Keystone opened Cowboy Up to TNT today. Still no Motorhead or Paid in Full (maybe by the weekend.)
More Trails Open at Keystone
- Thread starter sweatyrussell
- Start date
i would rather wait for vail
what's a day ticket cost this summer?
Vail... woo hoo....
Who's going to Vail on Sun?
Who's going to Vail on Sun?
$28 Unlimitedfuzzynutz said:
Good thing I didn't go up last weekend. I really want to ride Paid in Full. Any news of them adding more trails this year?
Last year the Keystone trail crew told us there was a 20 foot drop in the makings somewhere, maybe Keystones version of Whistlers GLC drop or something? I didn't see it over the weekend but about 50% of the mountain was closed (you definitely didn't miss anything), people were pretty much stuck on the fire road down to Wild Thing...Ascentrek said:
wow and wildthing is possibly their worst trail. hmmmmm new trails would be good they need them.
no new trails being built at Keystone or Vail this year, from a reliable source
winter park is goint to step it up though, new black dh run opened last week , havent been yet...has anyone????
that wooden ramp sticking out of the trees, the one you see from the lift- you could probably get 20 feet off of that if you really pushed it and landed at the bottom. Hopefully they meant another one tho.
Waiting impatiently for Vail. Keystone is OK but not worth repeated trips until 100% open. I've heard nothing but good news about Winter Park- we'll see if any of it is true.
Waiting impatiently for Vail. Keystone is OK but not worth repeated trips until 100% open. I've heard nothing but good news about Winter Park- we'll see if any of it is true.
Keystone has 6 DH trails approved by the forest service. They have told us they do not have the time or resources to construct them. They also said the will not accept volunteer help to construct them. Sounds very lame to me.
As for the drop on Paid-in-full by the lift. I am not sure of the height, but you can easily land below the rocks just past the end of the wooden ladder. The landing is still fairly smooth too.
As for the drop on Paid-in-full by the lift. I am not sure of the height, but you can easily land below the rocks just past the end of the wooden ladder. The landing is still fairly smooth too.
winter park- "the downhill" is uhh... well... it's a trail there where hiking isnt allowed and for the most part it does tend to live up to it's name and go down the hill for most of the trail. it's nothing nuts, nothing really hard- but it is fun to ride your bike so it has that going for it. im going to be up there tomorrow helping throw dirt for some new dirt jump lines. dont expect arbor. they are in a three year project right now so the first season might seem weak but everything comes in baby steps. especially when dealing with the forrest service and risk assesment folks.
wp will be clearing up red tape this season but expect construction to maybe start on an actual 'black' dh course next season if things go well.
wp will be clearing up red tape this season but expect construction to maybe start on an actual 'black' dh course next season if things go well.
Yeah I was thinking it was about an 18ish footer if you clear the wood, but the trail crew told me it was going to be something new, so it shouldn't be that floater.NORTON said:
I don't understand why Keystone doesn't have the manpower to build these new trails? It's not like I'm seeing a lot of trail maintenance, wild thing was just as beaten up last year in September when they closed. Perhaps they should focus more on adding trails on the mountain instead of more play-things at the base...
A dh bike on Winter Parks trails is definitely overkill, but they do have top notch xc riding!
no more 'Ol 9 kids.....Im bummed ~Vail says too much erosion.....they still say they have a top-to-bottom run
Building trail takes lots of man-hours of labor. And when you're already pretty much the only game in town, where's the incentive?ladge said:
I'll bet if you see Winter Park get their $hit together then Vail Associates might change their tune.
Unless, of course, DH is such a small contribution to their bottom line that they'll not do *anything* until the DH population reaches some sort of critical mass.
I ran into one of the trail builders from silverton mountain (on a lift at whistler of all places - doing some researchSkaredShtles said:
), who said that they build a new trail every one or two weeks over the summer. Seems like Keystone/Vail are just sitting on their monopoly of the area. If only silverton was closer......Jonathan
Well - Silverton also has the *distinct* advantage of having most of their bike terrain (if not all) on private land owned by Silverton Mountain.Chutney said:I ran into one of the trail builders from silverton mountain (on a lift at whistler of all places - doing some research
Alot of red tape is eliminated when you don't have to deal with the Forest Service, BLM, etc.
