[seismic]

Anyone can explain me the difference between Minion and the High Roller Maxxis tires ? I need a tire for the a semi-loose condition where the top layer of the soil often is slippery due to wet conditions (The top layer of loose soil turns into this soap-like, slippery surface). So I need a tire that will bite through this loose and slippery soil and I thought a pair of Maxxis might do the job, - but are we talking High Roller or Minion ??

The soil is hardpacked under this thin top layer which are a slippery thin layer of mud when a little wet or dusty when sry ! I know the perfect tire for this kind of condition might not exist, but what would be the best alternative ?

I am riding 2.8 Michelin for the moment, but they have a tendency of slipping on the top layer of soil ! Any thoughts ???

 

[Kntr]

Minion 2.5 SRY or ST maybe even 2.3s...

 

[BikeFan84]

Kenda Nevgal 2.7" front and rear. They work great in the same conditions. They are great stuff, also Maxxis Swampthings are good. they are only available in a 2.5" though

 

[joelsman]

tall skinny wider spaced knobs work best in mudd because the mudd gets squished out of the knobs way so the knob can get to the traction underneath, swampthings are mudd tires.

high rollers are better in mud than minions

 

[seismic]

comon !! Someone must have some time on these tires !
Anyone ???

 

[Kntr]

Ive ridden the Minions at the North Shore and Whistler in the mud and rain and they both work great. You will need a 2.5 or smaller. The 2.7 slides on top of the mud. The skinner the better to get to the dry layer underneath.

 

[jus]

I would try to get your hands on a pair of Maxxis Wet Screams 2.35 Super Tacky, they'll rip through that top layer of wet and not get clogged up to be able to bite into the dirt.... and the super tacky is for the traction on rocks if they're wet.... If you can't get a set of these I'd say go with the High Rollers, i've had alot of time with both the High Roller and the Minion in wet condidtions and the high roller will allow for better bite in the corners... Hope this helps

Justin

 

[CBJ]

No High Rollers will not do the job they are better for surfing the mud.

 

[66]

For me, I like the 2.5 Minion ST at a slighty higher presure like 30-32 for the mud. The High Roller is a great tire, but it is a little slicker IMHO.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

I've run the 2.5 Minion front and rear in the snowshoe mud, and they gripped incredibly well. As long as you keep speed, they shed well, too. The 40a SRY compound wears slower than the 42a ST, despite the lower durometer. If you go ST, be prepared to replace tires quite quickly.

 

[Kntr]

I really cant tell the difference in SRY vs ST. The SRY lasts and the ST knobs rip off. I have a newer Minion R 2.5 ST with all the knobs and 95% that I will sell ya for shipping so you can try it out. Ive just gone back to 60D for local riding and SRY for Whistler and NS.

 

[seismic]

So, why will High Rollers be a better choice than the Swamp Thing or Wet Scream when it comes to mud ?

 

[shagwell]

sorry but minions are DRY tyres and do not perform aswell in the mud as other maxxis tyres. as a uk rider who spends most of his time riding in the **** beleive me when i say i know what i`m talking about. at the very least you wanna run high rollers, if it gets any wetter try the swamp things out, they still work nice over roots and rocks so are good for pretty tech courses in the woods (basically what we have to ride all the time here) only if its real bad use the wet screams although you might struggle a little more hitting root sections even running the super tackies or slow reezay, if theres a lot of wet grass try a hard compound spike on the rear.

yea you can still run dry tyres like the minions in the wet and ride flat out, i normally just run real worn out dry tyres all year no matter what the conditions and only stick the good tyres on for racing. riding in the wet is to do more with technique than anything so dont worry too much about what tyres your running, but if you wanna know whats best and when, see above.

 

[Tully]

I run Minion front and High Roller rear; that's my all-time favorite set-up, and it works really well for every condition except pure mud. The Minion has better traction than the High Roller, although the High Roller has slightly less rolling resistance (not a big difference, IMO). For better performance in wet stuff, I would switch to a Minion rear, too. Some people run a Minion front in the rear, which would presumabely giuve you even more traction, along with more rolling resistance. You might also check out the Maxxis Swamp Thing, although that would probably be overkill, given that the second layer of soil is hardpacked. Mud/super-loose-conditions tire tend to get really squirmy in anything other than mud/super-loose-conditions.

 

[seismic]

sorry but minions are DRY tyres and do not perform aswell in the mud as other maxxis tyres. as a uk rider who spends most of his time riding in the **** beleive me when i say i know what i`m talking about. at the very least you wanna run high rollers, if it gets any wetter try the swamp things out, they still work nice over roots and rocks so are good for pretty tech courses in the woods (basically what we have to ride all the time here) only if its real bad use the wet screams although you might struggle a little more hitting root sections even running the super tackies or slow reezay, if theres a lot of wet grass try a hard compound spike on the rear.

yea you can still run dry tyres like the minions in the wet and ride flat out, i normally just run real worn out dry tyres all year no matter what the conditions and only stick the good tyres on for racing. riding in the wet is to do more with technique than anything so dont worry too much about what tyres your running, but if you wanna know whats best and when, see above.

