[Mitch]

I'm sorry if this seems like a obvious answer, but I was just wondering that for a beginner (urban/dj/dh) would I notice much difference between the two? The reason I ask is I tried to order a norco sasquatch friday but norco is all sold out. So now I am deciding between the p2-p3. Obviously the p3 has the better specs, but for a beginner I would be fine just getting the p2 and upgrading as I get better right? or should I just save up for another month and get the p3

 

[Captain Crunch]

I think in PARTICULAR for Urban or DJ bikes, Hydros are a huge mistake. Part of both of those segments of our sport is major bailage/stackage/carnage. The P2 comes with mechs, the P3 with Hydros, and with that I see major chance for hose rippage, caliper chunkage, etc..., whereas with mechs, you just need a cable and you're back in business, it'll take more to thrash a cable in the first place, the entire systems involved cost less and work almost as good, and oh, need I mention rotor compatible?

Uh, that's all I got.

 

[Instigator]

I am with crunchy on this one. Mechanicals would be my choice. Avids are my favorite, strong ease of set up and repair..............

 

[Mitch]

But as for actual performance? (thanks btw for your input)

 

[bigjumper820]

Well as far a actual performance goes, the hydro's obviously are going to have more stopping power, but I have just purchased a P.2 and I don't think that I need any more power than I've already got...Mechanicals are much easier to maintain, just like Steve (Captain Crunch) said, because all you've got to do is replace a broken cable instead of bleeding lines mess of hydros. Don't get me wrong, DH bikes need the power of hydos, but if I were you, I wouldn't be concerned about the power of either, considering what riding you'll be doing, because they're both going to do better than v brakes...that my $.02

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by bigjumper820
Well as far a actual performance goes, the hydro's obviously are going to have more stopping power, but I have just purchased a P.2 and I don't think that I need any more power than I've already got...Mechanicals are much easier to maintain, just like Steve (Captain Crunch) said, because all you've got to do is replace a broken cable instead of bleeding lines mess of hydros. Don't get me wrong, DH bikes need the power of hydos, but if I were you, I wouldn't be concerned about the power of either, considering what riding you'll be doing, because they're both going to do better than v brakes...that my $.02

you are assuming that you have to bleed your brakes constantly. Maybe once a year if you are really on top of things, but you better change your cables at least that often for good performance. I used my hopes for 4 years, only bled the front for a caliper change, and they were fine. Talk about no maint...

I find that most mech brakes go through pads a LOT faster than hydros as well. I don't know exactly why (to provide as good stopping power?). Mech brakes are good if you are on a budget, and they definitly get the job done, but hydros are superior, no doubt. Superior feel and action, modulation, etc. Also, hydros are a good deal lighter, once you add up the 377g calipers, 200g of cables and housing (or more because people tend to run full length housing with mechs, and that stuff is heavy) and 190g levers...you are at like 1200 grams, whereas hayes systems are around 400g for a complete front or rear brake. Not that it is a huge issue, but the mechs are simply not as good in many ways. I ran them for a long time though, and they definitly stop you. Not as much control (modulation) but gobs of power.

 

[Echo]

Originally posted by Jm_
Mech brakes are good if you are on a budget, and they definitly get the job done, but hydros are superior, no doubt. Superior feel and action, modulation, etc.

I challenge you to show me a hydro brake with anywhere near as much modulation adjustability as Avid mechs with Speed Dial levers.

Personally I run mechs on some bikes and hydros on others. They both work fine.

 

[MikeD]

They're both fine. That should be the least important decision point on which to get. (assuming they are avid mechanicals and not another crappy brand.)

I'd rather have Avid mechs than crappy hydros like HFX-9s or cheaper Maguras or something. (although shimano's Deore hydros are awesome at a low price point).

MD

 

[Mitch]

Both bikes come with Hayes brakes.

Specialized P3
----------------------
FRONT BRAKE Hayes HFX-9 full hydraulic disc, 8” rotor

REAR BRAKE Hayes HFX-9 full hydraulic disc, 6” rotor

Specialized p2
-----------------------
FRONT BRAKE Hayes HMX-2 HD, mechanical disc, 8" rotor

REAR BRAKE Hayes HMX-2 XC, mechanical disc, 6" rotor

And i'm just asking a general question about brakes. It is not my deciding factor in getting the bike. I think the fork would be the hugest difference for me between the two. I'm 6ft 200 pounds and am new to the scene so I am not the smoothest guy around. What do you guys think of the p2 package?

 

[Jm_]

Originally posted by Echo
I challenge you to show me a hydro brake with anywhere near as much modulation adjustability as Avid mechs with Speed Dial levers.

