[biggins]

The part I don't understand about "if a person is so fat that they have to have the seat set so far back so they can fit behind the wheel," is how do they still reach the pedals?

a higher distance between pedals and the floor. they did that in SUV's for soccer moms as well.

 

[JRB]

Let me summarize

Loco:Why do you care if people are fat?
Me: It causes a burden on society through health costs
Loco:There are other causes of increased health costs so why should people?
Me: people care about those other causes and have past laws to mitigate those causes.
Loco: I still don't get it.
Me: I give up.

hahaha - I am just saying that people post about drinking all the time, or smoking the herb and no one rips into them about how unhealthy it is. What are you going to do about fat other than education or genocide??? I don't think that just saying f*ck it, your kid is fat, so he shouldn't be in a car seat is dumb. If they don't make a seat the kids fit in, they just won't use them. That is more unhealthy. I understand the epidemic and the issues, I just don't understand the mentality that if we ignore it, it will just go away. Just because they make them bigger, people are not going to say, hey, I'll get fat so I can use that.

 

[biggins]

hahaha - I am just saying that people post about drinking all the time, or smoking the herb and no one rips into them about how unhealthy it is. What are you going to do about fat other than education or genocide??? I don't think that just saying f*ck it, your kid is fat, so he shouldn't be in a car seat is dumb. If they don't make a seat the kids fit in, they just won't use them. That is more unhealthy. I understand the epidemic and the issues, I just don't understand the mentality that if we ignore it, it will just go away. Just because they make them bigger, people are not going to say, hey, I'll get fat so I can use that.

no they wont say that, but they will be very happy to knowthat they dont have to lose weight in order to use it.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

no they wont say that, but they will be very happy to knowthat they dont have to lose weight in order to use it.

Exactly. I remember a news story from the UK awhile back about a guy that won an F1 Jaguar race car. (It was a few seasons old...but still.....it was bad ass!!!) The dude was about 300-some odd pounds ...I think...anyway, he couldn't fit in it, so he made the decision to lose weight so that he could drive it around a track. Don't know if he ever did, but I thought that was pretty cool.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_22-1-2003_pg9_11

 

[DRB]

We are talking about child seats..... you know the things that keep children from becoming windshield projectiles.....

 

[Toshi]

here's food for thought: in 2000 obesity lead to ~365,000 premature deaths in the u.s.

http://scholar.google.com/url?sa=U&q=http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/293/3/293.pdf

 

[Secret Squirrel]

We are talking about child seats..... you know the things that keep children from becoming windshield projectiles.....

Well...they will be larger than normal windshield projectiles now.

 

[JRB]

here's food for thought: in 2000 obesity lead to ~365,000 premature deaths in the u.s.

http://scholar.google.com/url?sa=U&q=http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/293/3/293.pdf

Not registering to read it, but I'll look up stats for people that died from smoking related issues in 2000. They still sell cigarettes, you know???

 

[JRB]

Yup - my number is bigger than yours, Toshi.

Cigarette Smoking-Attributable Morbidity --- United States, 2000

Each year in the United States, approximately 440,000 persons die of a cigarette smoking-attributable illness, resulting in 5.6 million years of potential life lost, $75 billion in direct medical costs, and $82 billion in lost productivity (1). To assess smoking-attributable morbidity, the Roswell Park Cancer Institute, Research Triangle Institute, and CDC analyzed data from three sources: the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS), the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey III (NHANES III), and the U.S. Census. This report summarizes the results of that analysis, which indicate that an estimated 8.6 million persons in the United States have serious illnesses attributed to smoking; chronic bronchitis and emphysema account for 59% of all smoking-attributable diseases. These findings underscore the need to expand surveillance of the disease burden caused by smoking and to establish comprehensive tobacco-use prevention and cessation efforts to reduce the adverse health impact of smoking.

