[Changleen]

Why does this not suprise me? Should Fox even be allowed to call themselves a 'news' channel?

Fox forgets convention in Democratic coverage


By Victor Balta



I set out this week to provide a fair and balanced look at the coverage of the Democratic National Convention, as brought to us by CNN and Fox News.

Don't worry, though. In keeping with the tenets of the Fox News Channel - the journalism beacon that it is - I'll do the same when the Republican convention rolls around in August.

CNN Monday night was pretty ho-hum. Al Gore spoke, conservative and liberal analysts talked about it. Jimmy Carter spoke, conservative and liberal analysts talked about it.

You know how it goes. It's what you expect when you tune in to watch a political convention during a presidential election year.

We know these events are staged. We know the speeches are rehearsed. We generally know what to expect.

Both parties get a fair shot. They each have their dog-and-pony show, and voters take that and do with it what they like.

So you can imagine my surprise when I popped in a tape of Fox News' "coverage" from Monday night.

It wasn't there.

I mean, they were there at the FleetCenter in Boston. They had cameras there. They had reporters there. They had signs there. They even had the all-important Democratic National Convention logo on the screen.

But the coverage wasn't there.

Fox's primetime bulldog Bill O'Reilly laid out the plan early on. As his show began, Gore was preparing to take the stage.

"We might listen in for a minute or so," O'Reilly said. "But we're trying to stay away from partisan speech in both conventions this year."

Has the actual meaning of the word "partisan" been forgotten somewhere in this TV talking-head rhetoric?

By definition, a national political convention - Republican or Democrat - is partisan.

The claim that Fox News won't show partisan speech at the convention makes about as much sense as ESPN saying it won't show balls and strikes at a baseball game.

Instead, O'Reilly said, his show will "give you coverage of the controversy and the 'inside stuff.'"

Indeed, the meaty "inside stuff" O'Reilly had to offer was prolonged discussion of Teresa Heinz Kerry's "shove it" comment and an interview with Ralph Nader, instead of airing the speech Gore was giving at the same time.

Apparently, that's inside stuff. That's going to help me determine who to vote for in November.

It seems Fox News only reports what it thinks you need to know - even if the live event is happening right behind its commentators' backs.

This means you're at the will of their news editors.

It means that anyone watching only Fox News Monday night never heard the most repeated and scathing line from former President Carter's speech, "In the world at large, we cannot lead if our leaders mislead."

Instead, they heard more about Heinz Kerry's remark, John Kerry's less-than-perfect first pitch at Fenway Park, and saw pictures of Kerry in some plastic suit at Cape Canaveral.

O'Reilly said on his show Tuesday that the purpose of Fox News' coverage is to analyze what's happening at the convention, "not bring you wall-to-wall blather."

So, one would think O'Reilly the analyst would at least know what's going on at the convention.

As he wrapped up an interview with Ben Affleck Tuesday night, O'Reilly told viewers, "We'll let you listen to Ted Kennedy for a little while, if he shows up."

O'Reilly obviously hadn't noticed that Kennedy had already been speaking on the stage behind him for seven minutes.

This is not a partisan argument. It's a journalistic one.

Part of the driving force behind 24-hour news channels was that they could provide the wire-to-wire coverage and analysis of these types of events.

Fox News is now stuck.

If it sticks with this misguided form of coverage for the Republican convention, it'll be doing viewers the same disservice. But if it changes and covers more speeches, it would seem unfair and unbalanced, and nobody wants that.

I'm just as cynical as the next guy when it comes to politics, but I still believe that despite the prewriting and the contrived pomp and circumstance, speeches are still the hallmark of the system. The speech is the only part of the process that connects us directly to the politician.

Fox News has decided that what matters most is what its own pundits have to say.

So, now I've reported. You decide.

 

[Slugman]

What is the source fo this? Got the Link?

 

[Changleen]

Yeah - Sorry:

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/04/07/29/ae_balta001.cfm

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Yeah - Sorry:

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/04/07/29/ae_balta001.cfm

lol, sometimes i think if US "conservatives"* deserve the protection of being UnitedStates-ers.

after all, economically, and in terms of national safety the US would be so much better of if it didnt had the drag of those conservatives states.

and if those conservatives states would be alone they´d probably be worse than mexico and worldwide more hated than ETA, IRA and alqaeda together.

maybe loosing the civil war was for their best interest.

