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Mechanical ? 888/HS

So I've been wondering and pounding my head into the workbench for quite a while now trying to figure out how to keep my headset tight. My bike and a customers bike too...

Both are Marz. 888 forks with King Headsets. One on a Cuervo frame the other was on an M1...now on a Cuervo too.


I get them all tightened up and torqued, and within half a dozen runs I've got to retighten the damn thing. All I have to do is loosen the crown/stem bolts and it resets itself and then retorque the bolts. I never have to tighten the star nut bolt, so it's not like the star flange nuts are creeping up the steerer tube.

Anyone got some idea??
I am certain that everything is faced and installed correctly. I'm running no spacers above the Marz. stem either. First thought that maybe the headset spacer above the stem wasn't allowing the stem to tighten fully on the steerer tube.

Would one of those headlocker deals make it any better

Thanks you helpfull bunch of Monkies!:help:
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,287
19
Bay Area, California
I know you know your stuff Myke, but are you giving yourself enough room between the spacers and/or stem to allow it to be tightened a bit more? Also pull the fork and check the lower race, I did once have an issue with the steerer sliding down a hair in the crown not allowing full contact of the race, this issue was with a WB DH<2.
 
Yeah there's about 3-5mm gap from top of steerer tube to top of stem.


And the crown race is slammed all the way down and there's no wear marks on the lower steerer tube where it would be touching anything down there.

Like I said...I'm in a quandry of what to do. It's making me look the fool and it's pissing me off!

We're both big guys 240/250lbs....but not into hucking ourselves or anything like that. Fast and rocky yes...big drops are a no no or us old and fat guys.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,287
19
Bay Area, California
Internal14 said:
Yeah there's about 3-5mm gap from top of steerer tube to top of stem.


And the crown race is slammed all the way down and there's no wear marks on the lower steerer tube where it would be touching anything down there.

Like I said...I'm in a quandry of what to do. It's making me look the fool and it's pissing me off!

We're both big guys 240/250lbs....but not into hucking ourselves or anything like that. Fast and rocky yes...big drops are a no no or us old and fat guys.
Does it appear the the steer may be slipping out from the bottom of the crown? Maybe try to reface the headtube then.
 

in the trees

Turbo Monkey
May 19, 2003
1,210
1
NH
I had the same trouble with a Monster T when using an integrated stem/top crown. I had to tighten my headset after almost every run. The solution - I used a Headlock-type device and never had a problem again. Try it. Woodman makes a nice adjustable version.

toby
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,287
19
Bay Area, California
The thing is the headlock type thing gives you extra security. All the star nut & head lock do is allow you to adjust the headset properly, it serves no other purpose than that, once the upper crown & stem have been tightened the headlock really doesn't do too much. Most people have the misconception they have to crank the bolt for the star-nut or headlock, which really doesn't do anything after the crown & stem are tightened.
 

MVRIDER

Monkey
Sep 23, 2003
249
0
Mtn. View, Ca.
in the trees said:
I had the same trouble with a Monster T when using an integrated stem/top crown. I had to tighten my headset after almost every run. The solution - I used a Headlock-type device and never had a problem again. Try it. Woodman makes a nice adjustable version.

toby

Headlock all the way. I use an Azonic Mtb Short, it solved the problem right away. I hear Woodman's is supposed to be the superior product though.
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,456
10
Same issue with my 888/king on my old gemini DH. I repressed the cups/reducers 2 times before finding a much simpler solution. Put 1 spacer underneith the top crown, should solve the problem. Give that a try if you havent already.
 

in the trees

Turbo Monkey
May 19, 2003
1,210
1
NH
Brian HCM#1 said:
If you're using an intergrated stem the security of the headlock is a little better, but if using a regular stem it doesn't do squat.
Ya, I think that they are important to use with an integrated stem, especially since you don't have the extra clamping power of the standard stem. Even more so for bigger riders.:)

toby
 

skyst3alth

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
866
0
Denver, CO
Banshee Rider has it, for your problem. I have to do that on my bikes, put one or two very small spacers (1-2mm) under the topcrown and ontop of the headset. Works like a charm.

