marzocchi drop off III

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by jonny dh, Jan 1, 2008.

  1. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I'm having issues with harsh top off after I compress, if if pull up on the handle bars is make a thud noise like there is extra space that it's not using,it also does it mostly on a rocky trail
    was wondering if there is not enough oil in the chamber,I am 160 lbs. with my gear on and have 45 psi's in the left chamber only,I have the rebound set to where it comes up not to fast but with a slight resistance,if I do more resistance it still does the same,
    also if I start off with less resistance to more resistance the last half turn it starts to have the resistance.
    is that a problem with the rebound knob?
    if I turn the rebound all the up so I have least resistance it gets much worse.so thats where I feel that maybe there is not enough oil in the chamber.I plan on upgrading the fork this summer but I want to use this fork on another bike but want to find if there is a fix that I can make to stop the harsh top off?
     
    #1 -   Jan 1, 2008

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  2. WODIE

    WODIE Monkey

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    You definitely need to check and make sure you have enough oil in the fork. I dont know a whole lot about forks yet but.. when you compress the fork watch your stanchions and see if theres any oil coming out. You could have a blown seal ala less oil and harsh top out. I had a manitou travis for a little bit that started to top out like crazy, i sent it back before i got deep into stuff but i'm pretty sure its seals were blown and on top of that the intrinsic cartridge was also going bad. Hope for the best that its just seals cause thats not too bad of a fix.
     
    #2 -   Jan 2, 2008
  3. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Check the oil level and replace the stock oil with a thicker weight oil. If it bottoms all the time, it's not enough oil,or improper spring-air weight. If it tops out, the oil is too fluid. It has Golden Spectro 7.5wt oil in it.

    Bump it up to 10 and see how that does. That should slow down the rebound enough so that it won't clunk every time you lift up the front wheel.You can also mix some 10wt and 15wt oil as long as it's the same brand and type of oil.

    Just make sure and use non foaming oil, for suspension forks.
     
    #3 -   Jan 2, 2008
  4. joelsman

    joelsman Turbo Monkey

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    don't change oil weights until you check oil level, with your weight the stock oil, 7.5wt, should be fine, and you still have more adjustment if needed, from your description. heavier oil would slow compression down also.

    it sounds like the oil level is low too me also. an oil change would be good also, fork prolly needs it.
     
    #4 -   Jan 2, 2008
  5. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I bought a 7.3 in feb 07 and rode about six months of it,would oil go that bad so fast,I rode once a week the trail I ride takes about 20 min to ride down if I don't use the brake that much?
    When I open the legs I have more oil in the left leg,is this normal?
    I
     
    #5 -   Jan 2, 2008
  6. NEstinkyrider

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    #6 -   Jan 3, 2008
  7. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    the only thing is that my fork is oe type and no specs for the oil res.so I have't been able to get a hold of marz. yet.
     
    #7 -   Jan 3, 2008
  8. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    just got of the phone with mike gold from marz. excellent rep by the way, told me that the oil level is to be equal both sides,oil level is to be 45 mm, from top of oil level to the opening of the fork w/ forks compressed.:clapping:
     
    #8 -   Jan 3, 2008
  9. CA_Descender

    CA_Descender Chimp

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    Have you added air to the fork?

    I had the same problem with mine when I first bought my bike. Oil level was good to go and when I set the suspension up, adding some psi (the forks come with no pressure in them), stopped that "thunk" you hear.

    Get a fork pump if ya do not have one, check out the manual for the pressure you need and add a bit of air, that should help. Just watch how much ya put in there, if you use what is recommended the fork may be a bit to firm. I had to drop the psi a few to get the correct feel for my riding and weight.
     
    #9 -   Jan 3, 2008
  10. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    ya it's psi is set to 34 for my weight and proper sag which is 25 to 30%
    I only have the left leg filled with air the other has a coil,I wonder If I have the wrong spring,but if I do would I go softer so or heavier?
     
  11. CA_Descender

    CA_Descender Chimp

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    What year is yer triple? I know the '06 Triple uses air in both legs

    Edit: Also, 34psi? I am 265 and only use 15psi lft leg/5 psi rt to get proper sag.
     
  12. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    its a oe 06 drop off III, marz. suggested to run only air in one side since the coil is in the other.
     