*define conservative as the typical republican states.

 

[quadricolour]

lol, sometimes i think if US "conservatives"* deserve the protection of being UnitedStates-ers.

after all, economically, and in terms of national safety the US would be so much better of if it didnt had the drag of those conservatives states.

and if those conservatives states would be alone they´d probably be worse than mexico and worldwide more hated than ETA, IRA and alqaeda together.

maybe loosing the civil war was for their best interest.

*define conservative as the typical republican states.

I hereby propose the beginning of the Alabama Seperatist Movement! May they have the best of success!

 

[blue]

I swear, Utah wants to seperate too...I think I'll be flying to California now

 

[Changleen]

What a great idea! Why did nobody think of this before?

Anybody got a nice map we can draw out the divisions on?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

What a great idea! Why did nobody think of this before?

Anybody got a nice map we can draw out the divisions on?

yeah, would be "nice" to have a anglo-saxon equivalent of Iraq in the southern plains.

but really, imo the west feels a culturally homogeneous place. a western european is not much different than a democrat US-er, or a south american, or a canadian.
i feel as comfortable in madrid, buenos aires, lima, boston or montreal. they have their own national flavors, but are still part of the same half-world-wide culture.

but then, in the US you go south of the mason dixie line, and bang!, you just crossed the unknown dimension. is like going into the jungles of peru, or deep into tazmania, or the conservative afghanistan. truly, i feel the culture of that half of the US is very different from that in the western block.

to me is so weird and contradictory to watch. that the most powerful country of the world, has this progresist, and this conservative religiously fanatic side.

 

[Bicyclist]

Has anyone seen Outfoxed? It's a great movie all about how Fox is full of sh!t.

 

[Changleen]

I've heard of it, but I have yet to see it, or unfortunatey a Cinema or Video store that will be stocking/showing it. I guess I'll be doing a bit more P2P before long.

 

[Changleen]

i feel the culture of that half of the US is very different from that in the western block...to me is so weird and contradictory to watch. that the most powerful country of the world, has this progresist, and this conservative religiously fanatic side.

I agree. To me the fact that America is the only western/1st world country that is becoming MORE religious is deeply, deeply disturbing. I really cound not believe it when Kansas banned the teaching of Evolution. Is that still the case?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I agree. To me the fact that America is the only western/1st world country that is becoming MORE religious is deeply, deeply disturbing. I really cound not believe it when Kansas banned the teaching of Evolution. Is that still the case?

lol dude, i go to college in ALABAMA. great choice of mine! duh.

yeah, pretty freaky to exchange ideas with some of those "creationist" guys taking a class in Aerospace Engineering. that seems so contradictory to share a classroom with willing to be "science" people, who on the other hand are do deeply fundamentalist.

oh yeah, and i remember this evolution VS creationism debate (like if there could be a debate between them, lol). the mechanical engineering chairman got whistled by the auditorium when he made a remark about the "creationist scientist" interpretation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. (never mind most of the room was filled by a christian organization whose members were non-science majors anyway)

lol, i could not believe it, a crapload of people in a thermodynamics and biology debate taking side with a "creationist scientist" against a mechanical engineering professor, who happened to have an engineering PhD. and an MD. as well an extremely sound logical reasoning.

those things really disturbed me. oh, yeah and that thing of buying weapons in the same place where families get their groceries. WalMart, the south is a place of the weirdest contradictions i´ve seen. AND GODAMMIT, i grew up in a 3rd world country!!!!

oh, btw, mississippi dropped fractions and decimals from its high school curriculum not so long ago. take that up the nuts science!

 

[N8 v2.0]

lol dude, i go to college in ALABAMA. great choice of mine! duh.

yeah, pretty freaky to exchange ideas with some of those "creationist" guys taking a class in Aerospace Engineering. that seems so contradictory to share a classroom with willing to be "science" people, who on the other hand are do deeply fundamentalist.

oh yeah, and i remember this evolution VS creationism debate (like if there could be a debate between them, lol). the mechanical engineering chairman got whistled by the auditorium when he made a remark about the "creationist scientist" interpretation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. (never mind most of the room was filled by a christian organization whose members were non-science majors anyway)

lol, i could not believe it, a crapload of people in a thermodynamics and biology debate taking side with a "creationist scientist" against a mechanical engineering professor, who happened to have an engineering PhD. and an MD. as well an extremely sound logical reasoning.

those things really disturbed me. oh, yeah and that thing of buying weapons in the same place where families get their groceries. WalMart, the south is a place of the weirdest contradictions i´ve seen. AND GODAMMIT, i grew up in a 3rd world country!!!!

oh, btw, mississippi dropped fractions and decimals from its high school curriculum not so long ago. take that up the nuts science!

