[JRB]

What the hell is this mtbr guy trying to say about latex in tires??? I am just confused. This is why I only go to mtbr when following a link. Anyone seen issues with latex? I have not, other than blowing up a friggin' rim and blasting the crap all over the garage. 50 lbs and the rim blew out. :mumble: Beat the hell out of my hand too, but this is about latex and tires, not me being a knucklehead.

 

[Transcend]

The amonia in stan's has been known to bubble and burn its way through the compound used in Kenda's tires.

 

[ioscope]

Obligatory keanureevesque: WHOA!

That's no good! Can't you use model latex instead of stans? and what about slime?

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> not me being a knucklehead.

Every post I can remember from you is about you being a knucklehead.

Am I missing something?

 

[JRB]

The amonia in stan's has been known to bubble and burn its way through the compound used in Kenda's tires.

Hmmm - maybe I should mix latex with water and not washer fluid. I do run Kendas.

 

[JRB]

Every post I can remember from you is about you being a knucklehead.

Am I missing something?

Shut up, Hippie. :eviltongu

 

[Percy]

Use latex carpet glue.

Works mint in my ghetto tubless.

 

[Andyman_1970]

The amonia in stan's has been known to bubble and burn its way through the compound used in Kenda's tires.

Conti's have had issues with Stan's as well.

I've run Conti's (verticals) and Schwalbe's (Racing Ralphs) with Stan's and have had zero problems - the Ralph's were a bit of a pain to install, but the gain in performance is worth it........IMO.

 

[riderx]

I just love the people who cry because the product fails when they use in a way it was not intended. Next thing you know, he'll want to sue. Dumb ass.

I don't care if you put battery acid in a tire it shouldn't delaminate like that. Kenda refuses to replace the tire because of the sealant.

Of course they refuse, the tire was supposed to be filled with AIR!

 

[Wumpus]

From the Kenda website:

ATTENTION KENDA VALUED CUSTOMER
KENDA WILL NOT AND DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF ANY FLUID BASED SEALANT PRODUCTS IN KENDA TUBE TYPE OR TUBELESS TYPE TIRES. USE OF ANY FLUID BASED PRODUCT IN KENDA TIRES WILL BE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND WILL VOID ANY WARRANTY CLAIMS.

THANK YOU!
Kenda Management

 

[Reactor]

From the Kenda website:

ATTENTION KENDA VALUED CUSTOMER
KENDA WILL NOT AND DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF ANY FLUID BASED SEALANT PRODUCTS IN KENDA TUBE TYPE OR TUBELESS TYPE TIRES. USE OF ANY FLUID BASED PRODUCT IN KENDA TIRES WILL BE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND WILL VOID ANY WARRANTY CLAIMS.

THANK YOU!
Kenda Management

Well, that's not a lot of help to people who ride in area's full of thorns, cactus and pointy sharp rocks!

 

[Andy_B]

Well, that's not a lot of help to people who ride in area's full of thorns, cactus and pointy sharp rocks!

Yes it is... just ride maxxis and you wont have a problem.

 

[Mike B.]

The short story is as follows. We have heard of problems and I see the same pictures you do on MTBR, etc. People are pointing to ammonia in the sealant as being the cause of the problems but I can tell you that the sealant is less than one quarter of one percent ammonia at the time of mixing. Once mixed, bottled, and poured in to a tire, the concentration is far less because the ammonia very quickly evaporates. We have never been able to re-create what you see in the pictures in the linked thread nor have we been able to re-create the blisters that people have reported. I have received three calls from people telling me that they have found blisters in their tires and I have offered to paying the shipping so I could see them for myself and I haven't received one yet. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen one of these damaged tires in person. We have done testing and Kenda has done testing and the situation is so rare that it has not been repeated in a controlled environment. I will be conducting more tests in the future and we'll see what happens.

As someone posted above, Kenda has made a statement that they will not warranty a tire that has been used with sealant which they have a right to do. We make a similar disclaimer on our website that the tires are being used beyond their original design intent and to not expect a warranty in the case of a failure. Interestingly enough though, if you read through Kenda's website, you will find that they recommend tubeless tires be repaired with sealant among other things. According to Kenda, the only tires they are having trouble with is their UST line and they are not outright failures. Kenda and NoTubes both sponsor a certain high ranking pro that found a bubble on the sidewall of a tire, he popped it with a razor blade and continued to race the tire in a World Cup race without a problem.

Similar failures to the Racing Ralph pictured used to happen in the days of plugging car tires when air would get between the layers of rubber at the site of the puncture, blister, and fail. This may be what we are seeing in these tires but I can't say conclusively at this time. FYI, most places will no longer plug a puncture in a car tire. Some people also point to tires that sit for a long time with sealant in them that the failure occurs where the puddle of sealant would have formed. I don't buy this theory because we have had some tires mounted with sealant in them continuously for over 3 years and no failure.

Many companies have now come out with sealant for their tires and more will do so shortly. I guess we will see if any tires using these new sealants have a problem. In the mean time, we will continue testing and development. For what it's worth, we currently supply sealant to racers from Seven/Kenda, Cannondale/Siemens, GF-Subaru, Trek-VW, Giant, Team Maxxis, Rocky Mountain, Luna, Bianchi-Agos, Specialized, WTB/Fox, U23 National Team, and the British National Team and we listen intently to their feedback. The fact of the matter is that even with the tremendous miles these teams log each year, granted they change tires more often, we are not hearing of the failures and the riders continue to choose our sealant over the sealants made by the tire sponsor. Could it be that the average rider just rides tires longer now since they have puncture protection and the casing eventually fails?