 

[binary visions]

Not registering to read it, but I'll look up stats for people that died from smoking related issues in 2000. They still sell cigarettes, you know???

And again, this is a moot point.

Just because there are other things that kill people doesn't mean that this issue shouldn't be dealt with.

You can't solve everything at once. That's why you take one step at a time, to deal with the individual issues.

There are tens of thousands of organizations out there devoted to stopping smoking. If you're so passionate about this particular issue, how much are you contributing to them?

 

[JRB]

And again, this is a moot point.

Just because there are other things that kill people doesn't mean that this issue shouldn't be dealt with.

You can't solve everything at once. That's why you take one step at a time, to deal with the individual issues.

My main point is that we COULD solve the tobacco related deaths, but that is not financially possible for today's politicians. Why restrict safety for children by limiting size when they can be sitting there huffing their parents smoke. Tobacco should be banned, period. When that is squared away, I'll bitch about fat kids.

 

[JRB]

<snip>There are tens of thousands of organizations out there devoted to stopping smoking. If you're so passionate about this particular issue, how much are you contributing to them?

Why should I contribute??? There are so many constraints in place by the government to keep people safe, yadda yadda, but nothing for this. I refuse to spend my money when the government is so adament about supporting the industry.

 

[robdamanii]

We should worry about fat people because they cost me money. #1 health problem in this country is due to fat people. Fat people make health insurance rates higher. I (my company) doesn't pay less for me because I am not fat but pays the rate for the average fat ****er.

Everyone pays for the fat ****s on medicair and medicaid.

Could not have said it better myself.

When people stop smoking and drinking heavily, we can focus on fat. I am pretty sure that high risk sports, like mountain biking, raise premiums a bit as well. Find a better argument.

Gee, ya know, I think insurance companies like to know if you're a smoker. And many of them won't cover alcohol induced health problems. Yet they still allow for fat asses to siphon millions of dollars off of them due to their inability to put the fork down. Yet those of us that get out and exercise and eat well, trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle get absolutely NOTHING in return. No incentives, no breaks in premiums. We pay for those fat bastards.

Actually, I do recall reading that a few small companies are offering better premiums for people who live a "healthy lifestyle", whatever they define that as.

 

[JRB]

Could not have said it better myself.



Gee, ya know, I think insurance companies like to know if you're a smoker. And many of them won't cover alcohol induced health problems. Yet they still allow for fat asses to siphon millions of dollars off of them due to their inability to put the fork down. Yet those of us that get out and exercise and eat well, trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle get absolutely NOTHING in return. No incentives, no breaks in premiums. We pay for those fat bastards.

Actually, I do recall reading that a few small companies are offering better premiums for people who live a "healthy lifestyle", whatever they define that as.

You are aware that most health plans penalize obesity, right??? Dumb argument, given that fact.

 

[Toshi]

i agree that not allowing mfgs to make large car seats won't do anything except lead to more kids needlessly dying in car wrecks, but you really don't have a leg to stand on w/ your other point, loco. as bv said, it is possible and productive to address multiple public health issues at once.

furthermore, to echo westy, there are already mechanisms in place to curb smoking and alcoholism (taxes, smoking ban, public service announcements, etc.). there should be a comparable effort to limit obesity since the numbers clearly show that it's a public health issue on the order of smoking.

 

[JRB]

i agree that not allowing mfgs to make large car seats won't do anything except lead to more kids needlessly dying in car wrecks, but you really don't have a leg to stand on w/ your other point, loco. as bv said, it is possible and productive to address multiple public health issues at once.

furthermore, to echo westy, there are already mechanisms in place to curb smoking and alcoholism (taxes, smoking ban, public service announcements, etc.). there should be a comparable effort to limit obesity since the numbers clearly show that it's a public health issue on the order of smoking.

I kind of thought there was an initiative to increase awareness of obesity. Like everyone said, it takes time.