I too wish Silverton was closer:
Old 9 was unsustainable from the get-go. The first thought that ran through my head when I rode it last year was that it wouldn't last one season. The sad part about that is; what the hell were they thinking when they built it? Do they have morons building trails at vail?EVILTWIN said:
Vail doesn't want dh biking. They made that clear years ago. They'll just keep one run open just to shut us up.
Mmmm...... I like Vail, but not for DH.Renegade said:
neaky:
As of about 4:45 this afternoon, Motorhead and Upper Paid in Full were officially open.
Motorhead was totally dry, Paid in Full was wet in a few spots as they had to trench through a few snow drifts.
Motorhead was totally dry, Paid in Full was wet in a few spots as they had to trench through a few snow drifts.
Uh, they, if you mean vail mountain, never had permission for all those trails. All the trails you're refering to were built illegally, by local riders, without the permission of vail or the forest service. Vail knew of their existence, but they allowed it to go on for a few years, as it "wasn't hurting anyone". Something changed over one winter, and come the next season, vail closed them all down, and threatened riders with fines and punishment should they be caught riding those trails. Even the trail builders were chased down, and threatened with criminal charges. Vail told riders that the forest service was leaning hard on them over illegal trails, and they didn't want to jepoardize their relationship with the forest service, so they shut 'em down. I know that sounds like complete bullsh!t when you look at what raping of the landscape happens in regards to the ski aspect of the vail/ F.S. marraige, but that's the nature of big money relationships. Vail is much more interested in the destination traveler visiting their resort over the summer than a bunch of scrungy, armor clad bikers. Ditto for beaver creek. we just don't rate.biker said:
End of history lesson and rant.
Yep, Renegade has it nailed. I lived in vail for years and was around when the scenario he's talking about took place. I Have close friends who work in mountain management and they stated summer lifts are a $ loser. I was told $10,000 a day cost. I'm not sure if that is insurance, labor ect., but I do know on it's busiest of days they are not even getting close to 10,000 from DH sales. Soo when people say that numbers will persuade them to listen...Fat chance. It is good to see they are making some efforts but they are at the hands of the forest service and no way will they jepordize their lease to appease the DH crowd.
Renegade, who are you and what were you riding back around 2000? I have a feeling I know you.
Renegade, who are you and what were you riding back around 2000? I have a feeling I know you.
" Something changed over one winterSomething changed over one winter , and come the next season, vail closed them all down, and threatened riders with fines and punishment should they be caught riding those trails. Even the trail builders were chased down, and threatened with criminal charges."
what the hell happened??
what the hell happened??
Pegboy, I live in Nederland, and in 2000 I was riding a black schwinn straight 8, the model with the pull shock. Most times I rode during the week to avoid the crowds. Before everything got shut down, I was riding a black '01 Dare.
What happened over the winter: All I know is speculation. Some folks may know the truth, but it's not being openly shared. Vail had a couple spins; one was that the forest service just all of a sudden noticed these unmarked an unauthorized trails all over the place, and freaked out, resulting in them putting all sorts of pressure on the resort to do something about it. Apparently, any resorts that lease land from the f.s. have to go through all sorts of application and approval processes for trails. Not wanting to put their money making bussiness in jepeordy, vail did the easy thing; shut them down. Vail also claimed that there were reports that dh riders had on occasion harassed or frightened big dollar destination visitors. The truth is probably a conglomeration of these, and other factors. But the bottom line is $$$. Vail and beaver creek are set up to generate income from wealthy destination travelers, and their greatest income in the summer comes from that source, not dh riding. It was simply a descision based on economics.
At the time, the dh trails at vail were the best in the state. Keystone still hadn't gotten into the game like they're doing now. I lived for riding at vail. Hence my obvious bitterness about the whole outcome.
What happened over the winter: All I know is speculation. Some folks may know the truth, but it's not being openly shared. Vail had a couple spins; one was that the forest service just all of a sudden noticed these unmarked an unauthorized trails all over the place, and freaked out, resulting in them putting all sorts of pressure on the resort to do something about it. Apparently, any resorts that lease land from the f.s. have to go through all sorts of application and approval processes for trails. Not wanting to put their money making bussiness in jepeordy, vail did the easy thing; shut them down. Vail also claimed that there were reports that dh riders had on occasion harassed or frightened big dollar destination visitors. The truth is probably a conglomeration of these, and other factors. But the bottom line is $$$. Vail and beaver creek are set up to generate income from wealthy destination travelers, and their greatest income in the summer comes from that source, not dh riding. It was simply a descision based on economics.
