[IH8Rice]

My program has aircraft that get rework done by NIPPI at Atsugi. In spite of the traffic, lines for gas, erratic trian schedules and shoratages of everything, on top of rolling 4 hour blackouts, they are at work, repaired the hangar doors and are starting work again today, email from the supervisor "apologized" for the fact it may take a "4 or 5 more days to get back to some sort of normal". Wow. We were figuring weeks, if not months.

The Japanese culture is impressive, especially after living in New Orleans and personally witnessing the post Katrina debacle.

Atsugi is far enough away from the main disaster area that them going back to work isnt anything to be surprised about.
my family's business in stayed open too since they are thankfully far enough away from the area.

 

[MMike]

So now Chinooks are dropping water on the reactors. I had posted this a couple of days ago on my helicopter forum.....pilots who put out forest fires etc.......they all agree that there's basically no point in doing that at all. just a waste of Jet A fuel.

 

[IH8Rice]

So now Chinooks are dropping water on the reactors. I had posted this a couple of days ago on my helicopter forum.....pilots who put out forest fires etc.......they all agree that there's basically no point in doing that at all. just a waste of Jet A fuel.

they did actually resume again?

if its not in a near meltdown situation, then it is necessary to get more water on the spent fuel rods. its probably better then using fire trucks or water cannons

 

[IH8Rice]

this made me sad until i read that they are okay

 

[MMike]

they did actually resume again?

if its not in a near meltdown situation, then it is necessary to get more water on the spent fuel rods. its probably better then using fire trucks or water cannons

I believe they are doing all of the above. But there's live fottage on cnn.com right now.

They are so high when they drop, it's a fine mist before it touches the reactor. They are apparently using 7.5 tonne buckets.

 

[IH8Rice]

But there's live fottage on cnn.com right now.

They are so high when they drop, it's a fine mist before it touches the reactor. They are apparently using 7.5 tonne buckets.

the live feed is eerie. it almost seems like a last ditch effort at this point.

a 7.5ton bucket seems kinda small in comparison to a CH47's lifting capacity.

 

[MMike]

I was just on the SEI site.....there's one Bambi Bucket size higher.....10 tonne (10000 kg). 2600 US gal......

It must be all they have.

 

[DaveW]

I was just on the SEI site.....there's one Bambi Bucket size higher.....10 tonne (10000 kg). 2600 US gal......

It must be all they have.

VB, mate if your even remotely going to be downwind, f*ck your "not good for the others".... Leave, you and your family leave now please.

 

[valve bouncer]

VB, mate if your even remotely going to be downwind, f*ck your "not good for the others".... Leave, you and your family leave now please.

Mate, believe you me, if I thought we were in any danger at all I'd be gone like a shot. But we remain completely unaffected by this tragedy. There are no shortages of anything, power is on, no lines, no shortages of petrol, no nothing. Me up and leaving would cause other people to have to expend resources that are best spent helping people who are genuinely in need.
I am though genuinely touched by the concern shown by you guys on this forum and if I get out of this alive the first round is on me as long as there's not more than 5 of you and one of you better be the skipper.

 

[Westy]

and one of you better be the skipper.

I think a something was lost in translation? Are you looking for a prison bitch? Just invite N8.

 

[Westy]

So when I read about the problems at Fukushima it seems there are two different events happening. Typical media sources paint a desperate situation, a near nukUlar holocaust with brave workers going on suicide missions. Other, more scientific sources, paint a very serious situation but not the "run for your lives" event. Workers are exposing themselves to higher levels of radiation than normal but to quote "Exposure to 25 rem is still a lot under normal circumstances, but under guidelines set by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, these workers are not risking their lives"

Only time will tell what the reality is.

 

[valve bouncer]

I think a something was lost in translation? Are you looking for a prison bitch? Just invite N8.

Designated driver I believe you guys would say, but I like how your mind works.

 

[KavuRider]

So when I read about the problems at Fukushima it seems there are two different events happening. Typical media sources paint a desperate situation, a near nukUlar holocaust with brave workers going on suicide missions. Other, more scientific sources, paint a very serious situation but not the "run for your lives" event. Workers are exposing themselves to higher levels of radiation than normal but to quote "Exposure to 25 rem is still a lot under normal circumstances, but under guidelines set by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, these workers are not risking their lives"

Only time will tell what the reality is.

Let me guess...the American media sources are going "OMG nukular apocalypse!!!"

I doubt we'll get the truth about what is going on for awhile. Especially if they are having to put worker's lives at risk.

 

[IH8Rice]

Let me guess...the American media sources are going "OMG nukular apocalypse!!!"

I doubt we'll get the truth about what is going on for awhile. Especially if they are having to put worker's lives at risk.

the media isnt too far off of what could happen.

theyve also said that theyve asked older workers to go in first since they would probably die of old age before they would of any effects of the radiation.

 

[KavuRider]

the media isnt too far off of what could happen.

theyve also said that theyve asked older workers to go in first since they would probably die of old age before they would of any effects of the radiation.