  13. CA_Descender

    CA_Descender Chimp

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    Add 2-3psi to the right and see if it helps. The only reason I added to the right was the "thunk" and it helped but I did lower the psi in the left to compensate.
     
  14. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I'll try that.
    I know when you by a complete bike from a company,the other companies like fox and marz, and so forth have a specific category for different size bikes,I have a med bike which put me in the range of the bike specs to be 135 to 160 so does that always mean that the spring is always going to be right, I know the rear shock is alway going to change because of the riding style
     
  15. BrooklynMachine

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    The drop offs use the VF2 damper which is probably the simplest and least sensitive damper Marz has offered. It is, however, incredibly reliable once you get it tuned.
    Even at 160lbs you should experiment with at least 15 wt. oil at the stock oil height to improve damping adjustability and help with the top out. We've found that adding more stock wt. oil in the VF2 forks only increases harshness and decreases overall travel (it decreases the air chamber volume) , and will do nothing to curb the top out problem.
    Using heavier oil may allow you to run sligtly lower air pressure with less bobbing and give you more useable travel. As a side benefit top out will be curbed as the VF2 damper now has an oil thick enough to controll the motion (in both compression and rebound) of the fork.
    Good Luck!
     
  16. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    thanks I'll try this as well,however I have tried the changing oil and filled both legs at the spec of 7.5 and 10wt.and a volume of 45mm w/compressed forks to get this measurement and air to my riders weight and it does run allot smoother,but still has the harsh top out,I also found that there was less top out w the 10wt but still have smooth travel all the way,so I'll try BM's way and let you know how it goes.
    my experiments have begun.
    thanks again for your guys and gals that have opened their suggestions.
    Keep them coming.
     
  17. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Like I had said in my first post. The only thing that will slow down rebound top out, is thicker oil, and less pre-load. My 66vf2 has half 15wt and half 10wt oil on the rebound side. That fixed the top out problem. By adding more air Pre-load you would just be intensifying the problem with the top out.

    My compression side has the stock 7.5wt oil in it, as It never had a problem with bottom out, Just top out. The vf2 is a very simple suspension system to adjust. And by the way... I'm 6'6" weight in at 250 and use less than 5lbs of pre load air"one or to pumps" and never bottom my 66.
     
  18. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    have you changed your spring out,to go stiffer or softer
     
  19. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    No. All my Marzocchi forks still have the stock springs in them. They use the air preload now instead of swapping springs anymore. That's why I use Marzocchi on all my bikes. No hassle of swapping springs, and the reliability factor is also a Plus.

    I'd try to not use any, or little air preload to start out with, as it tends to make the fork choppy in turns and less responsive over small chatter bumps at speed. The way mine is set up now is perfect for me and I haven't touched a thing on it since I did the oil change, and adjusted the rebound over a year ago.
     
  20. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    do you have the same amount of oil in both legs?
    are you mixing the 15 and 10 weight together or using 10 on the positive side and 15 on the pre side?
     
  21. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Yes. I have the same amount of oil in each leg. One side of my 66 has 7.5 wt in the compression side."left leg" and on the right Rebound side I mixed 3/4 10wt oil and 1/4 15wt oil.

    Just fill it to the same oil level as the opposite side, and try just replacing the oil in the rebound side first, to see if it gets rid of the top out.
    Unless you bottom the fork out all the time, I'd leave the stock oil wt in the other leg.
     
  22. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    okay I"ll try that. hey I have a question do you ride the c trail in cedar city,if you do that is where I live and ride all the time.
     
  23. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    No. I live in Kansas City. But we tend to travel allot to ride trails with a little more elevation.:rolleyes: Don't get me wrong. We have some great trails here. Just nothing you'd need a lift to get to the top. C is the first letter in my name, and I love to ride trail. Hence the name Ctrailfreak.
     
  24. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    That is the name of the trail that is behind my house it an old cattle trail that has been abondond and we have converted it to fr dh trail,good name
     
  25. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    Having a hard time finding a 15 wt. fork oil some of the shops around here are wondering if my spring is to soft because of how much air I'm using but I only use 34 psi in one leg, the shops are telling me that there should be no air or very little air,still need help on finding what spring is needed for my weight is there a way to tell?
     