So comparing the Swamp Thing and the High Rollers, - what are the main differences ??

 

[Tully]

High Roller--all-around, works pretty well in most conditions, but bot ideal for mud.

Swamp Thing--only for mud or extremely loose conditions, might get squirmy on the hardpack under the mud.

 

[seismic]

Hmmmm, - a difficult choice !

 

[zedro]

Hmmmm, - a difficult choice !

for difficult terrain. I find even dry powdery coating with hardpack underneath is a pretty infuryating terrain type to deal with. Guess its like ice and car tires, sure there are specific treads out there but you'll never get that perfect hookup.

 

[seismic]

for difficult terrain. I find even dry powdery coating with hardpack underneath is a pretty infuryating terrain type to deal with. Guess its like ice and car tires, sure there are specific treads out there but you'll never get that perfect hookup.

Yeah....it is a kind of compromise

 

[BikeFan84]

ooooooooooooooooh One other option, Syncros BHT-1 2.7 front, 2.5 rear terrific tire, great in most condtions, but then again I like the Nevegals too

 

[shagwell]

High Roller--all-around, works pretty well in most conditions, but bot ideal for mud.

Swamp Thing--only for mud or extremely loose conditions, might get squirmy on the hardpack under the mud.

swamp things work real well on hardpack for a mud specific tyre.

seismic.. just go for high rollers and learn how to ride in the mud instead of worrying too much about tyre choice.

for instance if youve got a long, muddy rooty off camber section to hit and you`re dragging the brakes and not hitting it flat out you WILL lose traction and get out of shape even if your running the best mud tyres in the world with the stickiest rubber in the world, but if you learn to ride the same section brakeless, learn where to put your weight and when and think about your line choice you`ll be much more in control even if your running shady old worn out tyres. only then can you really appreciate the difference a good tyre will make in the mud. if you re constantly braking and sliding your tyres WILL get clogged no matter what they are and the only way to stop this is to let go of the brakes and let the tyres clear.

hope thats been of assistance seismic..

 

[profro]

Fellas check out what the pro's are running. They all run Minion DHFs front and rear exclusively. I do know that they sometimes run Highrollers in the rear on drier courses. But even at Snowshoe Kircaldie ran DHFs through practice. I didn't see what he ran during the race however.

The Minion DHF front and rear in 2.5 is the best tire combo going for any conditions dry or wet. The only exception is mud course fronm top to bottom, then I'll run Swampthings, but it has to be mud all the way down.

The SRY tends to hold on to mud a little worse than the ST. For mud I'll run STs (front and rear) and for dry, rocky courses I run a SRY in the front. But be aware the STs get hard as a rock in cold weather and aren't worth poo. For winter run SRYs or 60ds.

 

[biker3]

DHF front and rear can't be beat. I was on them the whole time at snowmass in the dust and most of the time here in AR where it got wed and wild. Ive never been on swampthings but as said before if you can learn to ride in the mud you might as well run the faster tires....

 

[MikeD]

Comp 16?

 

[Rockland]

Dust? What's that? Comp 16's are great in slippery cond. But... If it is hardpack underneath I'm a little less confident in them. Especialy in the 2.5 size. The knobs are tall and fold over on hardpack. Maybe the 2.2 comp 16 is better?

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

I used maxxis minions 2.5 yesterday on slippy clay mud. Using a dry tyre in those conditions was the worse biking experience of my life, touching the front brake meant the front tyre would immediately slide sideways, even at straight line speed the front tyre would veer off to the left or right. The tyres are like ballons on ice.

There is very good reason mud tyres were developed. I am going for 2.1 michelin mud 3's on my next uplift.

 

[profro]

I used maxxis minions 2.5 yesterday on slippy clay mud. Using a dry tyre in those conditions was the worse biking experience of my life, touching the front brake meant the front tyre would immediately slide sideways, even at straight line speed the front tyre would veer off to the left or right. The tyres are like ballons on ice.

There is very good reason mud tyres were developed. I am going for 2.1 michelin mud 3's on my next uplift.

Yeah, you are right. I hope Kircaldie, Bailey, and Hill get wind of this report.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

Yeah, you are right. I hope Kircaldie, Bailey, and Hill get wind of this report.

what am i thinking, of course a 2.5 dry tyre will outperform a 2.1 mud tyre in wet clay.

I can only report my personal experience, I am sure pro- racers can form their own opinions.

 

[seismic]

There seems to be a very different perception whether the Minion function in the wet/mud or not....do they get very slippery ??

 

[Supa8]

Very impressed with the Hutchinson Octopus in 2.3" I have been using. Was great in very nasty clay and loose mud off camber situations.

The tire is best at low pressures and I thought it worked better on the same track same conditions as the Comp 16 2.2" I was running ( rear tire )

A Comp 16 2.5" as a front tire is a great wet conditions Frt tire.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

There seems to be a very different perception whether the Minion function in the wet/mud or not....do they get very slippery ??

I am from the UK by the way where mud is mud and you can never hope to walk on the flat never mind any gradient.

Ask a pro and you will get one answer, ask a weekend racer and u will get another.

I have only ever used a 2.5 comp 16 front and 2.2 comp 14 rear. These tyres work great in any conditions, even clay. My new bike came with minions and instead of testing out the bike on the tyres I knew and trusted, I foolishly kept the minions on. I will never do it again, I will keep the minions for Morzine in the dry and nothing else.

Much of it was down to the fact I was on a brand new tyre, brand new bike with brand new brakes (Hayes...it is true their modulation sucks compared to Hopes, but I am sure I will get used to these too)... but in my honest opinion if you are not a pro that can race on any equipment, then use a mud tyre in conditons it was designed for... clay/mud.

If it is wet soil then that is a different matter, but in clay when u cant push your bike up a near horizontal piece of ground because the mud is so damn slippy then use a mud tyre. On my next uplift I am taking a pair of studded footbal boots becuase there is a 100 metre incline from the end of the uplift to the start of the track and normal DH shoes dont get me anywhere fast.

 

[profro]

There seems to be a very different perception whether the Minion function in the wet/mud or not....do they get very slippery ??

Everyone has a personal tire that works for them. Look it... Peat runs Highrollers almost exclusively, mud or dry. That works for him, but couldn't work for me... I've tried it. Others run Minion DHF/DHRs. That doesn't work for me... I've tried it. The DHR rolls well and brakes pretty good, but has insufficient corner bite for my style of riding. Others run DHF/Highroller. That works for them, but not for me... I've tried it. The Highroller rolls fast and has good sideknobs, but the channel between the center knobs and side knobs it way too spaced out and I feel uncomfortable leaning the bike on those tires. Then there is the DHF/DHF. Having tried all the above tires nothing works like the DHF in varying conditions (dry or wet) like this combo. Having said that I look around and I see lots of pros running the same combo. Even Chris Herndon, an east coast pro, runs these in mud as does Kircaldie and Bailey. Whatever works for you. Now I am sponsored by Maxxis and I was afforded the time and tires to find what works for me. Last year I orderd multiple tires of each style and kept trading them around until I found what worked for me. So next year I'm ordering all DHFs (mostly 2.5s with a couple 2.7s) and one pair of Swampthings. The Swampthings are for Snowshoe type courses that are mud (deep, soft, slimie) from top to bottom. Race only, cuz if the track is that wet I'm staying home otherwise.

 

[profro]

I foolishly kept the minions on.

I assume you had the DHR on the rear? If so, that is probably one of the worst wet conditions tires Maxxis makes.

 

[seismic]

I assume you had the DHR on the rear? If so, that is probably one of the worst wet conditions tires Maxxis makes.

YEs, - I agree. It is very personal. Now I am just curious. What makes the DHF better in the rear than the DHR ? I mean, - what is it in the pattern that works better ? Considering it was actually made as a front tire (I persume).

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

I assume you had the DHR on the rear? If so, that is probably one of the worst wet conditions tires Maxxis makes.

I had the DHF on the front and DHR on rear, but it was the front that was a nightmare almost like someone pushing my front wheel left and then right on a straight fast no braking section.

Of course you are right that it is personal preference, but I bow down in humbleness to anyone using the abive combination in slippy clay and staying on the bike more than 20 seconds.

Having said that a mate of mine used a 2.3 gazza on frant with 2.6 gazza on rear in those conditions and kicked my arse, and if u ask most people gazzas do not come recommended in any conditions.

 

[seismic]

WOW, - so DHF+DHF ? Any conditions you think this combination does not work or is it quite good overall ( I am not sponsered so I have to admit that my tire budget is limited too ).

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

Can I end this conversation with comp 16 front 24 rear. its great. you have to have some real obscure conditions not to make these tyres work.

 

[seismic]

Can I end this conversation with comp 16 front 24 rear. its great. you have to have some real obscure conditions not to make these tyres work.

Well, - since you ask...no ! I do not like the Michi so much (riding them for the moment), so I actually decided to try out some Maxxis, - but as it is very obvious in this threat, I have been in doubt which to get and wanted some opinions on the topic ..... so.....maybe DHF+DHF / High Rollers / or the Swamp Thing, - but I think the course will still be too hard for this tire, even in wet conditions. (only the top layer gets slippery) :devil:

 

[zedro]

Can I end this conversation with comp 16 front 24 rear. its great. you have to have some real obscure conditions not to make these tyres work.

no you may not :eviltongu

2.5 Comp16 front and 2.2 Comp24 rear will be my new setup.....i'll let everyone know how it rides next may we i can actually try it......

 

[MikeD]

I ride Comp 24s. All the time. Everywhere...

but in claylike mud, they're just terrible. Maybe if you cut them, racerboy style, they're better (I don't have the time or desire to), but not in peanutbutter-sticky or soft-clay mud. Under these conditions, they're just big, heavy slicks.