At the time, the dh trails at vail were the best in the state. Keystone still hadn't gotten into the game like they're doing now. I lived for riding at vail. Hence my obvious bitterness about the whole outcome.
$10,000 a day just to break even, huh. How many bikers at say $30 per biker does it take to break even? That's 333 and a third bikers. That's a lot. Dh'ing (and big bike ownership/sales) need to ramp up if ski resorts are going to actually take numbers seriously and do something about more trails and features.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
A thought: You need to weigh those dh dollars againts the dollars vail is pulling in from their summer destination travelers. Mom, dad, the three kids staying at a condo in vail, eating in their restaurants, shopping in their stores, partaking in fee activities; I don't know where to begin putting a dollar value on it. But there are lots of mom and dad and the kids doing just so at vail.SylentK said:
Or you can be like Copper advertise heavily towards the road riders. They stay at your place eat at your restaurants but ride the state built roads.
Their is money in DH riding but it takes alot more initial money to get it going than other money makers. Unfortunately for us the resorts like to take the easy road. Keystone will not let volunteers help construct the trails. This is a stupid decision. Turning down free labor that will in the end make you money.
Their is money in DH riding but it takes alot more initial money to get it going than other money makers. Unfortunately for us the resorts like to take the easy road. Keystone will not let volunteers help construct the trails. This is a stupid decision. Turning down free labor that will in the end make you money.
Steamboat has the same friggin' idiotic mentality. I hope ASC dies a quick and painful death doing the ski resort community a favor. Then, maybe a kewl family like the Meulers can come in and make good things happen.
Edit: How in the hell the powers that be in resorts like this ever got in to the management position is a friggin' mystery in itself. How in the hell a ski area stays afloat w/ morons at the steering wheel is another. Oh wait, ASC isn't floating! It's exec board was "bailing water" like mad recently by dumping all of their "non-revenue generating" resorts... God damn dizzy idiots!
Edit: How in the hell the powers that be in resorts like this ever got in to the management position is a friggin' mystery in itself. How in the hell a ski area stays afloat w/ morons at the steering wheel is another. Oh wait, ASC isn't floating! It's exec board was "bailing water" like mad recently by dumping all of their "non-revenue generating" resorts... God damn dizzy idiots!
Okay, I'll go off on my rant:
Why the FVCK would the forest service even care about a few biking trails, illegally or not. Lets get serious; Vail is gawdam eyesore as it is. Lifts, houses, crappy little I-70 town and gobs of resturants all over the dam mountain. Why does the forest service even have to be involved? Does someone really think that they might 'reclaim' the land and let it all grow back? NO! It doesn't take anything to build a second road to the ever popular Central city because Blackcock was taking their revenue! ...and we can't build a simple trail without doing an environmental study?
I'll abide by the "Forest Service" rule for now, but I'm getting fed up with the fact that bike riders can't go places they want to. The dam mountains are littered with idiots as it is, either just let it go, or close all, period.
I'm getting all worked up... I'll stop.
Why the FVCK would the forest service even care about a few biking trails, illegally or not. Lets get serious; Vail is gawdam eyesore as it is. Lifts, houses, crappy little I-70 town and gobs of resturants all over the dam mountain. Why does the forest service even have to be involved? Does someone really think that they might 'reclaim' the land and let it all grow back? NO! It doesn't take anything to build a second road to the ever popular Central city because Blackcock was taking their revenue! ...and we can't build a simple trail without doing an environmental study?
I'll abide by the "Forest Service" rule for now, but I'm getting fed up with the fact that bike riders can't go places they want to. The dam mountains are littered with idiots as it is, either just let it go, or close all, period.
I'm getting all worked up... I'll stop.
It happened at Berthoud.Ascentrek said:
They even tore the lodge down.
Before you read the below, please remember, I'm on your side.Ascentrek said:
The forest serice is involved because the land is leased to vail by the united states of america, the agency that manages that lease is the forest service. So it is the forest service who plays out half of the money/corruption cycle.
The road to blackcock [I like that name!] was all about money. Alot of money can make things like environmental studies a non -issue. And land easements. Money=Corruption.
" The dam mountains are littered with idiots as it is, either just let it go, or close all, period." Believe me, there are tree hugging environmentalists who would love nothing more than to see access to the national forests be on foot only.