considering how relatively few races I've been to...nickaziz said:
My buddy, who weighs in at a hefty ~140 sopping wet, folder over his Trailpimp recently, and he's a pretty smooth rider.
maybe not smashed into a million pieces. But after one season my trailpimp is crap I have 2 dents that are so bad I cant get a new tire to seat and multiple smaller dents. It is so out of true it is ridiculous. What apiece of junk!
my double tracks hold up way better on the same terrain with the same setup with the same wheelbuilder.
my double tracks hold up way better on the same terrain with the same setup with the same wheelbuilder.
m00ch! m00ch from MTBR? With the Giant AC & Rohloff hub? And a Manitou Supernova? You still run that setup or have you traded it in?m00ch said:
I just remember a couple long emails we traded regarding the performance of the Rohloff.. I was interested in buying one once upon a time.
Ha, that one dent you had was the size of the grand canyon.profro said:Me too. I am having the same problem.
You could set up a gift shop on the thing, and sell admission tickets to
tourists.
Yeah, well now I have one to match in my backup wheel.Jeremy R said:Ha, that one dent you had was the size of the grand canyon.
You could set up a gift shop on the thing, and sell admission tickets to
tourists.
>DH Dad wrote:
>
>I'm not impressed with Mavic's UST rims yet even though I've got some 823s
>on my DH bike right now. If I knew what I now know about the 823 when I built
>the bike I'd have the 321 with Stans on my DH ride.
Whats wrong with the EX823's? I suppose that you mean the old 321's (EX729) cause you are a DH-rider right?
Im planning to use them on my next FS freeride-bike that mostly will be used for trailriding and urban/street rides. They seem nice to me but I havent tried them. The alternatives would either be the XM321 (cheap allmountainrims) or the new EX325, wich will be a cheap non-ust freeride-rim. Probably much like the XM321, but a bit wider and stronger. Its quite heavy though, heavier than the EX823's.
Please tell me why I shouldnt choose EX823. Im not sure that I will use them with UST-tires.
And please try to see it from a more "freeride/street/urban/trailrides" perspective. I wont use them for DH, altough I will do some "easy" DH-rides in Verbier and the Swedish mountains next year.
>
>I'm not impressed with Mavic's UST rims yet even though I've got some 823s
>on my DH bike right now. If I knew what I now know about the 823 when I built
>the bike I'd have the 321 with Stans on my DH ride.
Whats wrong with the EX823's? I suppose that you mean the old 321's (EX729) cause you are a DH-rider right?
Im planning to use them on my next FS freeride-bike that mostly will be used for trailriding and urban/street rides. They seem nice to me but I havent tried them. The alternatives would either be the XM321 (cheap allmountainrims) or the new EX325, wich will be a cheap non-ust freeride-rim. Probably much like the XM321, but a bit wider and stronger. Its quite heavy though, heavier than the EX823's.
Please tell me why I shouldnt choose EX823. Im not sure that I will use them with UST-tires.
And please try to see it from a more "freeride/street/urban/trailrides" perspective. I wont use them for DH, altough I will do some "easy" DH-rides in Verbier and the Swedish mountains next year.
actually yes, i do. on my pda, so i will be brief.nickaziz said:
i have folded over many a 26" trailpimp rim, flatspotted more, and folded in sidewalls.
i weigh 140lbs.
meanwhile, i set of 521s have lasted an entire world cup/ncs race season. i prefer 521s to 321s due to weight and better tire profile.
complete obliteration is not the only thing that renders a rim useless.
i have seen more than one trialpimp rim is really bad shape. they dont expolode but they do dent and flat spot really easy! that alloy they use is really soft. thay only othan rims bside mavic that i will use a vuelta(really inexpensive ubt still pretty good) and the intense Mag30's(really strong and not too heavy, i have mac this a good one and it is still in good shape. i only got a flat spot but i hit it soooo hard). the only other rim so far that i would be willing to try is that sun mtx rim. i will say though for the most part i'm not impressed by sun's rims at all.
cal // sweden Please tell me why I shouldnt choose EX823. Im not sure that I will use them with UST-tires. [/QUOTE said:
berkshire_rider:
Sorry, but I did read some of those threads before posting my question. Maybe I should have posted it in any of those threads instead of this one when its not about DH?
Anyway. I just wanted to know what experience DH Dad has now, that he didnt have before he bought his EX823's. Some people say that these rims are fine and that they have ridden lots of miles on them without problems. But some say that they are the worse you can get.
I just dont know if I should buy them for trailride-use and street-abuse or not. 
The Mavic 2005's will probably be release too late for me. My new bike should be setup and done in mid-november and cant wait for a new rim then cause all of my old stuff has been stolen.
Sorry, just my 2 cents.
Sorry, but I did read some of those threads before posting my question. Maybe I should have posted it in any of those threads instead of this one when its not about DH?
Anyway. I just wanted to know what experience DH Dad has now, that he didnt have before he bought his EX823's. Some people say that these rims are fine and that they have ridden lots of miles on them without problems. But some say that they are the worse you can get.
I just dont know if I should buy them for trailride-use and street-abuse or not.
The Mavic 2005's will probably be release too late for me. My new bike should be setup and done in mid-november and cant wait for a new rim then cause all of my old stuff has been stolen.
Sorry, just my 2 cents.
people like to be dramatic...cal // sweden said:Some people say that these rims are fine and that they have ridden lots of miles on them without problems. But some say that they are the worse you can get.
I just dont know if I should buy them for trailride-use and street-abuse or not.
i wouldn't use them if abuse is in your vocabulary tho, but fine if your someone who doesnt have a habit of trashing rims. Its a vanilla DH trail rim.
I have been beating the crap out of my 823s this season and they have been fine for me but, I am only 145 Lbs. Like Zedro says like vanilla.
Just trying to direct you to some relevant information.
For trail riding / street-abuse you should be fine. I have been running EX823's all season on fairly tech northeast trails (no DH) w/o any problems. *knocks on wood* It just doesn't appear to be a good rim for dh.
>berserker wrote:
>
>It just doesn't appear to be a good rim for dh.
Alright. I understand why people are so upset about these rims then. I did not think that anyone would use them for serious DH actually. Thought it was more of a rough trailride/freeride ust-rim?
Im 155 lbs and most of the time, there will be no abuse. But some times there will be, when having fun in the streets etc. and when visiting Verbier, the Atlas Mountains, Åre (swedish place) etc.
What new Mavic models will be released in 2005 except for EX325 (that you can see in many webshops already, altough there are no rims in stock) ??
There will be a new set of Deemax wheels aswell. But how about new "UST rims" that you mentioned?
>
>It just doesn't appear to be a good rim for dh.
Alright. I understand why people are so upset about these rims then. I did not think that anyone would use them for serious DH actually. Thought it was more of a rough trailride/freeride ust-rim?
Im 155 lbs and most of the time, there will be no abuse. But some times there will be, when having fun in the streets etc. and when visiting Verbier, the Atlas Mountains, Åre (swedish place) etc.
What new Mavic models will be released in 2005 except for EX325 (that you can see in many webshops already, altough there are no rims in stock) ??
There will be a new set of Deemax wheels aswell. But how about new "UST rims" that you mentioned?
as for street abusing the 823s i cracked 2 "street abusing them" get MTXs thats what im on now
i always assumed street is more abusive, with drops and sharp stairs.
yes and no. Trailpimps hold up great street riding due to their wery high sidewall, but they suck DHing.zedro said: