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more pics of the 2008 Trek Session 88 DH, I was completley blown away

Stray_cat

Monkey
Nov 13, 2007
460
0
Providence
No, I didn't say that at all. Isnt easy to criticize people and draw unwarranted conclusions? I'm suggesting that the stronger/bigger companies begin to swallow up the smaller ones, or at least ramp up production enough to lower their prices to drive them out of business.

Hehe, don't sweat it. I was just busting balls.

If you wanna see a really consolidated outdoor-industry look at kayaks. It's not pretty. They've managed to flood the market with cheap kayaks, and now that everyone has a boat they're streached thin as they try to innovate and find new customers.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,328
874
coloRADo
I think Trek somehow just went head to head with Foes pricing, which I never thought was possible. :rofl:
Totally!

One would have to assume they will be coming out with other frames at lower price points. But seriously?! Most Dh'ers I know aren't the same kind of enthusiast that buy $6000 road bikes. If that's what Trek was thinking...
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,876
4,218
Copenhagen, Denmark
Both are top of the line specs. I would think that they later will introduce less expensive versions too.
 
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Demomonkey

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
857
0
Auckland New Zealand
Hehe, don't sweat it. I was just busting balls.

If you wanna see a really consolidated outdoor-industry look at kayaks. It's not pretty. They've managed to flood the market with cheap kayaks, and now that everyone has a boat they're stretched thin as they try to innovate and find new customers.
I agree, and in in addition its hard to see Downhill Mountain bikes becoming main stream. It is a fringe aspect of our sport and always will be.

Yes, we'd all love to see racing hit the TV and Olympic's, but I for one would not like having 5 major players supplying a limited range of of cheap bikes. That does sound slightly boring to me.

Part of the appeal (to me) is the huge range of designs and suppliers. It appeals to my desire to be seen as different (call me shallow). I can go out and buy the latest, rarest frame and yes, it make me feel good. I can spend hours reading about every little detail of all the different designs - and I love it!! Its called being a geek - a bike geek.

If you can't afford an expensive bike, don't bitch about it, buy a cheap one.

Having said that, I don't believe Trek are justified in the prices I am reading about on here. Don't Trek position themselves as an 'everyman' bike co?

I would have realistically thought a price around the $2k - $2.5k mark would have been more on the money. Perhaps they are just trying to make up for losses on the Session 10 and Diesel.
 
other than weight, what are the advantages of ABP over a typical floater?

i looked at the design in person and i was stoked to see other companies finally starting to offer floating brake style setups that are built into the bike, because as Sully says, "why pay more for performance that should be standard?", but i dont see why it has to be so insanely expensive... doesnt seem to me that Rotecs are any more expensive because they have floaters built into them...
yeah i know theres a bunch of shiat they worked through with Fox on the shock, but that doesnt really cost that much does it?

what else is there to make the bike worth the money?

not saying i will ever get one, i'm sticking to Rotec forever!
just curious...
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Part of the appeal (to me) is the huge range of designs and suppliers. It appeals to my desire to be seen as different (call me shallow). I can go out and buy the latest, rarest frame and yes, it make me feel good.
What would appeal to me and make me feel good is saving getting a top end bike for 1-2k less than I can now so i can afford gas to do shuttle runs and drive to northstar and mammoth more. As much as I love reading about bikes and such, I like riding mine more :)
 

Demomonkey

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
857
0
Auckland New Zealand
What would appeal to me and make me feel good is saving getting a top end bike for 1-2k less than I can now so i can afford gas to do shuttle runs and drive to northstar and mammoth more. As much as I love reading about bikes and such, I like riding mine more :)
Fair enough, but high-end bikes don't come in at the $2K price point. That would be a mid range bike. Which to comment on this thread, I would expect Trek to be pitching its 88 at.

I too prefer to ride.

As for gas prices.......f**ken futures traders!!!!

Happy trails.
 

dirtdigger

Monkey
Mar 18, 2007
126
0
N.zud
whats the big deal about this bike? no different than a single pivot with a floater or fsr type.

i did have ideas about building a axle pivot design just like this some time ago but stayed with the fsr setup till now, dont know how something so simple like this can be patented?
and to give it a cool marketing name is just a crack up, laugh every time i read it.

i wonder how long this light DH frame thing is going to last? maybe as long as the frames?

oh and that floating shock thing WTF, why put more load through the pivot area than you need to? :banghead:
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
whats the big deal about this bike? no different than a single pivot with a floater or fsr type.

i did have ideas about building a axle pivot design just like this some time ago but stayed with the fsr setup till now, dont know how something so simple like this can be patented?
and to give it a cool marketing name is just a crack up, laugh every time i read it.

i wonder how long this light DH frame thing is going to last? maybe as long as the frames?

oh and that floating shock thing WTF, why put more load through the pivot area than you need to? :banghead:
The floating shock will decrease load through the pivot area since it is now split between 2 points rather than one fixed and another moving. It is also supposed to make for a more active initial stroke. I like the look of the bike, but would want to ride one. I don't see how Specialized can come out with a bike at that price point and similar weight and all is cool, but Trek does it and they're out of their mind. I know that I like what I see.
 

.Pit Steelers.

Nostradumbass
Jun 18, 2006
1,429
0
Hawaii
whats the big deal about this bike? no different than a single pivot with a floater or fsr type.

i did have ideas about building a axle pivot design just like this some time ago but stayed with the fsr setup till now, dont know how something so simple like this can be patented?
and to give it a cool marketing name is just a crack up, laugh every time i read it.

i wonder how long this light DH frame thing is going to last? maybe as long as the frames?

oh and that floating shock thing WTF, why put more load through the pivot area than you need to? :banghead:

Yeah same here you know that thing your looking at the computer screen, well i came up with that i just never told anyone. Same goes for what is now known as a microwave oven. Well i came up with that too.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
whats the big deal about this bike? no different than a single pivot with a floater or fsr type.

i did have ideas about building a axle pivot design just like this some time ago but stayed with the fsr setup till now, dont know how something so simple like this can be patented?
and to give it a cool marketing name is just a crack up, laugh every time i read it.

i wonder how long this light DH frame thing is going to last? maybe as long as the frames?

oh and that floating shock thing WTF, why put more load through the pivot area than you need to? :banghead:

YEA....!!!.....
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Fair enough, but high-end bikes don't come in at the $2K price point. That would be a mid range bike. Which to comment on this thread, I would expect Trek to be pitching its 88 at.

I too prefer to ride.

As for gas prices.......f**ken futures traders!!!!

Happy trails.
I didn't say 2k, i said 2k less. I'd be happy if my bike as it stood was 3k instead of 5k. :'(. Oh well, maybe someday. Maybe I should start riding pedal trails instead of shuttle or lift trails.
 

acme54321

Chimp
Mar 22, 2004
38
0
But there is no way in hell I'm paying that much for a frame when I can buy a morewood that is hand built. But still sick
What makes you thing these bikes are not hand built? Do you really think they have a robot welding these things up?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,936
24,506
media blackout
oh and that floating shock thing WTF, why put more load through the pivot area than you need to? :banghead:
by removing the added stresses of having a shock mounted to the front triangle, you can make the front triangle lighter. Enough to offset the increase in weight needed to sufficiently strengthen the pivots/pivot area.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,936
24,506
media blackout
What makes you thing these bikes are not hand built? Do you really think they have a robot welding these things up?
What makes you think they are? only a handful of trek bikes are made by hand, and those are the full carbon bikes for their team riders (because they are, to the best of my knowledge, one offs). At least that was the status as of 2005 when I worked at a Trek dealer.
 

acme54321

Chimp
Mar 22, 2004
38
0
I work for a Trek dealer now, and as far as I'm aware everything made in the USA is done by hand. As is most of the high end overseas stuff.

Pretty much all higher end MTBs are done by hand. There isn't enough volume to justify spending the capital to set up a robotic welder with all of the tooling, especially considering the rate at which designs in the cycling world change.

I didn't see you mention any proof they were robot welded?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,936
24,506
media blackout
I work for a Trek dealer now, and as far as I'm aware everything made in the USA is done by hand. As is most of the high end overseas stuff.

Pretty much all higher end MTBs are done by hand. There isn't enough volume to justify spending the capital to set up a robotic welder with all of the tooling, especially considering the rate at which designs in the cycling world change.

I didn't see you mention any proof they were robot welded?
When you refer to "all high end MTB's are done by hand" are you referring to Trek's offerings, or across the industry? Since I worked at a Trek Dealer, a lot more of the high end MTB (and road) offerings from Trek have shifted to carbon. Granted I was incorrect to state that their only their team riders get hand made frames, I've been out of the loop on Trek. I was never particularly interested in them in the first place.


