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RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
Just a wee bit more... it's waaaafer thin (is that a python reference?) :bonk:

CELEBRATING UN-PRESIDENT’S DAY: WHY I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A PRESIDENT IN 2008
By Carolyn Baker

CONTINUED

You Have No Right To Complain If You Don’t Vote
This nonsensical and frightening platitude sounds as if it might have been taken from Joseph Goebbel’s propaganda playbook. What kind of tortured logic concludes that I can only complain about a rotting political system if I play by its rules? Whoever invented this notion had undoubtedly never read the Founding Fathers who asserted in no uncertain terms that if my government has become the enemy of the Constitution, it is not only prudent, but obligatory to “alter and abolish it.”
I have every right to complain about “choices” that aren’t really choices and election charades that distract my attention from issues that corporate clones dare not touch—like the 200 species that went extinct today and the million innocent citizens of Iraq who’ve died since 2003 and the unprecedented numbers of U.S. military suicides in the same period of time and the carcinogenic bovine growth hormones in my genetically engineered lunch and the guy down the street who blew his brains out over mortgage foreclosure and bankruptcy resulting from having no health insurance and the polar bears that drowned today because their ice shelves had melted away. All of this happened while the election distraction served the same purpose as mainstream media coverage of Britney Spears’ latest psychotic episode or the true confessions of yet another steroid-crazed athlete.

I will complain—I will scream and rant bitch and whine, and I won’t shut up, and what I will complain most loudly about is a culture where citizens get what they settle for because they refuse to face the reality that the system is completely rigged against them, and they prolong their own agony by hanging on to the fantasy of business as usual as their empire, well into collapse, sucks the last drops of their blood and rides off into a Stage Five smog-alert sunset to rape and pillage and plunder the rest of the planet in the name of things like “democracy”, “the two-party system”, “Super Tuesday”, and let’s not forget, “the first female president.”
No, I won’t be voting for a president of the United States in 2008. Should I be able to use a paper ballot, I may well vote for state and local officials in a venue where authentic choice exists.

But it’s only the nasty Republicans who rig elections, right? Well, have you noticed how cozy Bill Clinton and Poppy Bush have become since Bubba left office? The mind reels imagining those intimate afternoon conversations between Bill and Poppy on Senior’s yacht.
“So what’s on your mind Bill? Do you mind if I call you Bill?”
“No, not at all sir. Well sir, I’ve been thinking a lot about 2008, and I know you know a lot about these things.”
“Yes son, I do, and trust me, everything’s under control.”
Sorry, I couldn’t help verbalizing my fantasy. It’s all so touching. Do you feel the love?
And now Hillary wants to send them off together in the first few weeks of her presidency to repair the damage done around the world by Junior? It’s enough to make one feel warm and fuzzy all over, isn’t it?

I think my cousin said it best when I asked if she planned to vote for a president this year.
“Me vote?” she replied.
“No, not when my only choices are between Satan and the devil.”
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
In all seriousness, I have been a moderate conservative type for years but was liking what i was seeing from Obama. Then in my mind, he flips the flop and picks a career good ol boy as veep. So much for the "change".

Now, McCain passes on several, not one but several very qualified and well like candidates to put a pander vote getter on his ticket? Inexperience? you think?

The veep selection is obviously more important in the case of McCain in regards to someone actually possibly having to take over.

For once, just once, I'd like either of them to make a decision based on what is good for the country.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,092
1,132
NC
In all seriousness, I have been a moderate conservative type for years but was liking what i was seeing from Obama. Then in my mind, he flips the flop and picks a career good ol boy as veep. So much for the "change".
Why is that flip-flopping? You don't pick a teammate who is the same as you. You pick a teammate who has something to compliment your skills.

I think it was a great idea to pick a long-experienced politician as his VP.

But if you don't have a choice you can feel comfortable voting for, then what? Lesser of two evils?

I'm pretty sure that's how we got to where we are today..
So? Not voting isn't even going as far as picking the lesser of two evils. How is abstaining any more productive than voting for someone who is simply a better choice than your other option?
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Agreed with BV.


A choice of the lesser of 2 evils is certainly better than the worst of 2 evils should "your side" not vote, is it not?

Also, Palin is a terrible speaker, wow. Just saw her on CNN, terrible.

Agreed however, the VP selection by McCain is terrible and was clearly made simply for diversity on the ticket to help him win. If he kicks the bucket, America is screwed. She has 0 exerience and has barely been governor (of ALASKA???) for more than 18 months.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
But if you don't have a choice you can feel comfortable voting for, then what? Lesser of two evils?

I'm pretty sure that's how we got to where we are today..
Why should there be only two choices? Bad or worse... sounds great to me.

This is America™! Why can't we have the freedom to hear about ALL the candiates? Why do we listen to the media who tell us these are our only choices?