 

[robdamanii]

Do you think that is incited at school as well??? I don't just blame parents. Having a 3 month old and not knowing at what age she'll start doing, I don't know how an infant or a toddler knows how to exercise.

Dude, do you need to learn how to run around and just spend energy? Jesus man, 2 year olds are great at that, why does it stop?

And it's not a goddamned issue of penalizing fat asses, it's that THEY are making my premiums more because of their obesity. Penalize them to hell and give me even a 5% cut for actually exercising more than bi-annually.

 

[Westy]

Really fat people are an eyesore too. I don't like having to look at them

 

[JRB]

Dude, do you need to learn how to run around and just spend energy? Jesus man, 2 year olds are great at that, why does it stop?

And it's not a goddamned issue of penalizing fat asses, it's that THEY are making my premiums more because of their obesity. Penalize them to hell and give me even a 5% cut for actually exercising more than bi-annually.

So - by this logic, you think the parents make the 2 year olds sit on the couch??? I doubt that.

Do you pay a premium for mountain biking??? It is an extreme sport, and you are more likely to use insurance than say, a golfer, but you likely don't pay a premium. Again, bad argument.

 

[JRB]

Really fat people are an eyesore too. I don't like having to look at them

Don't you have a fat dog???

 

[PonySoldier]

So - by this logic, you think the parents make the 2 year olds sit on the couch??? I doubt that.

Do you pay a premium for mountain biking??? It is an extreme sport, and you are more likely to use insurance than say, a golfer, but you likely don't pay a premium. Again, bad argument.

No, the golfer is more likely to be obese than the mountain biker..

Again, bad argument...

 

[robdamanii]

So - by this logic, you think the parents make the 2 year olds sit on the couch??? I doubt that.

Do you pay a premium for mountain biking??? It is an extreme sport, and you are more likely to use insurance than say, a golfer, but you likely don't pay a premium. Again, bad argument.

Do they make them sit on the couch? Absolutely not. Do they buy them sh!t like a playstation and feed them crap like TV dinners and McDonald's burgers? You bet. Combining a taught laziness with taught awful dietary habits will make them fat. And kids look up to their parents. Don't you think they see them as morbidly obese and think "hey, that's ok for me to be like that 'cause mom is like that"?

And FYI, I do not pay a premium for biking. I do pay a premium as a diver, however. In fact, I have entirely separate insurance coverage as a diver.

And the reason you don't pay a premium as a biker is, again, the benefits of the aerobic exercise involved FAR outweigh the cost. They know someone with a healthy lifestyle will cost FAR less in the long term than a sedentary sofa blob. And think about this: If you do submit a claim to them, there is no guarantee that they will pay it, either. I've had sports related injuries that have been out of pocket in the past (different coverage).

Could they charge a premium for it? Sure. Do they? Nope. Should they? Depends how much you use your insurance for bike related injuries. Should they charge extra premiums for people who are morbidly obese with asthma, COPD, diabetes and high cholesterol? You bet your ass. Should people who are free of such diseases and lead a healthy lifestyle, who are rarely if ever sick and who exercise and take care of themselves get a reduced premium? Hell yes.

 

[Jeremy R]

I agree that it is a concern. I don't think it is the largest contributing factor, but that may change as I read more.

There is no need for you to read more on this issue.
Obesity is the largest contributing factor (from a risk standpoint) to the increasing rise in health insurance costs. I know this for a fact,
because it is my field. I sell alot of individual health insurance policies to the self-employed and their families. I know all about the underwriting guidelines, and how they "manage" risk.
These things can get declined for so much as one expensive monthly prescription.
Anyway, when you smoke, they penalize you on average of 30% more. Its cut and dry. Smoking is unhealthy, and you pay more to do so. I have dealt with both smokers and drinkers of course, but nothing like I go through with the Obesity issue. You can't imagine how high of a percentage it actually is.
These health insurance companies have height/weight guidelines, and if you are too far over, then you get DECLINED for health insurance. That's right, just for being fat. You are considered more at risk than a smoker and you very well should be.
I can't tell the number of people that I have dealt with who are being treated for high blood pressure, and type 2 Diabetes they have said, "My Dr. says that if I lost the weight that I would not have either condition."
Fat people are at risk for heart problems, sugar problems, stroke problems, ortho problems - cankles, knees, back etc... and so on.
And it is not getting any better.
How many more of those "Don Vito" scooters do you keep seeing just for obese people? Its out of control.