I just can't stand media hype.

It is a serious problem, but hype only leads to hysteria and...well...the people in my office for example will believe anything and everything they hear on the news.

Anyways...

That's pretty crazy stuff.

 

[IH8Rice]

I just can't stand media hype.

It is a serious problem, but hype only leads to hysteria and...well...the people in my office for example will believe anything and everything they hear on the news.

Anyways...

That's pretty crazy stuff.

the media is for sure in your face with the nuclear problem, but as mentioned, it is serious. the fact that TEPCO isnt really giving specific details about what is going on, makes it a field day for the media.
people seem to be scared enough to make potassium pills fly off the shelves out west.

 

[Westy]

I've been trying to keep track of stuff here:
http://mitnse.com/

I figure those eggheads are too interested in the science to be distracted by the OMFGWAAGTFD* factor

*Oh My Gawd We Are All Going To ****ing Die

 

[valve bouncer]

In situations like this no-one wants to hear a bunch of Pointdexters banging on about millisieverst and cesium 101. What they want to hear is the prime minister standing there with a shovel and a bucket saying "we're gonna get this bastard under control even if I have to go down there my own self and pour buckets of water on the muthafukka. I will not rest until every man jack of you are safe". We need the emperor to say he's prepared to go down there and do a royal dump on it if it'll help and most of all we need those TEPCO big wig pricks to be standing at the gate directing operations even if it means their cocks fall off in a month. You are the wankers who are getting paid the big bucks, you went after these positions of power, well boys it ain't all blowjobs from geisha girls and kickbacks from the yakuza. F*cking lead!

 

[Pesqueeb]

In situations like this no-one wants to hear a bunch of Pointdexters banging on about millisieverst and cesium 101. What they want to hear is the prime minister standing there with a shovel and a bucket saying "we're gonna get this bastard under control even if I have to go down there my own self and pour buckets of water on the muthafukka. I will not rest until every man jack of you are safe". We need the emperor to say he's prepared to go down there and do a royal dump on it if it'll help and most of all we need those TEPCO big wig pricks to be standing at the gate directing operations even if it means their cocks fall off in a month. You are the wankers who are getting paid the big bucks, you went after these positions of power, well boys it ain't all blowjobs from geisha girls and kickbacks from the yakuza. F*cking lead!

I want to make this entire post my signature.

 

[Westy]

In situations like this no-one wants to hear a bunch of Pointdexters banging on about millisieverst and cesium 101. What they want to hear is the prime minister standing there with a shovel and a bucket saying "we're gonna get this bastard under control even if I have to go down there my own self and pour buckets of water on the muthafukka. I will not rest until every man jack of you are safe". We need the emperor to say he's prepared to go down there and do a royal dump on it if it'll help and most of all we need those TEPCO big wig pricks to be standing at the gate directing operations even if it means their cocks fall off in a month. You are the wankers who are getting paid the big bucks, you went after these positions of power, well boys it ain't all blowjobs from geisha girls and kickbacks from the yakuza. F*cking lead!

Shouldn't they be killing themselves in the face of dishonor anyway?

 

[MMike]

I wondered that myself.

 

[X3pilot]

the live feed is eerie. it almost seems like a last ditch effort at this point.

a 7.5ton bucket seems kinda small in comparison to a CH47's lifting capacity.

The copters are lead lined, so that adds to the basic weight of the aircraft, reducing zero fuel weight and subsequently, gross weight.

 

[IH8Rice]

The copters are lead lined, so that adds to the basic weight of the aircraft, reducing zero fuel weight and subsequently, gross weight.

yeah, i read this morning that they were thankfully lead-lined.

 

[MMike]

from the helicopter forum"

Posted Today, 07:53 AM
The potential for flight crew contamination I assume would be somewhat mitigated by wearinf some type of NBCW suit and limiting the time each crew spent over the reactors.

That being said, what will happen to the helicopters? I would not like to be the engineer working on any of these aircraft every day or even five years from now and being unknowingly exposed to all the radioactive dust contamination secreted in every corner of the airframe

 

[KavuRider]

from the helicopter forum"

I know that in the case of Chernobyl they retired all of the firefighting equipment, just left it in the city for that very reason.

 

[IH8Rice]

I know that in the case of Chernobyl they retired all of the firefighting equipment, just left it in the city for that very reason.

yep. though the vehicles in Chernobyl experienced much worse radiation contamination

51°09'16.16"N 29°58'57.41"E - Google Maps

 

[KavuRider]

yep. though the vehicles in Chernobyl experienced much worse radiation contamination

51°09'16.16"N 29°58'57.41"E - Google Maps

True.

MI-8's?
Awesome.

 

[IH8Rice]

True.

MI-8's?
Awesome.

those particular ones are MI-6's

edit: http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/03/16/chernobyl-scrap-metal/

 

[KavuRider]

those particular ones are MI-6's

edit: http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/03/16/chernobyl-scrap-metal/

Awesome pics.
Thanks!

