Michelle Dumaresq gets 7th in WC DH......

bomberz1qr20 · Jun 28, 2004

I'm waiting to see this:

Mont Sainte-Anne World Cup
Downhill
Men
1. Steve Peat (GB), Orange, 2:50.62
2. Sam Hill (Aus), Iron Horse-MadCatz, 2:51.48
3. Nathan Rennie (Aus), Santa Cruz Syndicate, 2:57.29
4. Mickael Pascal (F), Maxxis-MSC, 2:58.86
5. George Atherton (GB), Muddy Fox, 2:59.56
6. Cedric Gracia (F), Siemens-Cannondale, 2:59.83
7. Michelle Dumaresq (Can), Santa Cruz, 3:44.43
8. Jared Rando (Aus), Giant-Pearl Izumi, 3:02.57
9. Justin Havukainen (Aus), 3:05.47
10. Kirt Voreis (USA), Santa Cruz Syndicate, 3:05.59

BikeGeek · Jun 28, 2004

Kind of shoots down the "being an ex-man will give her an unfair advantage over the women" theory doesn't it?

Toshi · Jun 28, 2004

BikeGeek said:
Kind of shoots down the "being an ex-man will give her an unfair advantage over the women" theory doesn't it?

not really. as a man she wouldn't be in the top 10 at a wc...

BikeGeek · Jun 28, 2004

Dingus McGee said:
No, not really. But I don't subscribe to that theory anyway. 7th is a pretty huge finish. I guess Mio would be the person to ask how she feels about it.
If she cracks the top 5 then we will see the human condition scrutinized more fully. I hope she pulls it off.

From past arguments some people made it sound like she would absolutely crush the women because she used to be a man. My statement was directed at those people.

Perhaps it was an advantage? Who really can say? It would be interesting to hear Mio's view.

tmx · Jun 28, 2004

Dingus McGee said:
LOL...that funny.

Also noticed: 2 Athertons, 2 genders, 2 top-10 finishes....not bad.
brother and sister?..."

three athertons, gee, dan (top 20, i think) and rachel. there is outstanding footage of the two boys rocking their local trails in "earthed" and some coverage of rachel in a recent issue of mountain biking uk. edit: yes, siblings.

about michelle...??? surprised that more pro women don't protest.

binary visions · Jun 28, 2004

BikeGeek said:
From past arguments some people made it sound like she would absolutely crush the women because she used to be a man. My statement was directed at those people.

Perhaps it was an advantage? Who really can say? It would be interesting to hear Mio's view.

This has been hashed out in the DH forum a bit but a couple of the better points that were brought up in the thread:

A) You can't make a judgement based on how "good" she is. Otherwise, men would be able to race in the women's circuit as long as they weren't hitting the podium. Either she can race in the woman's circuit, or she can't.

B) 7th in a World Cup is a tremendous finish - in a sense she is "absolutely crush[ing]" the other women. She's not crushing the WC downhillers, but she's crushing the hundreds and hundreds of other top level women racers. That may have nothing to do with her hormones or genetic makeup, but you can't deny that even getting top 10 in a WC race is HUGE.

I guess the only thoughts on the matter that I actually feel strongly about are that s/he has overcome a lot of prejudice and ignorance to be able to try and live a normal life, and for that, I applaud her. The other thought I have, is that she loves to ride and is out there on two wheels doing what she loves to do - also, an admirable thing.

For the rest, I am not qualified to judge.

tmx · Jun 28, 2004

binary visions said:
This has been hashed out in the DH forum a bit but a couple of the better points that were brought up in the thread:

A) You can't make a judgement based on how "good" she is. Otherwise, men would be able to race in the women's circuit as long as they weren't hitting the podium. Either she can race in the woman's circuit, or she can't.

B) 7th in a World Cup is a tremendous finish - in a sense she is "absolutely crush[ing]" the other women. She's not crushing the WC downhillers, but she's crushing the hundreds and hundreds of other top level women racers. That may have nothing to do with her hormones or genetic makeup, but you can't deny that even getting top 10 in a WC race is HUGE.

I guess the only thoughts on the matter that I actually feel strongly about are that s/he has overcome a lot of prejudice and ignorance to be able to try and live a normal life, and for that, I applaud her. The other thought I have, is that she loves to ride and is out there on two wheels doing what she loves to do - also, an admirable thing.

For the rest, I am not qualified to judge.

extremely well said.

i am not qualified though i still pass judgement on the officials who do not see fit to examine this more closely. and i'm confused by the plethora of pro women who do not feel she should be racing in their class though do not file protests at each race. do they not think their voice matters? would be considered? or perhaps they are fearful they will get a scientific answer that would negate their issues??

Wumpus · Jun 28, 2004

chromegoddess said:
about michelle...??? surprised that more pro women don't protest.

Souns like they did --> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/siwomen/2002/november/switching_gears/

BMXman · Jun 28, 2004

binary visions said:
This has been hashed out in the DH forum a bit but a couple of the better points that were brought up in the thread:

A) You can't make a judgement based on how "good" she is. Otherwise, men would be able to race in the women's circuit as long as they weren't hitting the podium. Either she can race in the woman's circuit, or she can't.

EXACTLY IT KIND OF TO LATE TO COMPLAIN NOW THAT'S hE'S DOING WELL...THEY SHOULD HAVE ADDRESSED THIS A LONG TIME AGO...D
(sorry caps lock is broken)

BurlyShirley · Jun 28, 2004

I maintain my stance.

A dude who gets his junk removed and loads up on hormones is just a dude who had his junk removed and loaded up on hormones. It does not eqaul a woman, and If i had finished behind her in any race and I were a woman Id protest.

DRB · Jun 29, 2004

chromegoddess said:
or perhaps they are fearful they will get a scientific answer that would negate their issues??

No they are most likely fearful that the politically correct police would flog them or brand them insensitive or start some campaign against them to their sponsors or throw wet spaghetti at them.

narlus · Jun 29, 2004

from that link, this seems to seal the issue for me:

As it happens, the International Olympic Committee recently abandoned its long-standing policy of gender-testing women athletes to verify their sex because scientists are so far unable to find one single biological indicator that proves in all cases that a woman is really a woman.

if the IOC doesn't think it's an issue, i figure they've got a more sophisticated perspective on things than say NORBA or the UCI.

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Michelle Dumaresq gets 7th in WC DH......

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