Humm.. Alabama probably has a greater domestic output than the entire country of Peru.

You are a typical 'wrinkle-belly'....

You come to the US from a dicked up THIRD world country to better yourself, we welcome you with our education system and way of life, then as soon as you get the wrinkle out of your little belly, you start bitching about how the US sucks.

If you hate Alabama so damn much carry your butt back to Peru and raise lamas and cocaine or whatever it is that Peruvians do.

 

[syadasti]

If you hate Alabama so damn much carry your butt back to Peru and raise lamas and cocaine or whatever it is that Peruvians do.

I think most Americans would rather deport people like N8 to third world countries

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Humm.. Alabama probably has a greater domestic output than the entire country of Peru.

You are a typical 'wrinkle-belly'....

You come to the US from a dicked up THIRD world country to better yourself, we welcome you with our education system and way of life, then as soon as you get the wrinkle out of your little belly, you start bitching about how the US sucks.

If you hate Alabama so damn much carry your butt back to Peru and raise lamas and cocaine or whatever it is that Peruvians do.

uh, thank you, thank you. wont expect anything less from you.

about the GNP, they are around the same. 2nd, I AM a costumer of your country, so i can bitch anything i want because I buy a product, and i see flaws on it.

flaws that are actually all the people like you who make the US exactly the opposite of the land of freedom and etc. so yeah, ill bitch anything i want,

because am dumping in there directly and indirectly much more money than the US per capita income, so am as a contributing force in better shape than most US-ers. so cry, roll over, moan or whatever.

and yeah, whenever i receive my finished commodity, i´ll go back to raise llamas and produce coke.

meanwhile Ill stay just to piss you off. :eviltongu

 

[N8 v2.0]

uh, thank you, thank you. wont expect anything less from you.

about the GNP, they are around the same. 2nd, I AM a costumer of your country, so i can bitch anything i want because I buy a product, and i see flaws on it.

flaws that are actually all the people like you who make the US exactly the opposite of the land of freedom and etc. so yeah, ill bitch anything i want,

because am dumping in there directly and indirectly much more money than the US per capita income, so am as a contributing force in better shape than most US-ers. so cry, roll over, moan or whatever.

and yeah, whenever i receive my finished commodity, i´ll go back to raise llamas and produce coke.

meanwhile Ill stay just to piss you off. :eviltongu

You don't piss me off... never. But you should be thanking the residents of Alabama who are footing the bill for your education.

Quite the oppsite in fact. I find your 'wanna-be' commentary funny.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I agree. To me the fact that America is the only western/1st world country that is becoming MORE religious is deeply, deeply disturbing. I really cound not believe it when Kansas banned the teaching of Evolution. Is that still the case?

We are becoming more religous.......or let me be specific becoming more Christian (which is what people seem to have the most "problem" with)?

We must be watching two different realities, from what I have seen I don't see this country moving at all towards being more "Christian". You cite Kansas teaching/not teaching evolution, I would cite as a counter the whole gay marriage issue, the gay Bishop in New Hampshire.

I'm sure we could go back and fourth ad infinitum on issues we think are pulling this country one way or another, but I would argue that the US has not in the last 3+ years (the assumption that becuase Duba is a Christian he is making wholesale changes and now we are on this fastrack to being a Christian version of the Taliban in Afganistan) this country has not made any wholesale huge jumps towards being fundamentalist Christian.

It's funny the fastest growing Chrisitan nation is the world today is South Korea, almost 95% of the population is Christian, their president is also a professing Christian..........but somehow no one seems to have a problem with that........LOL (I know, they are not a world leader/superpower/role model for the rest of the world).

If more Christians realized that Christianity is a way of life and not merely some "stuff" they agree with, I think you folks that currently have a problem with Christianity wouldn't.

 

[N8 v2.0]

We are becoming more religous.......or let me be specific becoming more Christian (which is what people seem to have the most "problem" with)?