Yes, the setup costs of automated welding are high, but for a particular line of bikes (say the 6 series MTB), the frames in most cases are the identical (aside from paint job). What differentiates them is parts spec. This would help offset automation setup costs.
 
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acme54321

Chimp
Mar 22, 2004
38
0
I was referring to the industry as a whole. I'm not talking about cheap entry level stuff here. Even though a lot of that is done by hand too.

And not all of Trek/Fisher high end is carbon.
 

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
Sorry to shatter any dreams but I've been to a ton of frame factories (including ones that do work for Trek) and have yet to see a robot. There is a VERY small amount of automated welding (for certain pieces or construction but not whole frames) but all fully under the control and watchful eye of an actual human being.

-ska todd
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Sorry to shatter any dreams but I've been to a ton of frame factories (including ones that do work for Trek) and have yet to see a robot. There is a VERY small amount of automated welding (for certain pieces or construction but not whole frames) but all fully under the control and watchful eye of an actual human being.

-ska todd
if you'd have poured water on that Asian guy...you'd have found your robot.
 

unskilled

Monkey
Jul 12, 2007
218
0
bout time they tried to redeem themselves for the session 10. i don't trust anything that light for dh.
 

igz-

Monkey
Nov 30, 2008
265
0
Santa Cruz
I was thinking the same thing with the wheels being AM. Throw a pir of Industry nine hubs and spokes with a mavic 823 rim or what ever there downhill rim is called it will be a little heavier. But, it is a huge improvment over there plow bike the session 10. But there is no way in hell I'm paying that much for a frame when I can buy a morewood that is hand built. But still sick
The 88 is hand built too... so is every other bike... :bonk:
 

DHS

Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy
Apr 23, 2002
5,094
0
Sand, CA
Never seen a dented frame before? its a DH bike. its going to happen if you take a hard crash. anything can dent
 

ronan

Monkey
Dec 7, 2007
786
0
Toulouse, France
Never seen a dented frame before? its a DH bike. its going to happen if you take a hard crash. anything can dent
the bottom one was from it falling off a scale in a shop before it's even been ridden (ebay auction)

the first pic is from the fork bumper or something
 

dhr-racer

Monkey
Jan 24, 2007
410
0
A, A
the bottom one was from it falling off a scale in a shop before it's even been ridden (ebay auction)

the first pic is from the fork bumper or something

i dont know about how valid that could be.... it looks to perfect, does anyone know what it hit? it looks more like someone took a quarter and hammered it on the frame, not like it fell on something on the shop floor
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
i dont know about how valid that could be.... it looks to perfect, does anyone know what it hit? it looks more like someone took a quarter and hammered it on the frame, not like it fell on something on the shop floor
Apparently it fell off the scale while being weighted and it hit something on the ground.Valid or not, Ive seen all kind of frame denting , the Session isnt worst than any of them.

The pictures came from these 2 sites:

http://www.dhracer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6715&page=80

http://www.southerndownhill.com/forum/index.php/topic,189574.0.html
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
the bottom one was from it falling off a scale in a shop before it's even been ridden (ebay auction)

the first pic is from the fork bumper or something
I have seen all kinds of frames dented by fork bumpers. Happens when you crash. Time the industry finally agrees on a fork stop standard that integrates it into the frames and forks.
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
I have seen all kinds of frames dented by fork bumpers. Happens when you crash. Time the industry finally agrees on a fork stop standard that integrates it into the frames and forks.
I believe Lapierre is already doing this...and yes company should start making an integrated stop fork thingy...
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,666
500
Sea to Sky BC
dent's from crashes are one thing, but I witnessed brendan's getting a dent in the top tube from being dropped from a few inches and hitting someone else's brake lever....that's ridiculous.....
 

Sam B

Monkey
Nov 25, 2001
280
0
Cascadia
What makes you think they are? only a handful of trek bikes are made by hand, and those are the full carbon bikes for their team riders (because they are, to the best of my knowledge, one offs). At least that was the status as of 2005 when I worked at a Trek dealer.
All frames I am aware of are made by hands. Different bikes are just made by hands in different countries. Show me a bike that was not built by hand...

Tools are tools man... some of them are bigger than others, but last I checked no factories had machines that took material and spit out a frame without someone actually fabricating it. And if they did... hot damn! That would be one hell of a machine and I would probably trust it more than a frame built with human hands. I know I screw things up every once and a while...