 

[JRB]

There is no need for you to read more on this issue.
Obesity is the largest contributing factor (from a risk standpoint) to the increasing rise in health insurance costs. I know this for a fact,
because it is my field. I sell alot of individual health insurance policies to the self-employed and their families. I know all about the underwriting guidelines, and how they "manage" risk.
These things can get declined for so much as one expensive monthly prescription.
Anyway, when you smoke, they penalize you on average of 30% more. Its cut and dry. Smoking is unhealthy, and you pay more to do so. I have dealt with both smokers and drinkers of course, but nothing like I go through with the Obesity issue. You can't imagine how high of a percentage it actually is.
These health insurance companies have height/weight guidelines, and if you are too far over, then you get DECLINED for health insurance. That's right, just for being fat. You are considered more at risk than a smoker and you very well should be.
I can't tell the number of people that I have dealt with who are being treated for high blood pressure, and type 2 Diabetes they have said, "My Dr. says that if I lost the weight that I would not have either condition."
Fat people are at risk for heart problems, sugar problems, stroke problems, ortho problems - cankles, knees, back etc... and so on.
And it is not getting any better.
How many more of those "Don Vito" scooters do you keep seeing just for obese people? Its out of control.

I agree that there is a large problem, but that is something that the health care providers should penalize for. I don't think that a child should be punished for not fitting in a car seat is my point. I plan to learn how to help Caroline eat healthy, and so should other parents, but to sit around and just bash on fat people like folks do here is stupid. My point is that there are other issues that never get mentioned. I don't think I am better than most fat people, because they are fat. And yes - if I think they are fat, they really are.

 

[robdamanii]

I agree that there is a large problem, but that is something that the health care providers should penalize for. I don't think that a child should be punished for not fitting in a car seat is my point. I plan to learn how to help Caroline eat healthy, and so should other parents, but to sit around and just bash on fat people like folks do here is stupid. My point is that there are other issues that never get mentioned. I don't think I am better than most fat people, because they are fat. And yes - if I think they are fat, they really are.

We're talking insurance premiums at the moment, not fat kids. I do believe that if the kid can't fit in the damned carseat, he's got a lot more to worry about than becoming a projectile. Do I care if they make the seats? Not really, it's not my business or my problem. I do care that fat parents are sucking money out of my pocket and teaching their kids to do the same thing. And I don't think these fatasses will take notice until you start hitting them in the wallet, where it hurts.

And I'll continue to bug fat people about being fat, just like I bug smokers about smoking and heavy drinkers about drinking.

Edit: And how can health care providers penalize someone for being fat? They can't refuse them treatment, they can't charge differently...it's unethical. Care to elaborate on that?

 

[Westy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We can solve two problems with one solution. Integrated liposuction/human fat rendering facilities. Swing by the local BP get thinner and a tank full of renewable human biodiesel.

 

[Tenchiro]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We can solve two problems with one solution. Integrated liposuction/human fat rendering facilities. Swing by the local BP get thinner and a tank full of renewable human biodiesel.

Do we really want our cars to smell like fat kids?

 

[Westy]

Do we really want our cars to smell like fat kids?

You mean burning fat kids. That would be awesome. It would be even cooler if they engine made the sound of screaming wheezy fat kids .

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Edit: And how can health care providers penalize someone for being fat? They can't refuse them treatment, they can't charge differently...it's unethical. Care to elaborate on that?