We must be watching two different realities, from what I have seen I don't see this country moving at all towards being more "Christian". You cite Kansas teaching/not teaching evolution, I would cite as a counter the whole gay marriage issue, the gay Bishop in New Hampshire.

I'm sure we could go back and fourth ad infinitum on issues we think are pulling this country one way or another, but I would argue that the US has not in the last 3+ years (the assumption that becuase Duba is a Christian he is making wholesale changes and now we are on this fastrack to being a Christian version of the Taliban in Afganistan) this country has not made any wholesale huge jumps towards being fundamentalist Christian.

It's funny the fastest growing Chrisitan nation is the world today is South Korea, almost 95% of the population is Christian, their president is also a professing Christian..........but somehow no one seems to have a problem with that........LOL (I know, they are not a world leader/superpower/role model for the rest of the world).

If more Christians realized that Christianity is a way of life and not merely some "stuff" they agree with, I think you folks that currently have a problem with Christianity wouldn't.

Don't forget the Ruling Monarch of Great Britian is the head of the Church of England...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

You don't piss me off... never. But you should be thanking the residents of Alabama who are footing the bill for your education.

Quite the oppsite in fact. I find your 'wanna-be' commentary funny.

again, your ignorance comes to the surface.

do you think alabama hasnt thought about that????
they charge enough to make it profitable for them to sell me education.

i fund my entire education bill, my tuition is 3 times higher than for an alabamian, i get no finantial aid, no access to scholarships and i gotta pay everything up front. 14k bucks each semester bill over bill. compared to like 5k for an alabamian. plus whatever i spend in walmart, bestbuy, etc, etc.

i pay the regular tuition, PLUS an out of state, PLUS an intl student fee. so for me, going to Alabama costs as much as to go to UMiami or any private school. (in fact the most expensive school in the US is the public funded university of colorado med school i think, which charges foreign students 80k a year).

so in the end, what i fork up is actually more than the per student expenditure of the schoool. so i actually help some alabamian dude to go to school.

that is directly without counting the part of the taxes my folks pay in Peru that go to fund the US. just think about this. 10% of the alabama per capita comes from foreign students money. otherwise, why would alabama recruit foreign guys if we were a drag to the economy as you think?

so i find your ignorace much funnier.

 

[Changleen]

We are becoming more religous.......or let me be specific becoming more Christian (which is what people seem to have the most "problem" with)?

No, more religious. Figures show that CHristianity is actually down whilst number of people following other religions such as Islam, Judaism, Paganism is up.

We must be watching two different realities, from what I have seen I don't see this country moving at all towards being more "Christian". You cite Kansas teaching/not teaching evolution, I would cite as a counter the whole gay marriage issue, the gay Bishop in New Hampshire.

Gay mariage is only an issue because of the rise of the religious right. Normal people don't have a problem with it. And the Gay Bishop - He's a Bishop. Again an issue based on religious beliefs.

I'm sure we could go back and fourth ad infinitum on issues we think are pulling this country one way or another, but I would argue that the US has not in the last 3+ years (the assumption that becuase Duba is a Christian he is making wholesale changes and now we are on this fastrack to being a Christian version of the Taliban in Afganistan) this country has not made any wholesale huge jumps towards being fundamentalist Christian.

I'd say banning the teaching of whole branches of Science because they don't fit in with your blinkered world view in several entire states is somewhat of a wholesale shift!

It's funny the fastest growing Chrisitan nation is the world today is South Korea, almost 95% of the population is Christian, their president is also a professing Christian..........but somehow no one seems to have a problem with that........LOL (I know, they are not a world leader/superpower/role model for the rest of the world).

I don't think they've abandoned progres yet because of it...

If more Christians realized that Christianity is a way of life and not merely some "stuff" they agree with, I think you folks that currently have a problem with Christianity wouldn't.

Actually I prefer my Christians casual if I have a choice. The full on lifestlye people are normally the ones who refuse to think for themselves.

 

[N8 v2.0]

....
so i find your ignorace much funnier.

No, you!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

We are becoming more religous.......or let me be specific becoming more Christian (which is what people seem to have the most "problem" with)?

We must be watching two different realities, from what I have seen I don't see this country moving at all towards being more "Christian". You cite Kansas teaching/not teaching evolution, I would cite as a counter the whole gay marriage issue, the gay Bishop in New Hampshire.

