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More real estate doom and gloom

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,159
10,097
The county needs affordable housing.

This is affordable housing, and walkable to work + shuttles to town.

I'm not sure what you realistically envision that'd be better.
life isnt fair.

your govt could give a fuck.

social programs are the carrot at the end of a stick.

my inner hippie.
 

junkyard

You might feel a little prick.
Sep 1, 2015
2,616
2,347
San Diego
The simple answer to what @Toshi is asking and @kidwoo is trying to express is a massive reduction in inequality.
1) Tax the rich, and corporations, a LOT more and get rid of all the ridiculous bloat, exceptions and prejudices of your fucked up tax code.
2) Stop wasting half your tax take on your ridiculous amoral military, and OMG stop subsiding fossil fuels.
3) Introduce minimum wages that both are living wages and track inflation.
4) Stop, as a society, believing the childish, ridiculous idea that the needs of the individual have primacy over society as a whole. Ayn Rand wasn’t right, she was a fucking crazy lady.
I see Ayn Rand kinda like the movie idiocracy. She ment it as a tale of capitalism good, I see it as a cautionary tale of what’s going wrong and how billionaires see themselves as they destroy the planet.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
I'm not seeing any other alternatives for affordable housing. Just some hot air about taxing the rich, kidwoo insinuating that lifties should be paid more, etc.

That doesn't solve a housing shortage if that's the underlying issue. Which it is.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,991
22,028
Sleazattle
I assume Kidwoo releases all of his negative energy here so he can behave at home and his sugar momma doesn't put him out on his ass forcing him to build a shed on the back of his flatbed to live in.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I assume Kidwoo releases all of his negative energy here so he can behave at home and his sugar momma doesn't put him out on his ass forcing him to build a shed on the back of his flatbed to live in.
Whatsamadda? Having trouble with the topic?

I live in the equivalent of winter park on steroids. I've watched this exact company do all this shit many times. And this shit is usually a plan that never, ever ends up being what they state they're setting out to do. They do this to save face, and make toshi keep skiing with a clear conscience. They put 6 employees in a single shipping container in vail. These will end up as just another ski area real estate venture.

You think I'm pissed? You should meet my partner. I keep her from buying guns and shooting teslas driving too fast in the neighborhood.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,672
12,472
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I'm sure you see the same thing there. Idiots here complain about the 'look' of some the few apartment buildings built in the last 15 years.
I don’t mind housing where appropriate, we need it.
However, this trend of ‘architecture’ looking like a screenshot of a Minecraft city, I just don’t know how I feel.
Well, yes, maybe I do.

(Hypocrisy alert: I live in a gussified Boise Cascade Prefab, with lipstick on its pig-snout).
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I don’t mind housing where appropriate, we need it.
However, this trend of ‘architecture’ looking like a screenshot of a Minecraft city, I just don’t know how I feel.
Well, yes, maybe I do.

(Hypocrisy alert: I live in a gussified Boise Cascade Prefab, with lipstick on its pig-snout).
Nah the apartments here look fine. Nothing like that.

It's just bitches complaining about poor people living next to them. It's not about the architecture.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
Whatsamadda? Having trouble with the topic?

I live in the equivalent of winter park on steroids. I've watched this exact company do all this shit many times. And this shit is usually a plan that never, ever ends up being what they state they're setting out to do. They do this to save face, and make toshi keep skiing with a clear conscience. They put 6 employees in a single shipping container in vail. These will end up as just another ski area real estate venture.

You think I'm pissed? You should meet my partner. I keep her from buying guns and shooting teslas driving too fast in the neighborhood.
So what should Alterra be doing, in your opinion? Paying lifties $25/hr won't matter if there are not units to rent for a reasonable proportion of that. Building several hundred units on site seems a whole lot better for workers than putting people down-valley, literally, a la Epic's plan. (Although Epic did try to build housing in Vail proper, shot down by NIMBYs protecting mountain goat habitat.)

For the record, I'm in favor of eliminating density regulations (and parking minimums) everywhere. Including my neighborhood. We need more housing. Lots of it.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
So what should Alterra be doing, in your opinion? Paying lifties $25/hr won't matter if there are not units to rent for a reasonable proportion of that. Building several hundred units on site seems a whole lot better for workers than putting people down-valley, literally, a la Epic's plan. (Although Epic did try to build housing in Vail proper, shot down by NIMBYs protecting mountain goat habitat.)