:disgust1: bunch of carp if you ask me.

Yours in disgust,
RenegadeRick
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
RenegadeRick's long and unreadable post said:
blah blah blah blah
please don't tell me you actually expected us to read that....

and issues with the 2 party system? have you SEEN a parliamentary system that actually works? ever? the more stable ones still have only two viable parties, except that since one party controls the entire government the political spectrum gets jerked way way WAY over to one side. otherwise you have the wonderful coalition systems, which means that small, backwards, fringe parties get all of the government attention and funding, since it's basically a bribe to stay in the government.
 
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X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Why is that flip-flopping? You don't pick a teammate who is the same as you. You pick a teammate who has something to compliment your skills.
I think it was a great idea to pick a long-experienced politician as his VP.
For months he has sold himself as not a Washington insider, not a 'player' in the career Senators and Representatives circles. Long experienced sure, but there are plenty of those politicians at the state and local levels.


So? Not voting isn't even going as far as picking the lesser of two evils. How is abstaining any more productive than voting for someone who is simply a better choice than your other option?
It isn't unless the entire populace felt the same way and all stayed home. Not even close to happening. If someone chooses not to vote, it will make no difference at all. We haven't had a one person, one vote system in years, so really, one of us going to the polls is largely symbolic in nature in relation to the overall system.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Why should there be only two choices? Bad or worse... sounds great to me.

This is America™! Why can't we have the freedom to hear about ALL the candiates? Why do we listen to the media who tell us these are our only choices?

:disgust1: bunch of carp if you ask me.

Yours in disgust,
RenegadeRick
Rick,

I looked over Carolyn Baker's website. She doesn't even mention where she is from.

Do you think a person who doesn't even represent her community has influence on my politics?
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Good resume points..

In an interview just a month ago, she dissed the job, saying it didn’t seem “productive.”

In fact, she said she didn’t know what the vice president does.

Larry Kudlow of CNBC’s “Kudlow & Co.” asked her about the possibility of becoming McCain's ticket mate.

Palin replied: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.”
Because Alaska politics has been a real swell model for the way we ought to run the rest of the country.

And the real reason she was picked, not that she's qualified to be President...

Her evident distaste for the office would be part of her appeal: It would show McCain is running an anti-Washington, reformist campaign.
Before Palin’s election in December 2006 as the state’s first woman governor, she served two terms on the city council of Wasilla, Alaska (population 6,700), and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
One more thing too:

Obama was not the clear choice for President. 8 years ago he had to buy a ticket to go the DNC.

How did he become the Democratic candidate? He worked at it.

Well, you can point out <insert name here> as a better choice, but I don't see that person playing to rich people, playing to the poor people, playing to all races and all the political viewpoints.

Obama convinced people that he is qualified to be President. It wasn't something given to him.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
please don't tell me you actually expected us to read that....

and issues with the 2 party system? have you SEEN a parliamentary system that actually works? ever? the more stable ones still have only two viable parties, except that since one party controls the entire government the political spectrum gets jerked way way WAY over to one side. otherwise you have the wonderful coalition systems, which means that small, backwards, fringe parties get all of the government attention and funding, since it's basically a bribe to stay in the government.
Erm, come on up to America's hat. Our parlimentary system is stable, works quite well and has 3-4 viable parties at all times. (Liberal, Conservative, NDP, Bloc Quebecois). There is about 20 parties on top of them, who have no chance (green party, libertarian, communist, marijuana, marxist etc).

In fact, the liberals and conservatives have been deadlocked for parlimentary control for the last few years as they are seperated by just a few seats in the house, and many members cross party lines in votes. That, and the Bloc sides with however they want to serve their own interests.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,092
1,132
NC
For months he has sold himself as not a Washington insider, not a 'player' in the career Senators and Representatives circles. Long experienced sure, but there are plenty of those politicians at the state and local levels.
Obama is not running for office at the state and local level. Complimenting his relative inexperience with someone who has long seen and is familiar with the inner workings of the federal offices will give him a broader knowledge. to draw from.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
I'm sorry, you were saying?


OTTAWA (Reuters) - The Bloc Quebecois said on Friday it had concluded that Prime Minister Stephen Harper would likely make an early election call.


Harper, whose minority government needs the support of at least one opposition party to pass legislation and stay in power, has asked for meetings with opposition leaders to see if there is common ground that would make the fall session of Parliament productive.

Harper has increasingly said that Parliament is dysfunctional and suggested he may trigger a general election to provide a fresh mandate. He has been considering launching the campaign next week for a vote on October 14.
 

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My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Yes, this is how a parliamentary system is SUPPOSED to work. This is the entire point of this style system. People have to agree on things and work together to get things done. Harper is a douche and thinks it is dysfunctional because no one (including much of his own party) does not agree with the direction he is trying to steer things.