  26. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Call Marzocchi tech dept at 1-800-227-5579 ask for Mike. Any Motorcycle shop should carry a large variety of oil weights, and brands. And besides that it's much cheaper than buying it at a bike shop.
     
  27. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I went to all the morotcycle shops in town but it such a unused product here in this small town,and the LBS in town here I won't buy from he marks his stuff up 50% of what I can get it online for,so I'm serching for the syn.15wt.I'm going to try to find it still and if I don't I'll send it in.does the spring have a way to tell what weight it is?
     
  28. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    If you have air preload you most likely wont be able to get a stiffer spring. Does your fork only have one side spring, and one side air?

    Just change the stock oil in the rebound side with 10wt oil. "Let all the air out of the fork before taking off the top cap"!!!!!!!
    Fill it to recommended oil height, for your weight. Turn the rebound all the way in, so it moves at it's slowest when decompressing. Check to see how much slower it moves than when it did with the stock oil.

    If it moves too slow, then back it off a turn at a time, rechecking every turn. If it's still topping out at full rebound, than take some 10wt oil out, and mix in some 15wt oil.
    CALL Mike at Marzocchi and ask him if they even make a stiffer spring for your fork. I doubt they do but check to be sure.

    The oil is the only thing that will resolve your fork topping out problem. Not springs, or air. If you are getting proper sag, and no bottom out, then all you need worry about, is the oil weight in the rebound cartridge.
     
  29. BrooklynMachine

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    There aren't any extra spring rates except "stock" for the drop off. If you can't find the oil you need locally, check out online motorcycle shops.
     
  30. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    hey are there any differences between the rc2x 06 and 07besides the 06 having 130 to 150 mm and the 07 has 180mm,are internal parts the same and function the same?
     
  31. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    mike from marzocchi said to bring it in to make sure that the rebound
    is working properly,aslo had a question about adding another cartridge to make it more tunable would the z1 cartridge work for this fork,I think that I would have to add a different spring and some other parts but want to If any one has done this before on this OE fork.
     
  32. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    You might try the rebound oil change first. If it's still doing it then send it in. The fork should still be under warranty since Marzocchi has 2 years on their forks. But I'm telling you changing the oil will help with your problem.

    Chris out....
     
  33. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I will try the iol first before isend it in,have you tried modifying a marzocchi fork,I think the z1 has the same internals but hope to find someone that has attempted to do so,I have a rebound adj. but want to toy around w/the compression to get a more tuning ability, do you know of any one that has attempted this, or if this works.
     
  34. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Nope. And if you don't know much about forks, I wouldn't attempt to do it either. You could trash your fork quick if you don't know what your doing. I think the compression damper side of that fork is plastic, and the rebound damper side is metal, or vise versa.
     
  35. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    I tried the 15 and 10 and it works great,but I think after I buy my rc2x I'll send it in mike said he can add another cartridge and it will give me my compression dampening,so I'll see how that goes.
     
  36. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    Good! I'm glad it helped out. No more lowers slamming down on lift off is a good thing!
     
  37. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    thanks for the help.been doing any riding yet?
     
  38. ctrailfreak

    ctrailfreak Monkey

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    I'm going on a 3 day riding trip Friday morning. Going to hit up Bentonville Arkansas. Ride the slope style park, Ride some trails, Then head to Devils Den state park and ride some DH the rest of the weekend. I'm going to ride so much, that by the time I get home, I'll be sick of my bike. If that's even possible.:shocked:

    Can't wait since the riding around here has been non existent other than urban, since winter hit. I'm ready for some Trails, Drops, Wall Rides, and Skinnies!:lighten:
     
  39. jonny dh

    jonny dh Monkey

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    you said it!another lucky being to go ride,
    I just made some upgrades to the 7. chopper and it's now down to 40lbs. and the fork should feel allot better,thanks take some pics so I can be jealous,It's -5 degrees here,still ridable but cold.
     
  40. BrooklynMachine

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    The rc2x damper is definitely the way to go. Comparing it to the VF2 damper is like comparing a NASA shuttle rocket to a mid-90s Toyota tercel engine (bitchin' car in it's own right!).
    If you said you had the $$$ to get a new damper alltogether, we would have sent you down that route from the first post!
    As an added bonus, if you've managed to work out meaningful adjustments on the VF2 damper, you'll be way ahead when feeling out the adjustment to the rc2x. Congrats!:monkeydance: