[Nick]

calorie restrictions keep you from gaining more weight.
in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise. this isn't rocket surgery.
I don't understand why you're looking for some cutting edge solution, eat right and exercise.

 

[rideit]

Fuck, braces for kiddo. There is 5k I can't spend on bikes.

 

[rideit]

My trip to Sweden was really good. Almost 9 hours on the bike in scenic Sweden. Great company. 185km and ended up with 2900m of climbing and the legs felt good all way. Still sore legs.

Where we stated the had a breakfast together

Ferry to the main land

More off road than gravel at time (here its the only female rider of the day)

CBJ in charge mode

Do a lot of Danes speak Swedish, and vice versa, or do people default to the Queen's English? Always wondered.

 

[Full Trucker]

calorie restrictions keep you from gaining more weight.
in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise. this isn't rocket surgery.
I don't understand why you're looking for some cutting edge solution, eat right and exercise.

 

[Toshi]

I guess I would just ride a bike without a motor and continue to eat food?

calorie restrictions keep you from gaining more weight.
in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise. this isn't rocket surgery.
I don't understand why you're looking for some cutting edge solution, eat right and exercise.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Weight loss at the end of the competition was (mean ± SD) 58.3 ± 24.9 kg (P < 0.0001), and RMR decreased by 610 ± 483 kcal/day (P = 0.0004). After 6 years, 41.0 ± 31.3 kg of the lost weight was regained (P = 0.0002), while RMR was 704 ± 427 kcal/day below baseline (P < 0.0001) and metabolic adaptation was −499 ± 207 kcal/day (P < 0.0001).

As I posted in my thread on August 13. Note resting metabolic rate of 700 calories below baseline despite their weight regain.

"Eat less move more" DOESN'T WORK. It has something like a 99.6% failure rate in large trials.

Either there's something wrong with the advice or you all seriously think me and the vast majority of humans who try this are just devoid of willpower.

 

[jonKranked]

calorie restrictions keep you from gaining more weight.
in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise. this isn't rocket surgery.
I don't understand why you're looking for some cutting edge solution, eat right and exercise.

tl;dr - less kare pan, less drunken noodle, less e-bike

 

[jonKranked]

me and the vast majority of humans who try this are just devoid of willpower.

given your propensity for thai food and kare pan, please forgive us for being under this impression.

 

[Toshi]

given your propensity for thai food and kare pan, please forgive us for being under this impression.

Since you're the self-professed math guru, think about the math.

Weight gain or loss over the course of the year involves many hundreds of thousands of calories of energy expenditure (from various sources depending on hormonal status, e.g. insulin, glucagon, leptin, ghrelin, norepinephrine, cortisol) and energy intake. On any given day we are mismatched. We clearly aren't doing arithmetic inside our bodies to address long term trends--we don't choose to eat 17% less on one day to make the week come out "even"--we have no mechanisms for knowing calorie intake or actual energy burned, let alone the ability to integrate that over time.

So we're a self-regulating system instead, again via these hormones that regulate whether we pull energy from food, from glycogen in our liver, or from the thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of stored calories in body fat.

The problem is that what and when we eat cause this self-regulation to be in a perpetual tilt to pack on a few more pounds in fat each year. If we just eat less then the self-regulation turns down metabolic rate (as per that linked paper) to achieve homeostasis again. The cure therefore is to fix the self-regulation system, and that's where fasting comes in, to provide a prolonged state of low insulin and high norepinephrine and cortisol.

 

[Toshi]

And re Nick's quip: "in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise."

This is true in as much as lean mass effects resting metabolic rate. So muscle building activities ultimately help. But exercise in and of itself won't do jack squat regarding fat burning regardless of one's heart rate zone or whatever if one's liver is always filled with glycogen and one's insulin is always elevated.

As I posted in my thread when I got my body composition test done my problem isn't exercise or lack of lean mass. I have 175 lbs of lean mass (ie what I'd weigh if I somehow had 0% body fat, which is not possible) on a 5' 8" frame. My problem thus far is that my body hasn't been able to tap into its ample stored energy reserves.

 

[Full Trucker]

So what I'm gathering is that you've been eating too much garbage and not moving enough for a long enough time, that you've trained your body to do the all the wrong things. And now you need to kick off a hard reset. Good job.

 

[jonKranked]

My problem thus far is that my body hasn't been able to tap into its ample stored energy reserves.

figure out how to run your e-bike off the uh "stored energy reserves"

 

[jonKranked]

Since you're the self-professed math guru, think about the math.

Weight gain or loss over the course of the year involves many hundreds of thousands of calories of energy expenditure (from various sources depending on hormonal status, e.g. insulin, glucagon, leptin, ghrelin, norepinephrine, cortisol) and energy intake. On any given day we are mismatched. We clearly aren't doing arithmetic inside our bodies to address long term trends--we don't choose to eat 17% less on one day to make the week come out "even"--we have no mechanisms for knowing calorie intake or actual energy burned, let alone the ability to integrate that over time.

So we're a self-regulating system instead, again via these hormones that regulate whether we pull energy from food, from glycogen in our liver, or from the thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of stored calories in body fat.

