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Moderately interesting stuff for suspension guys

Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
The last 3 series sucked really hard in the handling department, as in Are you F-ing Serious? They struggle a lot with the electric steering too, that is better, but supposedly not to the "fixed" level with the new 3 series. The issue was a giant "dead spot" in the middle of the steering. They are also notorious for handicapping the x-drives by not offering any of the aggressive suspension options, apart from their older-technology (non magnetic) adaptive shocks that do not lower the already higher ride height of the x-drive. Hopefully that changes too.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,667
7,022
Was hoping to see a new Racelink, the level of disappointment was immense.

That is a long article, is it better for cutting people off or not?
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
To get this to handle halfway decently, I had to install dinan anti-sway bars, ACS springs, and a dinan adaptive suspension "flash" to re-tune the shocks for more damping. This way it actually handled decently, like it really should have been from the factory. BMW hates the x-drive models though and to fit the x-drive components they are essentially "lifted" compared to the regular models and they can't get stiffer suspension from the factory (M sport suspension). This was a pretty good compromise, but installing was extremely expensive because the sway-bars required dropping the entire subframe. I was happy with the result...but it took too much to get there. BMW has lost too much over the years. It's supposed to be the sedan that handles like a sports car.
018c5523f6db086a72e6321f974e7679144402a45c.jpg
 
imbecile

imbecile

Chimp
Sep 9, 2008
57
30
Bulgaria
@Jm_ You really need to test drive the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. Not that I have, but if there's one common feature every review points out, it's the handling.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
imbecile said:
@Jm_ You really need to test drive the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. Not that I have, but if there's one common feature every review points out, it's the handling.
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I have handling all handled now, traded for a 2SS 1LE. The Giulia was on the radar, but unknown reliability and support. Reviews of the brakes being “non linear” also kind of threw me. Ultimately I think it’s too highly strung of a v6 for long term reliability without a hell of a lot more evidence and time. Too limited to take that chance, there are some stories of weeks and months in shops just because parts are unavailable.
 
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C

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
Jm_ said:
The last 3 series sucked really hard in the handling department, as in Are you F-ing Serious? They struggle a lot with the electric steering too, that is better, but supposedly not to the "fixed" level with the new 3 series. The issue was a giant "dead spot" in the middle of the steering. They are also notorious for handicapping the x-drives by not offering any of the aggressive suspension options, apart from their older-technology (non magnetic) adaptive shocks that do not lower the already higher ride height of the x-drive. Hopefully that changes too.
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My sister in law has the new M 3 series. I agree with you even with their flagship car. I had an E30M and E36M both handled better. I suppercharged the E36 and her car isnt much faster. Its got a lot more weight to move around.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
Cerberus75 said:
My sister in law has the new M 3 series. I agree with you even with their flagship car. I had an E30M and E36M both handled better. I suppercharged the E36 and her car isnt much faster. Its got a lot more weight to move around.
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They still do some things really well, massive flat torque at low RPM and dcts that make them launch and accelerate insane.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,454
5,072
We are talking cars in the dh forum now? What is this, the new Toshi thread?
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,047
783
Jm_ said:
Reviews of the brakes being “non linear” also kind of threw me.
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Should have taken a VW brake pedal, Goodridge braided hoses, a Subaru cailper and bled it with Shimano fluid. I'm pretty sure I read that in this forum somewhere...:brow:
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,779
7,044
borcester rhymes
mmmkay so I thought this thread would be largely ignored, have a few people go "oh yeah, that is interesting" and then maybe a brief commentary from @Udi on how additional caster/mechanical trail in a car translates to like 0.2235* of head angle in a bike and therefore the new 3 series is SLACKER.

anyways, if you want to bitch about cars, come join me in my garbage thread: https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/what-kind-of-car-should-i-buy.279799/
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
My take is that road cars (specifically, affordable race cars for the street) peaked in '98-02 and since then things have just become heavier, more vague, and more expensive. The magnitude of each of those 3 failures is impressively high.

I skimmed the thread though and I think you know what you want and will make a good choice. The only thing I'd correct is that lightweight FWDs are an absolute hoot through mountain roads, and I'd much sooner write off AWDs unless you specifically need that for something (eg. snow). RWD + helical LSD still reigns king but a sorted FWD (with proportional weight benefit, thus nothing from VW) is a close 2nd.

Taking affordable out of the equation, in my book the last truly impressive feat was in 1993, for anyone interested in cars I think reading this wiki page is a real treat. The rearward axle path for better bump handling is a pretty interesting crossover with MTB!

The best street cars for the average winding mountain around the average city will have a kerb weight in kg starting with 10,11, or 12. Anything beyond that in my book is a web of compromise, and at the (actual) limit will take an above-average driver to keep on the rails.
 
Flo33

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,135
1,364
Styria
Udi said:
I skimmed the thread though and I think you know what you want and will make a good choice. The only thing I'd correct is that lightweight FWDs are an absolute hoot through mountain roads, and I'd much sooner write off AWDs unless you specifically need that for something (eg. snow). RWD + helical LSD still reigns king but a sorted FWD (with proportional weight benefit, thus nothing from VW) is a close 2nd.
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Agreed. This is the fastest street legal racecar I came to drive until now.



~800 kg / 1750 lbs, 2.0 4 head inline turbo, 175 kW, dwb push rod suspension on all 4 wheels, no power steering, no ABS, no EPS, no nothing - just very direct handling and stupid fast cornering.


Here's a video of me driving the Clubsport edition of it. Sorry for the shitty quality, the year was 2009 and the filming device a pocket camera...

 
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