I'm using a Mavic 823's and Maxxis UST High Roller on the rear of my DH bike. Twice now I've smoked a rock fairly hard in a rock garden and ended up with a small tear right on the bead of the tire that won't seal up, resulting in having to put a tube in. I can later patch the tear with a tube patch and layer of liquid rubber, but it's a bit of a pain. I never had this problem running normal DHF's in a converted tubeless application (although I never ran 823's before). Are the UST tires thinner in the bead area?
Maxxis/Mavic UST problem?
- Thread starter davet
- Start date
Smoked = tire bottomed out on the rim?
I have had the same problem. How about some strong glue? Like Gorilla glue or something like that?
I have had the same problem. How about some strong glue? Like Gorilla glue or something like that?
What are you running for pressure?
I couldn't even get my 3c High rollers to stay inflated on my 823s so I reverted back to D24s.
30psi
I've been running 823+Minion USTs for almost 2 years now. Never had a problem until a couple weekends back... ripped a hole in the tread part... wouldn't seal with the stans that was in there. Now running a tube.
Never had a problem around the bead though.
Never had a problem around the bead though.
With sealant?
I've been rockin 823, UST Maxxis 2.5s now for a couple of years and the worst i've had is a slow leak, and I've never used sealant(touches wood), I'd love to see some tracks rockier than what I ride on as they're fairly rocky. I am only 67kg though, 28PSI rear, 25 front.
Maybe Maxxis did a dud batch.
The trails in the northeast of the US are so much nastier when it comes to rocks than the trails in NSW Australia.
I've ridden most of the DH tracks around sydney, blue mountains and the central coast.
The rocks at Diablo freeride park are way more brutal than anything I've ridden in Australia. I rode DH in NSW for about 8 years, I now live in NYC.
Tubeless was a dream in Australia, but at Diablo I wont hold up at least on the rear (I'm 190lbs, ex823 + 2.5 3C Minion DHF).
I've ridden most of the DH tracks around sydney, blue mountains and the central coast.
The rocks at Diablo freeride park are way more brutal than anything I've ridden in Australia. I rode DH in NSW for about 8 years, I now live in NYC.
Tubeless was a dream in Australia, but at Diablo I wont hold up at least on the rear (I'm 190lbs, ex823 + 2.5 3C Minion DHF).
hmmm, mine are 08's too
I don't think the rim design changed for 08, did it? Pre-2006 (I think) the 823 (and before it the D3.1) had a groove in the sidewall that was designed to allow the side of the rim to bend over on impact, allowing to finish a run rather than puncturing the tire. Then Mavic realised that people didn't want to be replacing rims every few weeks and changed to the current design. I wouldn't say the current design puts undue stress on the tire, just that the old design was ****.
I haven't torn a hole near the bead, but I've put a hole on a Highroller UST. Tire was in the back, and the hole was about a half inch in the tread. The Stans tried to seal it, but would just squirt out over 10 psi.
It's not just Maxxis though, it can happen to Michelin's too. I tore the same size hole in a Comp 16 I was running on the front.
A rock can ruin your day if you're running 25-30 psi.
It's not just Maxxis though, it can happen to Michelin's too. I tore the same size hole in a Comp 16 I was running on the front.
A rock can ruin your day if you're running 25-30 psi.
Interesting, even rockier than Ol Bathurst road tracks at Blaxland?
I blew the bead on my 1st run High Roller this week at Whistler. Blew out the bead, exposed the thread, and took the tire off the rim. Wasn't going hard, just warming up over on Crank it Up. Will be talking to Maxxis tomorrow.
"Interesting, even rockier than Ol Bathurst road tracks at Blaxland?"
Yeah for sure.
I used to ride OBR every weekend.
I actually built one of the best tracks in that area with Cavedweller.
OBR is very rocky, what sets the rocks at diablo appart from OBR gnarl is that the rocks at diablo dont move when you hit them. The trail surface is really hard and the rocks are frozen in it. I would say that with the same tyre/tube/pressure you are at least 5X more likely to flat at diablo than at OBR. I run 35psi minimum with 2.5 maxxis and a DH tube, I still get flats, maybe every 4th weekend on average. I was running sub 30psi tubeless or with a DH tube in Aus and I would almost never flat (mind you at diablo we have the chairlift so you can get a lot of runs in one day).
I would say that OBR is more tech than diablo (the rolls near the highway and the chute that comes down next to the big tree near the lynch drop). There are 2 trails at diablo that are about as difficult at those sections (ripper and stigmata). There are not a lot of riders that ride the most brutal tracks at diablo, the vast majority of diablo regulars ride Dominion to Alpine all day long (the jump lines).
Plattekill has trails that are more challenging that any thing at OBR. Plattekill reminds me of the top section at Bulli Pass before it all got detroyed. Whiteface is a bit like threadbo but with more technical forest sections and more steep stuff.
East coast US riding beats the riding around sydney hands down.
Even with winter riding is way better living in Brooklyn than in Sydney.
Yeah for sure.
I used to ride OBR every weekend.
I actually built one of the best tracks in that area with Cavedweller.
OBR is very rocky, what sets the rocks at diablo appart from OBR gnarl is that the rocks at diablo dont move when you hit them. The trail surface is really hard and the rocks are frozen in it. I would say that with the same tyre/tube/pressure you are at least 5X more likely to flat at diablo than at OBR. I run 35psi minimum with 2.5 maxxis and a DH tube, I still get flats, maybe every 4th weekend on average. I was running sub 30psi tubeless or with a DH tube in Aus and I would almost never flat (mind you at diablo we have the chairlift so you can get a lot of runs in one day).
I would say that OBR is more tech than diablo (the rolls near the highway and the chute that comes down next to the big tree near the lynch drop). There are 2 trails at diablo that are about as difficult at those sections (ripper and stigmata). There are not a lot of riders that ride the most brutal tracks at diablo, the vast majority of diablo regulars ride Dominion to Alpine all day long (the jump lines).
Plattekill has trails that are more challenging that any thing at OBR. Plattekill reminds me of the top section at Bulli Pass before it all got detroyed. Whiteface is a bit like threadbo but with more technical forest sections and more steep stuff.
East coast US riding beats the riding around sydney hands down.
Even with winter riding is way better living in Brooklyn than in Sydney.
I have had problems with Highrollers on my new style 823's as well. Tore open at the bead, completely unrepairable. About an inch long right where the rim and tire meet. I have switched back to Michies and have not had that problem again. Maybe it was bad luck, but it happened two times, only on the rear. These were 2.5 Highrollers with 32 psi.
LAME!
I was racing in Mt. Hood Oregon this past weekend with my brand new 823 and brand new UST High rollers. I flatted my first run down that starts with a high speed rocky double track. It was a tiny hole just above the bead. I tried my next run with the same tires and a tube but, flatted again. I ended up throwing on a regular tire/tube and had no flats after that.
What I'm probably going to do now instead of selling the wheels is using regular tires with stans which a few guys do and they say it works great.
I'm really disappointed is Maxxis's so-called UST tires. It's really had to believe the set up I had didn't even last 1 run. These UST tires don't work! Maybe I'll go to Michelins instead.
I was racing in Mt. Hood Oregon this past weekend with my brand new 823 and brand new UST High rollers. I flatted my first run down that starts with a high speed rocky double track. It was a tiny hole just above the bead. I tried my next run with the same tires and a tube but, flatted again. I ended up throwing on a regular tire/tube and had no flats after that.
What I'm probably going to do now instead of selling the wheels is using regular tires with stans which a few guys do and they say it works great.
I'm really disappointed is Maxxis's so-called UST tires. It's really had to believe the set up I had didn't even last 1 run. These UST tires don't work! Maybe I'll go to Michelins instead.
Of all the tubeless setups I've tried (Michelins, Hutchinsons Maxxis UST, all on 823s with Stans) the non-UST MAxxis (both in super tacky and Maxxpro) has been the most trouble free setup. Note I don't say perfect, but I would say it's the only setup that's come close to a regular tube in terms of reliability.
I have run Minions DHF UST most of last year and this year. I have gotten one hole like describe this year and one last year. This year it sealed but the one from last year did not. I am now on my 4th rear UST tire and the rims are 07 823.
I have also run Comp 24s from Michelin and they were even more prone to pinching issues and ripping holes like described.
If the non UST are better I am not sure as I have only ridden a few Maxxis non UST in the rear. I do agree that it would be nice if Maxxis did something to improve the tire to avoid this as I love riding tubeless and have done so the last 5 years.
Other real UST options is Hutchison but only few riders run them and I personally have no knowledge about their tires.
when you use regular tires with 823's, do you have to use Stans strips to go tubeless???
Did you have a good time at Whistler on Saturday? I saw you just as we were leaving at the end of the day.
Yep - Diablo is pretty nasty with rock gardens galore. There is a lot packed into each trail, which I don't think a lot of people realize, but it's cool to hear from a rider who has actual experience riding elsewhere around the globe for comparison. Bushrider - ever been down "Deceit"...? Pretty nuts - it's basically a rock garden the whole way down.
At the US Open this year, they did a re-route near the top woods section that was pretty brutal on gear and riders - nothing but a long straightaway of rocks. I noticed a lot of the pros switching to 2.8 Michis front and rear or 2.7 Maxxis F and R... except for Sam and some of the other WC guys...
I was thinking about going UST tubeless for a while but considering I live in the Northeast US, and ride/race at Diablo - I think I'm just gonna stick with tubes. Just for comparison: I weigh about 165lbs. maybe a bit more with armor and am not the smoothest rider in the world.
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I have the same problem with the Michelin tires and those rims! You need to get some 729's and put the 823's in the trash! Tubeless is cool, until your tire is flat!
Michelins can puncture too... This just happened to me this weekend. Hit a rock at high speed front wheel. I thought "Thank you tubeless!" but then 30 seconds later I felt the dreaded front wishy washy feeling. Rock made a 1/2 inch tear...
Negative on the rim strips. The strip is there to seal the spoke holes -> not needed on the 823. Just use sealant (which you're better off using even with UST tires).
Yeah, Saturday was good. Went out a bit hard an I'm now nursing the bruises as a result, but a good day for sure. I didn't see you either. Next time!
I've straight killed two Maxxis UST tires this season. One was a Minion DHR at Northstar. I jammed a 1/8" twig right through the casing. That sucked on Boondocks.
The other was last weekend at Whistler. Blew out the High Roller during my first run. Same place as everyone else running that with an 823. More and more sounds like a manufacture issue to me.
The other was last weekend at Whistler. Blew out the High Roller during my first run. Same place as everyone else running that with an 823. More and more sounds like a manufacture issue to me.
Yep i had the same problem with my highrolller ripping at the bead the stuff just kept squirting out, i had just put the tyre on the night before (from brand new) had it inflated to 30psi 1 run and that happened not impressed at all.
I'm bringing this back up just because I blew out a Minion today on it's 3rd ride, 2 small tears in the bead area that won't seal up with Stans.
It's pretty rediculous that what is supposed to be the premium UST DH rim can't use what's supposed to be the premium UST DH tire.
I'm left to either run tubes in the UST tires or the heavier regular Maxxis tires as tubeless. The weight is basically the same.
I guess the UST bead area will keep tearing even with tubes, since it's so thin. I wonder how long they will last until a sidewall blows out.
They seem to do ok on the front, it takes alot less abuse than the rear.
I emailed Maxxis about this a few months back, I got the generic reply that if I thought I had a warranty issue to return it to the shop I bought it from. Unfortunately I got these tires through a buddy's pro deal direct from Maxxis in the US (I'm in Canada) so that's not an option.
It's pretty rediculous that what is supposed to be the premium UST DH rim can't use what's supposed to be the premium UST DH tire.
I'm left to either run tubes in the UST tires or the heavier regular Maxxis tires as tubeless. The weight is basically the same.
I guess the UST bead area will keep tearing even with tubes, since it's so thin. I wonder how long they will last until a sidewall blows out.
They seem to do ok on the front, it takes alot less abuse than the rear.
I emailed Maxxis about this a few months back, I got the generic reply that if I thought I had a warranty issue to return it to the shop I bought it from. Unfortunately I got these tires through a buddy's pro deal direct from Maxxis in the US (I'm in Canada) so that's not an option.
The problem isn't really the tires, although the Maxxis UST stuff does seem to be more tear prone than Michelin etc. The real culprit is the 823 rims. The sidewall cuts tires like no other. I recommend 721s with rim strips or ghetto tubeless. The sidewalls just seem more forgiving.
Yeah I tossed that coin quite a bit when I was building up this wheelset. The popular opinion seemed to be that 823's are a bit stronger and with me being 210lbs and not very smooth I opted for strength. Oh well, another lesson learned.
Another bump for this thread...
I got some new UST Minion DHF's for my big bike and today was the maiden voyage... I installed these the night before with Stans and about 35psi front, 40 in the rear.
Long story short, I got to the bottom of my favorite DH run to notice my rear tire was soft. Upon further inspection, I had a 1/4 inch tear right at the bead! The Stans was trying to seal it, but being at the bead I finally had to run a tube. This makes 3 for 5 rides where I've had some sort of tubeless issue. It's hard to sell people on these in a tubeless set-up when they're constantly watching me fix friggan flats!
I did the Maxxis E-mail thing, but I'm ready to try different tires...
I got some new UST Minion DHF's for my big bike and today was the maiden voyage... I installed these the night before with Stans and about 35psi front, 40 in the rear.
Long story short, I got to the bottom of my favorite DH run to notice my rear tire was soft. Upon further inspection, I had a 1/4 inch tear right at the bead! The Stans was trying to seal it, but being at the bead I finally had to run a tube. This makes 3 for 5 rides where I've had some sort of tubeless issue. It's hard to sell people on these in a tubeless set-up when they're constantly watching me fix friggan flats!
I did the Maxxis E-mail thing, but I'm ready to try different tires...
Many of us have experianced this and I do not think a change of tires is going to help. The 823 is a very rigid rim with a fairly tall sidewall which is where the problem lies. Too strong for it's own good.Another bump for this thread...
I got some new UST Minion DHF's for my big bike and today was the maiden voyage... I installed these the night before with Stans and about 35psi front, 40 in the rear.
Long story short, I got to the bottom of my favorite DH run to notice my rear tire was soft. Upon further inspection, I had a 1/4 inch tear right at the bead! The Stans was trying to seal it, but being at the bead I finally had to run a tube. This makes 3 for 5 rides where I've had some sort of tubeless issue. It's hard to sell people on these in a tubeless set-up when they're constantly watching me fix friggan flats!
I did the Maxxis E-mail thing, but I'm ready to try different tires...
Try a Stan's ZTR rim, not as strong a rim as an 823 but our entire race team as yet to cut a bead or burb a tire while running pressures from 24 to 30 PSI.
Transcend Magazine Team
Thanks for the input! I was thinking along these lines because I'm riding a Rocky Flatline and the rear of that bike is uber-stiff. There's no give anywhere so all that's left is the tire... Maybe if I got a flexier bike!