The problem is that what and when we eat cause this self-regulation to be in a perpetual tilt to pack on a few more pounds in fat each year. If we just eat less then the self-regulation turns down metabolic rate (as per that linked paper) to achieve homeostasis again. The cure therefore is to fix the self-regulation system, and that's where fasting comes in, to provide a prolonged state of low insulin and high norepinephrine and cortisol.

i get what you're saying. personally i've always found the whole calories burned concept to be a bit of black magic, it's an educated estimate at best.

that being said, here's my anecdotal evidence -

exercise is still important. not just for "calories burned" but it helps keep your metabolism up.
what you're eating is just as - if not more important - than how much. gotta watch the sugar intake (incl beer). more fresh fruits and veggies
when you're eating is important too. don't eat a ton before bed. i try and get most of my caloric intake between breakfast and lunch.

 

[Toshi]

figure out how to run your e-bike off the uh "stored energy reserves"

What do you think will be keeping me alive (and pedaling my bikes +/- electric assist) during the fast? Fat, via ketosis.

 

[jonKranked]

What do you think will be keeping me alive (and pedaling my bikes +/- electric assist) during the fast? Fat, via ketosis.

on that topic - what are your thoughts on ketogenic diets?

 

[Toshi]

i get what you're saying. personally i've always found the whole calories burned concept to be a bit of black magic, it's an educated estimate at best.

that being said, here's my anecdotal evidence -

exercise is still important. not just for "calories burned" but it helps keep your metabolism up.
what you're eating is just as - if not more important - than how much. gotta watch the sugar intake (incl beer). more fresh fruits and veggies
when you're eating is important too. don't eat a ton before bed. i try and get most of my caloric intake between breakfast and lunch.

Thank you for a more reasonable/less snarky post for once.

The Biggest Loser study addresses quite well the question of whether one's metabolic rate will stay constant if one exercises a lot while doing normal calorie restriction. The answer to that would be no. They dropped 600 calories in daily RMR while still doing the show's very intensive exercise routine. Over the next 6 years, presumably exercising a bit less because no one can maintain that rate, they dropped an additional 100 calories in daily RMR.

Agreed regarding quality of food. As much as one might want to assume I eat just crap I really don't. Kare pan is something that is indeed delicious, but not something that comprises any substantial part of what I eat in a given week.

Re when you're eating: that's basically intermittent fasting in a nutshell. Most basic version commonly used is 16:8, eating in an 8 hour window. I've been doing 18:6 most days since kicking this off on Aug 10.

 

[Toshi]

on that topic - what are your thoughts on ketogenic diets?

They go hand in hand with the fasting concept. Low insulin, low glucose levels, get into ketosis. That's the way you burn fat, quite literally.

 

[Nick]

"Eat less move more" DOESN'T WORK. It has something like a 99.6% failure rate in large trials.

that isn't what I said. I said "eat right and exercise".
Eating less than your base daily metabolic needs is a fail. Maintain your daily rate, and exercise into a deficit.

It most certainly DOES work. Hard stop. What it isn't is easy nor low effort.

 

[eric strt6]

Holy crap no wonder we are a nation of lazy fatties. I just passed a mile long line of mommies waiting in line in SUV's to drop their kids off at High School.

 

[stoney]

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

As I posted in my thread on August 13. Note resting metabolic rate of 700 calories below baseline despite their weight regain.

"Eat less move more" DOESN'T WORK. It has something like a 99.6% failure rate in large trials.

Either there's something wrong with the advice or you all seriously think me and the vast majority of humans who try this are just devoid of willpower.

I'm eating more but moving less. How the what?

 

[Toshi]

that isn't what I said. I said "eat right and exercise".
Eating less than your base daily metabolic needs is a fail. Maintain your daily rate, and exercise into a deficit.

It most certainly DOES work. Hard stop. What it isn't is easy nor low effort.

That's pretty much the same concept, Nick. Calories in, calories out just with you suggesting that calories in be held constant and calories out ramped up. That's The Biggest Loser, and if you don't address the insulin effect elephant in the room (so as to actually be able to burn fat) then sooner or later one will end up like The Biggest Loser contestants: 2/3rds if not more back to where they started from.

 

[Toshi]

I'm eating more but moving less. How the what?

Exactly. You're just burning nearly exclusively all fat at this point. Which is something totally not addressed in calories in calories out.

 

[jonKranked]

the insulin effect elephant in the room

 

[TN]

Ate dinner last night. Not planning on eating until Saturday, lunch or dinner depending on my whim.

Im interested in this journey. Not cuz I wanna do it but just to see.

 

[Nick]

I'm eating more but moving less. How the what?

I spent a week trying to limit my carbs to 50 or less. It was brutal the way I shop for groceries.

For the rest of you following along, the amount of weight stoney has lost is amazing from this near zero carb diet. It's gotta be 50-60 pounds. AND, his brain is slightly less defective! Win/Win !!

 

[TN]

ugh casa bonita birthday party with 10 11yo girls .
cant wait for this week cuz its gonna be kid free.

 

[dan-o]

I just ate a delicious fish burrito.

 

[jonKranked]

Thank you for a more reasonable/less snarky post for once.