Not health care providers, insurance companies refuse to underwrite your fat ass policy...

Edit: Oh...i c....that was a question to loco....well, let's see how this goes...

 

[JRB]

Not health care providers, insurance companies refuse to underwrite your fat ass policy...

Edit: Oh...i c....that was a question to loco....well, let's see how this goes...

I meant health care policy providers. I missed a word.


Rob - why not refuse to treat them, or charge them more??? It can't be unethical since they are all f*cking criminals. Or is it just the way you come across??? You act like they are breaking some sort of law. You may as well go Milosevic on them now. Down with the fatty. :mumble:

 

[Tenchiro]

You mean burning fat kids. That would be awesome. It would be even cooler if they engine made the sound of screaming wheezy fat kids .

That would of course be aceptable.

 

[Westy]

That would of course be aceptable.

Instead of normal brakes you could just throw a fat kid tied to a rope out the door like an anchor.

 

[Tenchiro]

I would actually just make them pull me around Dogsled style.

 

[Westy]

I would actually just make them pull me around Dogsled style.

But then they wouldn't be fat kids anymore. But I'm sure the market would bring better prices for a skinny kid. It could be a profitable venture.

 

[Tenchiro]

But then they wouldn't be fat kids anymore. But I'm sure the market would bring better prices for a skinny kid. It could be a profitable venture.

This is America, there will always be fat kids. The only challenge will be the turnover rate and retraining.

 

[robdamanii]

I meant health care policy providers. I missed a word.


Rob - why not refuse to treat them, or charge them more??? It can't be unethical since they are all f*cking criminals. Or is it just the way you come across??? You act like they are breaking some sort of law. You may as well go Milosevic on them now. Down with the fatty. :mumble:

I never said they were "f*cking criminals". I explicitly stated that they piss me the hell off for being so damned laissez faire about their health, and thereby driving up the insurance premiums of people who actually give a damn. Believe me, if I could force these fat bastards into fat camps, and it lowered insurance rates by MAKING them healthy, I would.

I really don't give a damn what they shove in their face, or how many heart attacks they have, but when they start affecting MY chequebook, I start to get annoyed.

 

[JRB]

I never said they were "f*cking criminals". I explicitly stated that they piss me the hell off for being so damned laissez faire about their health, and thereby driving up the insurance premiums of people who actually give a damn. Believe me, if I could force these fat bastards into fat camps, and it lowered insurance rates by MAKING them healthy, I would.

I really don't give a damn what they shove in their face, or how many heart attacks they have, but when they start affecting MY chequebook, I start to get annoyed.

Again - they are not the only thing that affects your costs. There is already an effort in place to heighten awareness. It won't fix itself overnight. Acting like you are superior isn't going to fix the problem though.

 

[Westy]

Again - they are not the only thing that affects your costs. There is already an effort in place to heighten awareness. It won't fix itself overnight. Acting like you are superior isn't going to fix the problem though.

In a way by not being fat someone is healthier, can most likely perform at a higher physical level, demonstrates better self control and application of knowledge. Although it may not be polite to act superior, it probably is the truth.

 

[robdamanii]

Again - they are not the only thing that affects your costs. There is already an effort in place to heighten awareness. It won't fix itself overnight. Acting like you are superior isn't going to fix the problem though.

There have been efforts in place to heighten awareness for years. The dangers are well known. Most of them just don't care to try and basically refuse to do anything about it.

And why shouldn't I act superior? I eat well, I exercise, I take care of myself; I'm proud of that, and I damn well AM superior to someone who cares nothing for their body. If you want to feel sorry for them, that's your business. If they won't do anything to change, then I feel nothing for them.

 

[JRB]

In a way by not being fat someone is healthier, can most likely perform at a higher physical level, demonstrates better self control and application of knowledge. Although it may not be polite to act superior, it probably is the truth.

Not if your job is to hold things down in a wind storm.