It means a minority govt, which realistically reflects the voting public's will in it's "minorityness", cannot pass insane laws. The US could use some of this actual representation instead of the dubya does whatever he feels like governing they have been getting.
 
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Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Also, Palin is mental.

From a Wired article.
l candidate Sarah Palin wants creationism taught in science classes.
In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska trotted out the usual creationist education canard: "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Yes, this is how a parlimentary system is SUPPOSED to work. It means a minority govt, which realistically reflects the voting public's will, cannot pass insane laws. The US could use some of this actual representation.
Sorry, I like the stability of knowing when my elections are going to be held. Regardless of how unpopular a government is, you know you'll have a chance in 2 years to change part of it, and change the whole makeup of government every 4 years. For elections to be held when the PM decides its most advantageous to his party really doesn't cut it...

And I still think you guys hand WAY too much over to the Bloc Quebecois by the way.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Sorry, I like the stability of knowing when my elections are going to be held. Regardless of how unpopular a government is, you know you'll have a chance in 2 years to change part of it, and change the whole makeup of government every 4 years. For elections to be held when the PM decides its most advantageous to his party really doesn't cut it...

And I still think you guys hand WAY too much over to the Bloc Quebecois by the way.
There is a maximum amount of time between elections (5 years). Traditionally however, elections are held every 4 years. While the liberals were in power, it was about every 3 1/2. It can be much more often than that if things aren't working out or if there is a vote of non-confidence from the majority of the house.

Sounds like a better solution to me not having to deal with 4 more years of dubya. Oh, and the campaign is only 36 days long, instead of 2+ years.
 
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Arutha

Monkey
Nov 26, 2002
113
0
Western PA
I think there's other good points to McCain's pick.

She hasn't been in politics long enough to be corrupted.... I think her whole career started from joining the PTA and getting things done. She has 5 kids, one in the armed services and one with dow syndrome (not sure I spelled that right) She's the typical american mom, she is even a coach.

Taking the feds to court to drill in an area the size of LAX airport(that's what I read not sure it's true) for oil... and only in office 18 months... That's pretty good if you ask me. I do love animals but they can adapt.

And what experience is truely needed when you get right down to it? Businesses paying you to support their causes and flopping on views? That's what experience is. Hell we might as well get the president of some not for profit company in there, most of them are just as corrupt as our politicians, all in the name of a good cause.

Oh and the banks do make the decisions so really it doesn't matter.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
And what experience is truely needed when you get right down to it? Businesses paying you to support their causes and flopping on views? That's what experience is. Hell we might as well get the president of some not for profit company in there, most of them are just as corrupt as our politicians, all in the name of a good cause.

Oh and the banks do make the decisions so really it doesn't matter.
SHH, adults are speaking.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,092
1,132
NC
And what experience is truely needed when you get right down to it? Businesses paying you to support their causes and flopping on views? That's what experience is.<snip>

Oh and the banks do make the decisions so really it doesn't matter.
omg i no rite?!??
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
pretty much. earlier she insulted Hillary Clinton (way to get those HRC voters), proposed teaching creationism, and is under investigation for the improper firing of the chief of police...

McCain really picked a winner this time.
Her political experience is as follows:

-PTA Member
-City Council, 2 years
-Mayor of a town of 6700 people, 2 years (fires police chief who is in custody battle with her sister)
-Alaska Governor, 18 months
-Candidate for VP of the USA


WTF? Who sees a problem here?
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
I'm moving to canada.
The faster the better.

So? Not voting isn't even going as far as picking the lesser of two evils. How is abstaining any more productive than voting for someone who is simply a better choice than your other option?
Agreed with BV.


A choice of the lesser of 2 evils is certainly better than the worst of 2 evils should "your side" not vote, is it not?
You two somehow think voting makes one iota of difference. Isn't that cute?
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Ohhh man, this is getting better and better.

Palin appears like the Harriet Meirs of VPs. She's woefully unqualified and her only purpose is to redirect the attention away from the main target. If the Presidential race were basketball, she would be good for 6 fouls, nothing more. Now I suppose the only question is, from where is she redirecting the attention? McCain's age, old ballz, "alternate energy" plan, flip-flopping, etc...
 

Arutha

Monkey
Nov 26, 2002
113
0
Western PA
SHH, adults are speaking.
I write like a kid I know. I was told that in college many years ago.

My point is politicians are like a cross between attorneys and salemen. It doesn't matter who they are, they're all fake and swayed by money. I've met quite a few politicians, US Senate , House, governor, and a director of homeland security and wouldn't trust a single one.

And sadly I agree with RenegadeRick on how our government actually works.

She does have nice legs though.