-Adam
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,720
157
NORCAL is the hizzle
I don't know why, but adding a spacer helped me too. (888 with go ride crowns and marz int. stem.) A headlock should not be needed - it might solve the problem but it's just covering up the fact that something is slipping that should not be.

Another thing is that the rubber o-rings on the top cup of the headset can get crushed and allow a slight amount of movement that feels like a loose headset. Sounds goofy but it's true. You can get new o-rings at most decent hardware stores.
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,097
10
Pa. / North Jersey
...yeah - that's weird, I thought I was the only one with bad luck. :)

I have used both the Azonic and Woodman headlocks - right now I'm running the Woodman which is like 34g lighter than the Azonic.

I have a 888RC with the Go-Ride Lowrider crowns, a RF Diabolus stem, and a King No-Threadset, and after a few rides the headset would loosen up. It seemed to go away when I over-tightened the headlock, but this effected my steering, a bit, when I would do the "handlebar test" in a stand.

So putting a small (1-2mm) spacer under the top crown solves this problem??? I'm wondering if maybe the plastic scuff ring that King includes with it's headsets to compensate for poorly faced HT's is causing the slippage... or maybe the metal spacers provide more friction than the scuff ring when forces are applied to it???

(Just to confirm, we are talking about using the metal spacers w/o the plastic scuff ring correct?)
 
Alrighty, there's some good info flowing. Thanks guys.

I do indeed, on both accounts, have the plastic thin King spacer as well as a few 2.5/5mm spacers under the crown, above the king spacer.

Sounding like the Woodman Headlock would solve my issues.

Here's to wishfull thinking!
 

skyst3alth

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
866
0
Denver, CO
S.K.C. said:
...yeah - that's weird, I thought I was the only one with bad luck. :)

I have used both the Azonic and Woodman headlocks - right now I'm running the Woodman which is like 34g lighter than the Azonic.

I have a 888RC with the Go-Ride Lowrider crowns, a RF Diabolus stem, and a King No-Threadset, and after a few rides the headset would loosen up. It seemed to go away when I over-tightened the headlock, but this effected my steering, a bit, when I would do the "handlebar test" in a stand.

So putting a small (1-2mm) spacer under the top crown solves this problem??? I'm wondering if maybe the plastic scuff ring that King includes with it's headsets to compensate for poorly faced HT's is causing the slippage... or maybe the metal spacers provide more friction than the scuff ring when forces are applied to it???

(Just to confirm, we are talking about using the metal spacers w/o the plastic scuff ring correct?)
You still use everything in your headset, just add a spacer ontop of it. You just want to push the topcrown up a mm or two.

-Adam
 

skyst3alth

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
866
0
Denver, CO
Internal14 said:
Alrighty, there's some good info flowing. Thanks guys.

I do indeed, on both accounts, have the plastic thin King spacer as well as a few 2.5/5mm spacers under the crown, above the king spacer.

Sounding like the Woodman Headlock would solve my issues.

Here's to wishfull thinking!
Could the screw unthread itself somehow? I'm all for headlocks, but if a little loc-tite will fix your problem, why not?

-Adam
 
skyst3alth said:
Could the screw unthread itself somehow? I'm all for headlocks, but if a little loc-tite will fix your problem, why not?

-Adam
No, it's not like when I go to adjust it the bolts are not tight. They are still torqued correctly, but that the uppercrown/integrated stem creep up the stanchions/steerer tube.
 

skyst3alth

Monkey
Apr 13, 2004
866
0
Denver, CO
Oooooh I gotcha. I though the whole assembly was coming loose.

In that case a headlock would probably solve your problems. Star nuts are for losers :)

-Adam
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,720
157
NORCAL is the hizzle
I've been riding King headsets for 20 years and have never used the plastic washer. It crushes, that could be your problem.

Star nuts work fine if your fork/stem combo is clamping properly. A headlock may fix the symptom but it doesn't really solve the problem.
 

Biscuit

Turbo Monkey
Feb 12, 2003
1,768
0
Pleasant Hill, CA
My two cents is that an integrated stem puts more "wiggle" stress on the upper crown which tends to work the hs loose.

Since I put a headlocker on (actually a woodman, but same diff) I haven't had any problems.