I'm sure we could go back and fourth ad infinitum on issues we think are pulling this country one way or another, but I would argue that the US has not in the last 3+ years (the assumption that becuase Duba is a Christian he is making wholesale changes and now we are on this fastrack to being a Christian version of the Taliban in Afganistan) this country has not made any wholesale huge jumps towards being fundamentalist Christian.

It's funny the fastest growing Chrisitan nation is the world today is South Korea, almost 95% of the population is Christian, their president is also a professing Christian..........but somehow no one seems to have a problem with that........LOL (I know, they are not a world leader/superpower/role model for the rest of the world).

If more Christians realized that Christianity is a way of life and not merely some "stuff" they agree with, I think you folks that currently have a problem with Christianity wouldn't.

i dont see a problem with a nation becoming more spiritual or religious or anything. in fact it can help to strenghten cultural ties within a nation.

BUT too much of anything is a bad thing, and some places of the US have already gone far around the corner in that dpt.

whenever religion (whichever it is, christianism, judaism, islam) goes far enough to push religious issues with its political agenda, THEN you start getting problems. whenever religious fanatism, but not moral or ethics, get in the way of progess and improvement the you are deep in crap.

now i see the problem not laying in religion itself, but in religious fanatism that believes it is the only infallible source of ethics and moral standards. (which is not, because some religiously correct things, are nowadays barbaric). so is in this in-definition of ethics and morals, or better said, in the "monopoly" (for fanatics) of ethics and morals of religion in which religious fanatics play and impose theirs as the only one,

when in fact morals and ethics vary from society to another, and are not monopoly of any religion, of course within the frame of a worldwide UN given human rights thingy.

so i think religion should be within the limits of ethics, insted of the other way around. and ethics being the parameter for progess and improvement, not religion.

 

[Andyman_1970]

No, more religious. Figures show that CHristianity is actually down whilst number of people following other religions such as Islam, Judaism, Paganism is up.

That's what I figured. I really don't have a problem with that, in this country you are free to practice whatever religion you want.

Gay mariage is only an issue because of the rise of the religious right. Normal people don't have a problem with it. And the Gay Bishop - He's a Bishop. Again an issue based on religious beliefs.

I disagree with that statement. You said earlier that Christianity is not on the rise, but actually down. But I would imagine your comment on the "rise" of the religious right is referring to Duba and how he is supposedly turning the US into a fundamentalist religious nation like Afganistan under the Taliban. But that was not the comment I was disagreeing with, I have talked to a lot of people and seen some polls that the "normal" american is not for gay marriage. But "normal" americans are not enlightened thinkers so what they think about an issue doesn't really matter..................

I'd say banning the teaching of whole branches of Science because they don't fit in with your blinkered world view in several entire states is somewhat of a wholesale shift!

States are free to make laws as they see fit, this has not been mandated by the federal gov't. If you don't like what a school is or isn't teaching, put your kids in a different school or here's an idea, teach your kids how you want them to be taught.............shocking...........

I would argue that the "legalization" of gay marraige in several states is a wholesale shift the other direction.

Actually I prefer my Christians casual if I have a choice. The full on lifestlye people are normally the ones who refuse to think for themselves.

Let me sit on this one for a while. Being a Christian is a full on lifestyle, no where in the Scriptures (if your a Christian this is what you go by) does it say "just agree with or believe these 11, or 5 or 13 things and 'poof' your a Christian". Being a Christian is the way you live, something modern Christainity has moved away from.

I think I know what you are trying to say though, the "full on in your face, now is the time to come to Jesus, you don't want to go to hell do you" kind of Christian. Am I right? I would be willing to assume this is the kind of Christian most people on here have a problem with.

The problem is, this is not what it means to be a follower of Jesus. He never came up to a person and presented the gospel and said "you don't want to go to Hell do you"? For those that were truly seeking the answers to life He had infinite patience and was very non-confrontational. However (and this is where I think modern evangelical Christianity misses the target) He did get wound up at the religious leaders of the day, He even calls them at one point "sons of Hell". He does this because they are suppose to speak for and know God, and yet they have cold calous hearts for the poor, broken, sick and marginalized around them. I beleive that if Jesus were here today, there would be ALOT of Christian pastors/preachers/bishops/ministers that He would call "son's of Hell". The modern church for the most part from what I have seen has forgotten that we are to care about the things God cares about, not just stand up on a Sunday morning and preach about how bad "fags" are.

