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Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
Back to normal winter temps here. Might go group night riding tonight. Been 3-4 years since my last night ride.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
:dead:

Tired. First HVAC quotes came back. $26K & $30K. And that's doesnt include the cost of a propane tank and install..

Oof. I knew it might be high, but not that high. Let's see what companies 2 and 3 yield.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,748
21,209
Canaderp
Headache started last night again and it still there this morning. Ugh.

Still need to get a covid test booked before I'm allowed to go back to work.

Was hoping to attempt a ride tonight. We'll see if that actually happens.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,426
8,511
:dead:

Tired. First HVAC quotes came back. $26K & $30K. And that's doesnt include the cost of a propane tank and install..

Oof. I knew it might be high, but not that high. Let's see what companies 2 and 3 yield.
I looked it up and the tax credit for air source heat pumps expired with the new year. It was only $300 anyway.

there’s still a tax credit if you go for the big boy ground source system!


/me is being driven to Empire, where I’ll take over from the wife. Ski day with just her for three Wednesdays in a row
 

sunringlerider

Turbo Monkey
Oct 30, 2006
4,156
7,583
Corn Fields of Indiana
Probably 500 since it'll be used for heat. Word is they'll provide an aboveground tank for free, you pay if you want it buried.
That is the word with my propane supplier here. I have a 1000 gallon that as long as I buy gas from them they leave here. This is Ag use and I burn about 4-5000 gallons in a month so could be different for a home.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
I looked it up and the tax credit for air source heat pumps expired with the new year. It was only $300 anyway.

there’s still a tax credit if you go for the big boy ground source system!


/me is being driven to Empire, where I’ll take over from the wife. Ski day with just her for three Wednesdays in a row
Part the issue is having 80s sized ducts. I can't go heat pump only cause the ducts don't flow enough CFM. So I need a heat pump + propane furnace. Best of both worlds and the cost of it too!

That is the word with my propane supplier here. I have a 1000 gallon that as long as I buy gas from them they leave here. This is Ag use and I burn about 4-5000 gallons in a month so could be different for a home.
I'd prefer to bury it so I don't have a mini-zeppelin hanging out in my side yard.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,959
7,804
Colorado
Part the issue is having 80s sized ducts. I can't go heat pump only cause the ducts don't flow enough CFM. So I need a heat pump + propane furnace. Best of both worlds and the cost of it too!



I'd prefer to bury it so I don't have a mini-zeppelin hanging out in my side yard.
Build a pretty fence around it. Save your costs now, while the budget is tight and deal with the cosmetic vs. functionality later.
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
24,189
14,828
directly above the center of the earth
Probably 500 since it'll be used for heat. Word is they'll provide an aboveground tank for free, you pay if you want it buried.

Check the permit requirements. I know that in CA it's a major hassle to get the ok for a 500. That said I had a 250 for the house in the mountains. I would go through 3 to 4 refills a year. That was heat, cooking and hot water for a 2200 square foot house. I did have R45 attic insulation and double pane window's through out. Depending on where you are and how often the power goes out look into a propane generator plumbed to the propane tank with an ATS at the house
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,959
7,804
Colorado
@Adventurous
@eric strt6 has a really good point around insulation. If you're going to be replacing electrical or doing work that has you exposing behind plaster/drywall on the outer walls, insulate the living hell out of that place. Xcel gave us a pretty substantial discount to get it sealed up and have insulation up to 60 in the attic put in. We could have gotten the outer walls done too, but that was rich and would have required drywall and painting work afterwards. Our winter gas costs have gone down by ~15% and that's after the gas px increases.

That is a "do while accessible" project. Cosmetic projects would come second to that.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
@Adventurous
@eric strt6 has a really good point around insulation. If you're going to be replacing electrical or doing work that has you exposing behind plaster/drywall on the outer walls, insulate the living hell out of that place. Xcel gave us a pretty substantial discount to get it sealed up and have insulation up to 60 in the attic put in. We could have gotten the outer walls done too, but that was rich and would have required drywall and painting work afterwards. Our winter gas costs have gone down by ~15% and that's after the gas px increases.

That is a "do while accessible" project. Cosmetic projects would come second to that.
60 inches or R-60? 60 inches of insulation would be something like R-150!

Also, unless you can strip all interior walls and outside ceilings to make sure you have an air tight envelope, you are better insulating outside. Easier to get an air tight barrier and thicker insulation. Of course that implies brand new siding all around, and not cost effective if you have bricks or stones.

edit: yeah, you've probably meant R60 after re-reading.
 
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Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
So emailed Atlas Snowshoes cause I tore my 18 years old snowshoes to bits. They are sending me new boot harnesses and straps free of charge.

:fancy:
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,073
4,779
Copenhagen, Denmark
Two bird houses arrive today. Hopefully that will like them. Ideally I could have built them myself but I got so many jobs I need to do right now and some of the small bird had problems with predators so hopefully this will be better.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
Check the permit requirements. I know that in CA it's a major hassle to get the ok for a 500. That said I had a 250 for the house in the mountains. I would go through 3 to 4 refills a year. That was heat, cooking and hot water for a 2200 square foot house. I did have R45 attic insulation and double pane window's through out. Depending on where you are and how often the power goes out look into a propane generator plumbed to the propane tank with an ATS at the house
Got the propane guy coming out for a quote next week, assuming they'll know all the permit requirements and such. But part of why I was leaning towards a 500 gallon was the ability to add a propane generator. Not sure how frequently the power goes out, but we are off a main road, so presumably priority wouldn't lie with us first.

@Adventurous
@eric strt6 has a really good point around insulation. If you're going to be replacing electrical or doing work that has you exposing behind plaster/drywall on the outer walls, insulate the living hell out of that place. Xcel gave us a pretty substantial discount to get it sealed up and have insulation up to 60 in the attic put in. We could have gotten the outer walls done too, but that was rich and would have required drywall and painting work afterwards. Our winter gas costs have gone down by ~15% and that's after the gas px increases.

That is a "do while accessible" project. Cosmetic projects would come second to that.
Sadly, we are serviced by a small, municipal electricity provider, so no real incentives to do anything. The larger utilities in the state have very generous offer for insulation, hvac systems and the like, but not us. :thumbsdown:

I still plan to insulate and do whatever I can to cut down on energy waste, it just takes a lot longer when I'll be footing the whole bill.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
#StopBurningStuff?

Can’t you get ‘normal’ heat pumps in the US? This sort of thing?:


No need for any propane…
Winter time temps get too cold where I live to rely solely on a heat pump, hence the need for a propane furnace to pick up the slack as the heat pump loses efficiency. So the HVAC folks say.

There are air source heat pumps with an electric heating element backup, but I'd need additional electrical service to make that work, and the ducting in my home wouldnt support that. I'm sure there could be a heat pump only solution, but its too costly to even consider.
 
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Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
How long is it below that sort of temp? Sheesh and Brrr!
We'll usually have maybe 3-5, 3+ day long stretches throughout the winter where low temps are around or below 0.

My initial desire was to do a heat pump alone, but it doesn't sound like that's realistic.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,532
2,616
Pōneke
We'll usually have maybe 3-5, 3+ day long stretches throughout the winter where low temps are around or below 0.

My initial desire was to do a heat pump alone, but it doesn't sound like that's realistic.
I presume you mean 0°F? Indeed the limit for an air sourced heatpump. But ground sourced can basically work anywhere. I understand they are fairly popular in the wilds of Canada.
 
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Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,997
7,611
SADL
I presume you mean 0°F? Indeed the limit for an air sourced heatpump. But ground sourced can basically work anywhere. I understand they are fairly popular in the wilds of Canada.
You seem them more often these days. But it's still really expensive when compared to our electricity cost.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,760
9,735
Crawlorado
Did you consider wood or pellets stove for those colder days?
Yes, I did. We actually have a wood burning fireplace at the moment. I was going to replace that with an insert for ease of use (wife's request, not mine, doubt she'd use a wood or pellet stove), but I'd still be faced with burning something.

I really wish government incentives prioritized more climate friendly solutions. I'm willing to pay extra to make that happen, but there are limits to how much of an out of pocket expense I can foot.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,672
3,124
Also in really cold places isn’t a ground/bore heatpump the best practice?
I have a ground-source heat pump. Works really well! Only drawback is that, in the garden in the area where the pipes are burried, deep-rooting trees cannot be planted. Total electricity consumption is even with the heat pump fairly low. But I also keep my place fairly cold, 20 °C/68 °F.
Have wood stoves for backup and "hygge" too. :-)