So in the end, maybe I don't have a good answer but I can tell that there isn't a day that goes by that we are working with new formulations for better sealing, new applications, greater longevity, and an overall better and more user friendly product.

 

[Reactor]

I use Stans, and will continue to use it, because it works, and in middle Arizona you can't ride most places without some sort of flat protection. My only worry is I just put a blue groove UST on the front. I guess I'll see what happens.

 

[JRB]

I have been mixing my own, but the local shop just got Stan's. I have not had trouble with Kinetics USTs, but I haven't been able to ride for weeks either.

 

[Transcend]

Holy crap - MIkeB laying the smackdown.

I can say that i have been runnind Stan's in some michelins for about 50 days now without a single problem, no surprise there. Also - it kicked ass and i could install them with a hand pump.

Verdicts - Stan's rules. Besides...Kenda tires cost $35 retail...just replace it and be done with it.

 

[Changleen]

The short story is as follows. We have heard of problems and I see the same pictures you do on MTBR, etc. People are pointing to ammonia in the sealant as being the cause of the problems but I can tell you that the sealant is less than one quarter of one percent ammonia at the time of mixing. Once mixed, bottled, and poured in to a tire, the concentration is far less because the ammonia very quickly evaporates. We have never been able to re-create what you see in the pictures in the linked thread nor have we been able to re-create the blisters that people have reported. I have received three calls from people telling me that they have found blisters in their tires and I have offered to paying the shipping so I could see them for myself and I haven't received one yet. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen one of these damaged tires in person. We have done testing and Kenda has done testing and the situation is so rare that it has not been repeated in a controlled environment. I will be conducting more tests in the future and we'll see what happens.

As someone posted above, Kenda has made a statement that they will not warranty a tire that has been used with sealant which they have a right to do. We make a similar disclaimer on our website that the tires are being used beyond their original design intent and to not expect a warranty in the case of a failure. Interestingly enough though, if you read through Kenda's website, you will find that they recommend tubeless tires be repaired with sealant among other things. According to Kenda, the only tires they are having trouble with is their UST line and they are not outright failures. Kenda and NoTubes both sponsor a certain high ranking pro that found a bubble on the sidewall of a tire, he popped it with a razor blade and continued to race the tire in a World Cup race without a problem.

Similar failures to the Racing Ralph pictured used to happen in the days of plugging car tires when air would get between the layers of rubber at the site of the puncture, blister, and fail. This may be what we are seeing in these tires but I can't say conclusively at this time. FYI, most places will no longer plug a puncture in a car tire. Some people also point to tires that sit for a long time with sealant in them that the failure occurs where the puddle of sealant would have formed. I don't buy this theory because we have had some tires mounted with sealant in them continuously for over 3 years and no failure.

Many companies have now come out with sealant for their tires and more will do so shortly. I guess we will see if any tires using these new sealants have a problem. In the mean time, we will continue testing and development. For what it's worth, we currently supply sealant to racers from Seven/Kenda, Cannondale/Siemens, GF-Subaru, Trek-VW, Giant, Team Maxxis, Rocky Mountain, Luna, Bianchi-Agos, Specialized, WTB/Fox, U23 National Team, and the British National Team and we listen intently to their feedback. The fact of the matter is that even with the tremendous miles these teams log each year, granted they change tires more often, we are not hearing of the failures and the riders continue to choose our sealant over the sealants made by the tire sponsor. Could it be that the average rider just rides tires longer now since they have puncture protection and the casing eventually fails?

So in the end, maybe I don't have a good answer but I can tell that there isn't a day that goes by that we are working with new formulations for better sealing, new applications, greater longevity, and an overall better and more user friendly product.

Mike, I'd love to run your stuff, but your product is SOOO expensive over here in NZ. What's up with that?

 

[Mike B.]

Mike, I'd love to run your stuff, but your product is SOOO expensive over here in NZ. What's up with that?

I can't speak to price of the product in NZ, I only have control over what we ship direct. Has your shop be going through Cycletech or ordering direct from us? The shipping is unbelievably high to NZ which may be driving the prices you see.

International dealers can be found here if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.notubes.com/info_dealer.php?osCsid=dc534099de9845d6a3e7939e06266869

 

[Mike B.]

We heard from a high ranking person at Kenda today that attended Pedro's Fest this past weekend. He was approached with, I believe, 3 different Kenda UST tires that had blisters and only one had our sealant inside. One tire was sealed with Slime and the other was an unknown concoction. The blisters continued to hold air even after the tire was deflated. He cut open the blisters and did not find any sealant inside, just air. The air had penetrated the casing through some minute hole and created the blister which was then sealed off by the sealant in the tire.

Anyone able to draw any conclusions?

 

[Changleen]

I can't speak to price of the product in NZ, I only have control over what we ship direct. Has your shop be going through Cycletech or ordering direct from us? The shipping is unbelievably high to NZ which may be driving the prices you see.

International dealers can be found here if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.notubes.com/info_dealer.php?osCsid=dc534099de9845d6a3e7939e06266869

OK, thanks Mike, I'll ask, and check out those guys.

It's strange, most of the stuff here is from abroad obviously, but the markup on yours seems a lot higher than everything else.

 

[DHS]

sweet always knew Kenda tires sucked...

So MikeB anychance i could get some of those new FR rims to TEST for you?
go to diablo or plattekill every weekend or so. and run Stans in everything i own. even still have the road strips in my mavic wheels with Mich Pro Race tires. works great 130psi tested. been a little more then a year too.

but they need to handle stair gaps...