Anyway, sorry for that, rant off.

[edit]Ohhh, I missed your comment about "not thinking for themselves":
I agree most Christians don't but not because the Scriptures tell them not too (they say just the opposite) it's because some pastor/preacher/etc. has said the world is bad, so just do what I say is ok/correct/permissible. The problem is, the Scriptures tell Christians to "test everything", everything. The Apostle Paul quote pagan prophets and poets, now how would he have been able to do that? He would have had to have studied their works. It's funny how this is not preached, or advocated in churches. It seems like the only thing we are "allowed" to read/watch/study is something with the word "Christian" in front of it. The word Christian in the Bible is only used as a noun not an adjective. God's Truth is bigger than modern Christianity, from my point of view any truth out there regardless of it's authorship is ulitmately from God, even if it doesn't come from Christian sources.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Drivers to Be Tested on Scripture
Reuters | Mon Aug 2

ASHGABAT (Reuters) - Knowing the highway code is no longer enough to get a driving license in Turkmenistan, whose autocratic President Saparmurat Niyazov has told future drivers to cram his "sacred" writings to qualify.

"A 16-hour course of the sacred Rukhnama is one of the most important innovations in the (driving learning) program ... to ensure future drivers are educated in the spirit of high moral values of Turkmenistan's society," the state news agency quoted a Niyazov decree as saying Monday.

Niyazov, Turkmenistan's "president for life" and focus of a flourishing personality cult, wrote the Rukhnama (Spiritual World) as a moral guide to his desert nation of 6 million.

The book is already a core part of the school and university curriculum, and a copy of Rukhnama is kept next to the Koran in the Central Asian nation's state-controlled mosques.

 

[llkoolkeg]

...yeah, would be "nice" to have a anglo-saxon equivalent of Iraq in the southern plains.

but really, imo the west feels a culturally homogeneous place. a western european is not much different than a democrat US-er, or a south american, or a canadian.
i feel as comfortable in madrid, buenos aires, lima, boston or montreal. they have their own national flavors, but are still part of the same half-world-wide culture.

but then, in the US you go south of the mason dixie line, and bang!, you just crossed the unknown dimension. is like going into the jungles of peru, or deep into tazmania, or the conservative afghanistan. truly, i feel the culture of that half of the US is very different from that in the western block.

to me is so weird and contradictory to watch. that the most powerful country of the world, has this progresist, and this conservative religiously fanatic side.

again, your ignorance comes to the surface...

{wah-wah wah-wah wah-wah wah wah)

...so i find your ignorace much funnier.

For such a cosmopolitan fellow, you sure display a disdainfully provincial attitude towards your hosts. May I be the first to tell you officially that you don't know alpaca $hit from coffee grinds. The most racist, intolerant and ugly cities I have ever been in were Boston and Detroit, both well above the Mason Dixon Line. I'm sure you actually believe that you are part of some enlightened latte-sipping liberal consciousness that trancends international borders, but you aren't. Probably you got your ass beat up by some good ol' boy during wet t-shirt/college night at the local honky tonk and now here you take your hatred of the American South public. You can find people like US Southerners in Southern Germany just like you can find people like San Franciscans in Amsterdam. Level of educational attainment, proximity to a city, home environment and many other factors have more to do with how a person turns out than whether they were born in the US South or not. What do you think- they stir lead shavings into the grits and cornpone so that we all pop out the punanny with lynchin' ropes in our fists?

 

[golgiaparatus]

i dont see a problem with a nation becoming more spiritual or religious or anything. in fact it can help to strenghten cultural ties within a nation.

BUT too much of anything is a bad thing, and some places of the US have already gone far around the corner in that dpt.

whenever religion (whichever it is, christianism, judaism, islam) goes far enough to push religious issues with its political agenda, THEN you start getting problems. whenever religious fanatism, but not moral or ethics, get in the way of progess and improvement the you are deep in crap.

now i see the problem not laying in religion itself, but in religious fanatism that believes it is the only infallible source of ethics and moral standards. (which is not, because some religiously correct things, are nowadays barbaric). so is in this in-definition of ethics and morals, or better said, in the "monopoly" (for fanatics) of ethics and morals of religion in which religious fanatics play and impose theirs as the only one,

when in fact morals and ethics vary from society to another, and are not monopoly of any religion, of course within the frame of a worldwide UN given human rights thingy.

so i think religion should be within the limits of ethics, insted of the other way around. and ethics being the parameter for progess and improvement, not religion.