Personally I run mechs on some bikes and hydros on others. They both work fine.

just because they are ajustable doesn't mean that they offer the same modulation.

 

[DßR]

Originally posted by Echo
I challenge you to show me a hydro brake with anywhere near as much modulation adjustability as Avid mechs with Speed Dial levers.

Personally I run mechs on some bikes and hydros on others. They both work fine.

There may be a lot of modulation adjustment in a Speed dial lever - BUT - I've never felt a single Avid Mech with 1/10 the modulation control of ANY hydro, Hayes 8" included.

I don't own 'em or set 'em up, but people around here either invariably set them up with zero modulation, or they just aren't capable of much. On the power side though, they'll knock your snot out.....

 

[MikeD]

You can run the avid mechs with the stationary pad pulled back a tad further than the instructions say to give some more modulation. That lets the rotor flex some, with only one pad applied, before it reaches snot-rocket power... (and I think that takes away a little of the overall power of the brake at the same time, but it's not a big deal.)

MD

 

[D_D]

I would look elsewhere to seperate the two bikes. I have seen more broken mechs than hydros but I think that is more due to the quality of the really cheap mechs than anything else. The most vunerable part tends to be the disk and thats the same on both.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Buy Hayes

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Jm_
you are assuming that you have to bleed your brakes constantly.

If you're hacking your lines doing street/jump riding, then yes, you might have to be constantly replacing lines and bleeding brakes.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Originally posted by Brian HCM#1
Buy Hayes

Think you have a typo there.

But here is what I say...hydros run better in the wet; meaning a better year round brake

 

[bigjumper820]

Originally posted by Rik
If you're hacking your lines doing street/jump riding, then yes, you might have to be constantly replacing lines and bleeding brakes.

That's the only point I was trying to make! Thank you!

 

[Mitch]

well i'm a super hack. so

 

[Stiff]

Originally posted by DßR
There may be a lot of modulation adjustment in a Speed dial lever - BUT - I've never felt a single Avid Mech with 1/10 the modulation control of ANY hydro, Hayes 8" included.

I don't own 'em or set 'em up, but people around here either invariably set them up with zero modulation, or they just aren't capable of much. On the power side though, they'll knock your snot out.....

Well I just got a rear Avid 8" mech and will try my best to get maximum modulation out of it. If I can't get it to modulate as well as my XT hydros, it'll be ebayed.

 

[fonseca]

Originally posted by Stiff
Well I just got a rear Avid 8" mech and will try my best to get maximum modulation out of it. If I can't get it to modulate as well as my XT hydros, it'll be ebayed.

Run full housing. Get some good stuff.

I will have been using the same housing and cables for two years come August, and it still feels frictionless. You may pay more for teflon cables and high quality housing initially, but it's cheaper in the long run and makes a big difference in feel.

You shouldn't have a problem wth modulation if you use levers with adjustment.

 

[Stiff]

Originally posted by fonseca
Run full housing. Get some good stuff.

I will have been using the same housing and cables for two years come August, and it still feels frictionless. You may pay more for teflon cables and high quality housing initially, but it's cheaper in the long run and makes a big difference in feel.

You shouldn't have a problem wth modulation if you use levers with adjustment.

Got it all, just waiting for my wheel to come together -- blew up the rim last week. I'm using the old Shimano DX lever that has at least as much cable pull adjustment as the Avid levers. But DBR is right -- every Avid I've also personally tried in this region has mucho power but inadequate modulation. However, most riders of any note don't seem to like much modulation to begin with. Most people with discs have on/off brakes no matter what type they run.

My rear braking technique is so crap that I can't even ride a bike without very gradual, linear (even linear-to-regressive) rear brake modulation. Otherwise I just skid around and crash into everything. If I'm successful in setting these things up, I'll post a how-to.

 

[DßR]

aaahhh, right I forgot about the canti lever thing, hope that works....

 

[nh dude]

Originally posted by Captain Crunch
I think in PARTICULAR for Urban or DJ bikes, Hydros are a huge mistake. Part of both of those segments of our sport is major bailage/stackage/carnage. The P2 comes with mechs, the P3 with Hydros, and with that I see major chance for hose rippage, caliper chunkage, etc..., whereas with mechs, you just need a cable and you're back in business, it'll take more to thrash a cable in the first place, the entire systems involved cost less and work almost as good, and oh, need I mention rotor compatible?

Uh, that's all I got.

i felt the same way for DH
no need to worry about breaking lines with trees and handle bar fist sandwiches

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by BlackDiamond
Think you have a typo there.

But here is what I say...hydros run better in the wet; meaning a better year round brake

I was just seeing if anyone was paying attention.