The Biggest Loser study addresses quite well the question of whether one's metabolic rate will stay constant if one exercises a lot while doing normal calorie restriction. The answer to that would be no. They dropped 600 calories in daily RMR while still doing the show's very intensive exercise routine. Over the next 6 years, presumably exercising a bit less because no one can maintain that rate, they dropped an additional 100 calories in daily RMR.

Agreed regarding quality of food. As much as one might want to assume I eat just crap I really don't. Kare pan is something that is indeed delicious, but not something that comprises any substantial part of what I eat in a given week.

Re when you're eating: that's basically intermittent fasting in a nutshell. Most basic version commonly used is 16:8, eating in an 8 hour window. I've been doing 18:6 most days since kicking this off on Aug 10.

this kinda touches on one thing a lot of people don't really get - the whole concept of "dieting" is pretty much garbage. sure, you might drop some weight or reduce your body fat short term. but if you want long term improvements you need to make long term changes. you're gonna be better off long run making small changes (say to diet or exercise) that you can actually stick with. for instance, i cut soda out of my diet a long time ago (although i still have one occasionally, but not often enough for it to have a lasting impact) because of the high sugar (and therefore caloric) content. i also notice my weight starts dropping when i'm drinking less. drinking more it starts to go back up. recently i have a buddy from my college days inform me that he stopped drinking for 3 months and lost 20 lbs from that alone.

 

[Pesqueeb]

casa bonita birthday party

"When I die, I will surely go to heaven, for I have already spent my time in hell."

 

[jonKranked]

I just ate a delicious fish burrito.

step 1 - take a fish
step 2 - wrap in burrito

 

[jonKranked]

on kare pan - we gotta bust your chops about something

 

[SkaredShtles]

he's also being an asshole to his asshole cat.

Fixed.

calorie restrictions keep you from gaining more weight.
in order to burn fat efficiently you must exercise. this isn't rocket surgery.
I don't understand why you're looking for some cutting edge solution, eat right and exercise.

Hey... you're not a doctor.

Fuck, braces for kiddo. There is 5k I can't spend on bikes.

SUCKER! Oh, wait. I'm already knee-deep in braces, round 2.

ugh casa bonita birthday party with 10 11yo girls .

I just ate a delicious fish burrito.

I sure could go for fish tacos now...

 

[roflbox]

ojasoiddjfoijadofijasoidf
mondb0rk

 

[SkaredShtles]

Just got pulled into a DR discussion about a batch application that has been around, growing organically... for about 20 years.

KILL LIST.

 

[roflbox]

Just got pulled into a DR discussion about a batch application that has been around, growing organically... for about 20 years.

KILL LIST.

bohohohohohohohohohohoho

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

But it’s wafer thin, Sir.

Ugh,sniped by @Westy

 

[Full Trucker]

Excelente. Ahora tengo hambre de tacos de pescado y burritos.

 

[stoney]

Haley's first day on skis since May wasn't too bad. Instructor realized real quick that she is using poles and that helped her a lot. She really doesn't like the carpet hill, but it's the only option during summer. She wants to do more days so "I am good when I go skiing for real". She keeps saying that she can't wait for winter because it's her favorite season - because she gets to ski. Wifey has no idea what she's getting into with pushing gymnastics - sure honey, you should totally teach her how to properly flip and tumble, that will never have any unexpected side effects with skiing. I also told her that when she is skiing with Wifey, if she thinks they are going too slow, she should just ski backwards.

I spent a week trying to limit my carbs to 50 or less. It was brutal the way I shop for groceries.

For the rest of you following along, the amount of weight stoney has lost is amazing from this near zero carb diet. It's gotta be 50-60 pounds. AND, his brain is slightly less defective! Win/Win !!

It does make shopping hard for sure. I'd fucking LOVE a mango right now.

And it's posting at ~50# now with consistency. 215# seems to be my steady weight now. I could probably go down more, but that would require me to actually work out and put forth effort.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

It actually is fine for the body.

Holistic toshi is holistic.

 

[TN]

given your propensity for thai food and kare pan, please forgive us for being under this impression.

what I need to really know is where can I find this kare pan? @Toshi

 

[eric strt6]

I will stick with not over eating, staying away from junk food, and exercising. Screw that fasting bs. I'm doing ok for 62 and 5 months post tib fib surgery.

 

[TN]

Haley's first day on skis since May wasn't too bad. Instructor realized real quick that she is using poles and that helped her a lot. She really doesn't like the carpet hill, but it's the only option during summer. She wants to do more days so "I am good when I go skiing for real". She keeps saying that she can't wait for winter because it's her favorite season - because she gets to ski. Wifey has no idea what she's getting into with pushing gymnastics - sure honey, you should totally teach her how to properly flip and tumble, that will never have any unexpected side effects with skiing. I also told her that when she is skiing with Wifey, if she thinks they are going too slow, she should just ski backwards.


It does make shopping hard for sure. I'd fucking LOVE a mango right now.

And it's posting at ~50# now with consistency. 215# seems to be my steady weight now. I could probably go down more, but that would require me to actually work out and put forth effort.

snobahn?
did you strap in to?