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McCain votes against ban on waterboarding

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
1
Denver
McCain pounced on his friend and former opponent for the Republican nomination. As someone who spent five years as a prisoner of war in a North Vietnamese prison camp where he said he was the subject of beatings and harsh interrogations, McCain has long spoke passionately on the issue.

“All I can say is that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition, it was used in Pol Pot’s genocide in Cambodia, and there are reports that it is being used against Buddhist monks today,” McCain said in interview with the New York Times in response to Giuliani comments. “They should know what it is. It is not a complicated procedure. It is torture.”

But on Wednesday, when the Senate voted on the intelligence bill, which includes a provision that effectively bans waterboarding from being used as an interrogation technique by all 16 intelligence agencies, McCain voted against the bill.

The bill passed 51-45, but President Bush has promised to veto it.
Interesting that McCain is now saying that torture is okay.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,890
4
Hypernormality
I believe their were some other provisions in the bill he objected to, something about the Army Field Manual or such?

Still you would have thought the torture would have trumped that...
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,644
661
Front Range, dude...
He knows firsthand what torture can and cant do...there must be more to the story. I say we simply take a blowtorch to peoples balls. That failing, bring out the red hot poker. I mean, why **** around?
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
If we can't water board em, how would we get info? Buy them a latte? :p
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,529
3,309
Sleazattle
With all the crap they put in bills you can't really blame him. It would be more damning if he voted for a bill that had language to OK'd torture.
 

3D.

Monkey
Feb 23, 2006
899
0
Chinafornia USA
Interesting that McCain is now saying that torture is okay.
"who spent five years as a prisoner of war in a North Vietnamese prison camp where he said he was the subject of beatings and harsh interrogations"

it's important for us to have a man with a strong military background... some who can perfect our current strategies and refine our field practices... gosh darn it, someone who can build character in our soldiers.:bonk:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
if waterboarding is indeed controlled drowing, how can this be a legitimate form of 'rough interrogation', yet mock executions not?

they're both used to convince someone they're going to die (even if the handlers say before boarding you'll not die, your instincts don't betray you).

so that's where i am for now.

"stuck in the middle with you..."
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
1
Denver
With all the crap they put in bills you can't really blame him. It would be more damning if he voted for a bill that had language to OK'd torture.
yup, the legislation was waterboarded itself. McCain's reasoning sounded reasonable to me. For one thing, waterboarding is already illegal.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,791
35
Japan
So either torture works or it doesn't. If, according to the frothers, it's such an effective technique, why don't they go the whole hog, you know alligator clips on the yam bag connected to hand cranked generators etc. Surely that would work much better? After all, the end justifies the means right?
The arguement that it's not really torture sounds to me like the idea that you can get a little bit raped, completely f*cking retarded.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,060
62
chez moi
Hmmm. I've been waterboarded. Did it suck? Yeah. Do I think it was torture? Nope. But there's an issue of context--COULD you torture someone with waterboarding? Easily. Could it be part of a larger, torturous experience? Hell yes.

But there's no black-and-white line where the definition of torture is reached.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,060
62
chez moi
Just a normal Saturday night at Mike's Leather and Latex Lounge...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,004
2,027
yup, the legislation was waterboarded itself. McCain's reasoning sounded reasonable to me. For one thing, waterboarding is already illegal.
uh, did you miss the administration's announcement this week that they wouldn't rule out the use of waterboarding? ie, even after everyone and their mom seemingly came to the conclusion that waterboarding was indeed torture and shouldn't be allowed, they came out and said that they don't think rules should apply to them?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/08/national/main3807334.shtml
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
Hmmm. I've been waterboarded. Did it suck? Yeah. Do I think it was torture? Nope. But there's an issue of context--COULD you torture someone with waterboarding? Easily. Could it be part of a larger, torturous experience? Hell yes.

But there's no black-and-white line where the definition of torture is reached.
Well, either it was really unpleasant and terrifying to the point where you feared for your health/life, in which case it's torture (with all of the associated arguments against quality of intel...).

Or it was not so terrifying that you feared for your life, in which case I question the purpose. If it's "mild" how does that aid the interrogation? "Ooh, ohh, you're making my face wet. I just gagged a little." Not much worse than amateur porn, really. Honest question, because the closest I've come to interrogating anyone is tickle-torture until I gets my BJ.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
because the closest I've come to interrogating anyone is tickle-torture until I gets my BJ.
i think if you tickle the epiglottis i think everyone wins. you'll still have to negotiate the happy ending, however.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Put me in the "For Water Boarding" column on this..

I think it's a non issue that's desperately looking for an outcry of rage.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,848
0
Orange County, CA
Put me in the "For Water Boarding" column on this..

I think it's a non issue that's desperately looking for an outcry of rage.
Not a huge surprise. You've already come out in favor of aggressive war and collective punishment in the past, so I wouldn't expect a little torture to bother you.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Put me in the "For Water Boarding" column on this..

I think it's a non issue that's desperately looking for an outcry of rage.
while there may exist an element of manufactured outrage from some, can you see where the remainder reasonably conclude that it is torture?

for me, i walked through a few questions:
- where do you compare mock executions (i assume we agree it's torture unless you tell me): less, as, or more severe?
- is waterboarding classified as "rough treatment", like belly-slaps, an occasional sucker punch, or shaking?
- how does waterboarding compare to torture light (prolonged physically uncomfortable treatment)
- can you still torture and not leave any physiological tracks?
- can we justify any interrogation method just because some of us may voluntarily be subjected to it?
- is a method not deemed tortuous just because johnny knoxville does it to himself?

whadaya think?