 

[Toshi]

So when I read about the problems at Fukushima it seems there are two different events happening. Typical media sources paint a desperate situation, a near nukUlar holocaust with brave workers going on suicide missions. Other, more scientific sources, paint a very serious situation but not the "run for your lives" event. Workers are exposing themselves to higher levels of radiation than normal but to quote "Exposure to 25 rem is still a lot under normal circumstances, but under guidelines set by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, these workers are not risking their lives"

Only time will tell what the reality is.

One of my cousins in Japan wrote to me, as a radiologist, wondering about the risks (assuming these numbers are correct and the units were not lost in translation, micro vs. milli, etc.):

As Mom wrote you earlier, we'd like to hear some professional opinions from the medical point of view about risk of radiation. The points we are deeply concerned are as below:

1, Up to how much radiation is acceptable per an hour?
Some examples of air radiation announced by the government on Wednesday are:

23.4 microSv/hour in Fukushima Pref. (where the nuclear plant is)
5.19 microSv/hour in the northern part of Ibaraki Pref.
1.318 microSv/hour in Tochigi Pref.
1.222 microSv/hour in Saitama Pref. (north of Tokyo)
0.809 microSv/hour in Tokyo

The government and Media are repeatedly emphasizing "no immediate damage on health." However, anxiety and doubt are growing among us.

For one thing, the amount announced by the government is naturally small because it is the amount of "per an hour." I believe we should multiply it by 24 hours for a day, and 30 days for a month, to forecast the possible damage.

For another thing, I saw the news on the Internet that the US rescue team is ordered to evacuate from 80 kilometers of Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, while the residents within only 20 kilometers are ordered the same by the Japanese government. Isn't the Japanese government too optimistic, underestimating the risk??

Key numbers: 23.4 microSievert/hr near the reactors, and less than 5 microSv/hr everywhere else. I forwarded the whole thing to my hospital's medical physicist, who deals with this stuff every day in the context of the medical procedures that we do on people involving radiation.

Here's the physicist's take on things:

Average background radiation exposure at sea level is about 0.417 μSv/hr. This number is due to a combination of radiation from cosmic rays and naturally occurring trace levels of radioactive material in the earth and air. However there is considerable variability in this number. I once worked with a physicist from south west India who told me that the background radiation levels on the beaches near his home were more than 13 times larger than this average (due to a higher than average thorium content in the sand). I am unaware of any adverse health consequences to the population as a result of this level of radiation. Nor are there any government restrictions against hanging out on these beaches.

To put these numbers into perspective, the U.S. Maximum Permissible Dose to radiation workers (which includes all of us who work in hospital radiology departments) is 50 mSv/year, which works out to a uniform dose of 5.6 μSv/hr if spread out uniformly over 24 hours and 365 days per year. Keep in mind that this is considered a SAFE level for chronic exposure, year after year, decade after decade over an entire working career. This level of chronic exposure is safer than for example farming, which is a relatively more dangerous occupation.

The government has compiled extensive data on the health records of radiation workers and found that the cancer rate for radiation workers is LOWER than the national average.

Most of the valid data we have on adverse health effects of radiation are due to exposures considerably higher than 100,000 to 200,000 μSv within a short time period.

The above information is solid. As for speculation on the reasons behind the various evacuation orders, all I can do is give you my best take on this, keeping in mind that I don’t have access to all the information.

The establishment of evacuation zones seems to be driven in part by trying to weigh concerns about what might happen in a worst case scenario vs. what is far more likely to happen, with the problems that will be generated by creating many more evacuees. I can easily understand the US government, which is dealing with a far smaller and most likely more mobile group of people, recommending a wider evacuation zone. The Japanese government on the other hand has to deal with a vastly larger group of far more settled people, and they have to weigh the remote possibility that such an extended evacuation would be necessary with the very real harm caused by the evacuation itself.

Again I repeat the last paragraph is my best understanding of the situation with very imperfect data.

Cliffs Notes: 5.6 microSv/hr is what I, as a radiologist, am legally allowed to sustain for every hour of every day of my career. There are no known health risks at this level. In Japan the level is under my permissible level everywhere except adjacent to the reactors.

 

[Westy]

 

[MMike]

You guys are harshing my panic.

 

[kidwoo]

Thanks westy....that was a good read.

 

[stoney]

Thanks westy....that was a good read.

I would say that Toshi's read was better. Westy just has pictures.

 

[Westy]

I would say that Toshi's read was better. Westy just has pictures.

I believe he was talking about this
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3608318&postcount=97

specifically the MIT link.

 

[kidwoo]

Both good. We can all be friends.

 

[Westy]

Group hug?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Level 5 group hug.

 

[valve bouncer]

Group hug?

You're still driving.

 

[syadasti]

Anyone post this yet?

Earthquake audio: http://listentothedeep.com/acoustics/index.html