Never go to Siloam Springs Arkansas, home of John Brown University. Nothing but Evangelistic Babtists, the whole town . The political agenda of this place=the Bible.

 

[Archslater]

I see this thread stayed on topic for a whole two posts.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

For such a cosmopolitan fellow, you sure display a disdainfully provincial attitude towards your hosts. May I be the first to tell you officially that you don't know alpaca $hit from coffee grinds. The most racist, intolerant and ugly cities I have ever been in were Boston and Detroit, both well above the Mason Dixon Line. I'm sure you actually believe that you are part of some enlightened latte-sipping liberal consciousness that trancends international borders, but you aren't. Probably you got your ass beat up by some good ol' boy during wet t-shirt/college night at the local honky tonk and now here you take your hatred of the American South public. You can find people like US Southerners in Southern Germany just like you can find people like San Franciscans in Amsterdam. Level of educational attainment, proximity to a city, home environment and many other factors have more to do with how a person turns out than whether they were born in the US South or not. What do you think- they stir lead shavings into the grits and cornpone so that we all pop out the punanny with lynchin' ropes in our fists?

well yeah, i accept that and apologize as i might have pushed something with my post, of course personal stuff have a lot to do. but i talk about demographic blocks, not individuals. some people in Alabama are like you say, but their demographics show a big disproportion from the rest of the US, or not????????? kinda like it would be to have a franco's spain in the EU right now. would you think of it a weird?????????????

but as a rule people seem out place, that those demographics as a sizable block are very rare everywhere else in the developed world. where else do you see folks pushing religious issues? or gun carrying issues? other than in south america, or the ME????

the demographics of alabama (or the deep south) are very different from those seen everywhere else up north. and its very weird to have such a backwards place right in the middle of the US. and well, i dont like it sometimes,

but the fact that am there, well, means i dont have such a "hatred" towards it but more of a scratching-my-head-wondering-lets-dissect-it look at it.

i liked boston a crapload, but i could not get into any school in there, so because i hated cold weathers (the worst thing i could have used a reason to choose a school), when i wanted to transfer from nyc i only had alabama, texas, and fullerton to choose from. since marshall space center is in alabama, i thought it would be a good choice.

 

[Changleen]

That's what I figured. I really don't have a problem with that, in this country you are free to practice whatever religion you want.

Or, I hope, not practice any religion and tell people what a crock of **** you think it all is?

I disagree with that statement. You said earlier that Christianity is not on the rise, but actually down. But I would imagine your comment on the "rise" of the religious right is referring to Duba and how he is supposedly turning the US into a fundamentalist religious nation like Afganistan under the Taliban. But that was not the comment I was disagreeing with, I have talked to a lot of people and seen some polls that the "normal" american is not for gay marriage. But "normal" americans are not enlightened thinkers so what they think about an issue doesn't really matter..................

Ah, if only that were true. Unfortunatley "normal" Americans get to vote, so it does matter quite a lot what they think. And as for gay mariage, 76.5% of Americans identify themselves as Christian (that is scary to me but anyway) and 60% of Americans are against Gay marriage. (source: www.people-press.org) Likewise basically everyone who identifies themselves as anti gay marriage also is a "Christian". Therefore to me it is an issue of people taking the word of the bible or more likely their preacher above common sense (ie It doesn't matter for **** if Gay people can marry or not, It won't affect me at all so I should just keep my nose out of where it don't belong) which is what I REALLY have an issue with - willfull ignorance.

States are free to make laws as they see fit, this has not been mandated by the federal gov't. If you don't like what a school is or isn't teaching, put your kids in a different school or here's an idea, teach your kids how you want them to be taught.............shocking...........

Yes, great in theory, but how many people in Kansas would really move out of the state, take their kids out of school, or do any of that to avoid being mistaught? You know as well as I do it's gonna be a tiny number. Most will just grin and bear it, or more worryingly support it! Now, I have no problem with the teaching of alternative theories, but banning the teaching of science that is accepted fact in 98% of the world because it doesn't fit in with what it says in this book? I really don't see how anyone could support that. It's basically facist, isn't it?

I would argue that the "legalization" of gay marraige in several states is a wholesale shift the other direction.