For the record, I'm in favor of eliminating density regulations (and parking minimums) everywhere. Including my neighborhood. We need more housing. Lots of it.
You're addressing a symptom. This is the topic du jour but throughout the entirety of this thread I've said it over, and over, and over again. We do NOT have a structure problem. We have an ownership problem. As in we have houses. We don't have housING because those structures aren't being used as houses. They're being used as amenities.

You can build all the structures you want but they're just going to get eaten up by the same greed that killed the current housing stock. That's air bnbs and 2nd, 3rd, and 4th homes for you know who. But entire towns disappear (this one included) just because some rich fuck from nowhere near there wants to do one of the above to the housing. You need to get county leaders with courage, not real estate portfolios.

And yes WP and all the others need to pay people more. Don't you dare use expensive rent to justify NOT doing that.
 
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Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,904
16,466
where the trails are
Investment properties should be taxed at such a ridiculous rate to discourage or even prohibit institutional investment.

Alterra made $1.2B last year, Vail? almost $3B. They ABSOLUTELY can afford to pay living wages for the rich environments in which they operate.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
Investment properties should be taxed at such a ridiculous rate to discourage or even prohibit institutional investment.

Alterra made $1.2B last year, Vail? almost $3B. They ABSOLUTELY can afford to pay living wages for the rich environments in which they operate.

fwiw here are the data for Grand County. assumptions of full time employment and $873/mo apartment availability are tenuous in this setting.

and how it compares to what's reported for WP:

 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
"you deserve the shit conditions"
such projection

as a former ski resort employee, are most employees employed full time, year round (2080 hours)?

and are $873/mo apartments readily available for rent in Grand County?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
as a former ski resort employee, are most employees employed full time, year round (2080 hours)?
Depends on the job. And that's changing as more of them start bike parking and doing other summer shit. Winter Park have anything like a bike park or anything like that?

Using a LIVING (as in bare minimum necessity to literally not die) wage as a benchmark makes you look far more clueless and removed than you can possibly imagine :rofl:
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
Nick literally used that term. You really love to be hard headed about everything, eh
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Nick literally used that term. You really love to be hard headed about everything, eh
And then you ran with it, thinking some MIT generated approximation has fuck all to do with anything, when what I'm talking out is the complete stripping of entire towns, in the interest of entertainment or investments for people who don't live there. Living wage numbers do nothing but define the ludicrous line.

It's the equivalent of making ivory tower proclamations about people's living conditions that you'd be appalled to be subject to yourself.

IF (and that's a big if) you can even find rentals in places like this anymore, they regularly get stripped out from under you when the landlord decides they want to sell because property values went up, or because a friend just convinced them at a cocktail party how lucrative airbnb can be.

You can clutch your pearls all you want. Trust me, you're not coming up with anything I haven't already heard in real life here, a million times. And it's ALWAYS from someone who doesn't live in the area in question, and has a vested interest in not actually addressing real problems.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,744
8,745
I grew up in a 2 bedroom apartment on the 30th story of a low rent apartment building in NYC. I also lived for a year in Seattle on $20k when I was an intern. Projecting myself to be 20 years old and working seasonally at WP, I'd be psyched they're building housing on site, and would think people ranting on the internet about how it's slave quarters are just full of hot air.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I grew up in a 2 bedroom apartment on the 30th story of a low rent apartment building in NYC. I also lived for a year in Seattle on $20k when I was an intern. Projecting myself to be 20 years old and working seasonally at WP, I'd be psyched they're building housing on site, and would think people ranting on the internet about how it's slave quarters are just full of hot air.
Tell me more about your bootstraps. You poor thing, both poverty stricken parents meeting a berkeley.....

You really do sound like a boomer. bAcK iN mY dAy.....

It's different now. It's different than when I moved to a similar area here 23 years ago. You will never get this. Rentals largely do not exist. I lived in the woods in a tent one summer but that was to save up some money. I could have at least found a room to rent. THAT IS GONE. And that's largely in part due to what this company has done. Even IF they actually follow through with this and don't repurpose the structures, the damage they've done to the valley carries on. They just keep the cheap labor about to fund those numbers that nick posted for vail and alterra and to keep you blowing smoke up your own ass so you never ever have to face the stark reality that you, as in you personally, are part of the bigger problem.