No State has legalised it as far as I am aware - San Francisco and a couple of other places did it for a few weeks before getting shut down. I would agree with your point in principle though. I hope it happens. You are the land of the free after all, arn't you?

Let me sit on this one for a while. Being a Christian is a full on lifestyle, no where in the Scriptures (if your a Christian this is what you go by) does it say "just agree with or believe these 11, or 5 or 13 things and 'poof' your a Christian". Being a Christian is the way you live, something modern Christainity has moved away from.

I think I know what you are trying to say though, the "full on in your face, now is the time to come to Jesus, you don't want to go to hell do you" kind of Christian. Am I right? I would be willing to assume this is the kind of Christian most people on here have a problem with.

Yup, pretty much. I still (as you know) have a real problem with people just 'believing' everything the bible says or their preacher syas because of their 'religion' - to me it's just abandoning of personal responsibilty, abandonment of critical and individual thought - the basic problem with America today. It's like fvcking Fox News!

The problem is, this is not what it means to be a follower of Jesus. He never came up to a person and presented the gospel and said "you don't want to go to Hell do you"? For those that were truly seeking the answers to life He had infinite patience and was very non-confrontational. However (and this is where I think modern evangelical Christianity misses the target) He did get wound up at the religious leaders of the day, He even calls them at one point "sons of Hell". He does this because they are suppose to speak for and know God, and yet they have cold calous hearts for the poor, broken, sick and marginalized around them. I beleive that if Jesus were here today, there would be ALOT of Christian pastors/preachers/bishops/ministers that He would call "son's of Hell". The modern church for the most part from what I have seen has forgotten that we are to care about the things God cares about, not just stand up on a Sunday morning and preach about how bad "fags" are.

I don't know too much about the details of what 'Jesus' was alledged to have done, but your argument that 'Jesus' would criticise current Preachers also reflects a lot of my concerns about the state of Religious worship today. I hope Christians as a whole can realise this and maybe something about it.

Anyway, sorry for that, rant off.

[edit]Ohhh, I missed your comment about "not thinking for themselves":
I agree most Christians don't but not because the Scriptures tell them not too (they say just the opposite) it's because some pastor/preacher/etc. has said the world is bad, so just do what I say is ok/correct/permissible. The problem is, the Scriptures tell Christians to "test everything", everything.

Can you do me a favour and remind them about that?

The Apostle Paul quote pagan prophets and poets, now how would he have been able to do that? He would have had to have studied their works. It's funny how this is not preached, or advocated in churches. It seems like the only thing we are "allowed" to read/watch/study is something with the word "Christian" in front of it. The word Christian in the Bible is only used as a noun not an adjective. God's Truth is bigger than modern Christianity, from my point of view any truth out there regardless of it's authorship is ulitmately from God, even if it doesn't come from Christian sources.

[/quote]
That is a good thing. Do you believe in evolution yet?

 

[Changleen]

Drivers to Be Tested on Scripture
Reuters | Mon Aug 2

ASHGABAT (Reuters) - Knowing the highway code is no longer enough to get a driving license in Turkmenistan, whose autocratic President Saparmurat Niyazov has told future drivers to cram his "sacred" writings to qualify.

blah blah blah mosques.

N8, Did you accidentally just post that in here or do you actually go round intentionally posting off topic material, or do you just not understand all these big words flying about? Whatever the answer is, don't bother.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Or, I hope, not practice any religion and tell people what a crock of **** you think it all is?

That's fine with me, you're perfectly entitled to you opinions.

Yup, pretty much. I still (as you know) have a real problem with people just 'believing' everything the bible says or their preacher syas because of their 'religion' - to me it's just abandoning of personal responsibilty, abandonment of critical and individual thought - the basic problem with America today. It's like fvcking Fox News!

As I stated earlier, the very tenents of our faith is to question the way the world works, and examine things around us. I'll be the first to admit there are many Christians who just "float" along and do what they are told by whomever, but our Creator gave us a brain to us, not to let turn to jelly.

I don't know too much about the details of what 'Jesus' was alledged to have done, but your argument that 'Jesus' would criticise current Preachers also reflects a lot of my concerns about the state of Religious worship today. I hope Christians as a whole can realise this and maybe something about it.

Can you do me a favour and remind them about that?

I'm trying as hard as I can, LOL, every Sunday.

That is a good thing. Do you believe in evolution yet?

Thanks, and nope and I wouldn't hold your breath either............