[MtnBikerNJ]

Ah then why is it most people know where you went to school, but I did not bring it up until Craig's comments (which he has brought before when he has run out of valid arguments) and after you asked...

or how about the fact that you feel you are never wrong, or even worse, fail to recognize that an opposing arguement might have some validity, which is what pisses me off even more. It makes not want to argue about it, because you obviously have no clue and your (as toshi put it) condescending comments show me that.

 

[syadasti]

or how about the fact that you feel you are never wrong, or even worse, fail to recognize that an opposing arguement might have some validity, which is what pisses me off even more. It makes not want to argue about it, because you obviously have no clue and your (as toshi put it) condescending comments show me that.

I've said before in other threads that Apple makes decent products but they aren't the best and have flaws just like any other brand. I've also mentioned that the Rio Karma also has flaws and listed them in other threads.

My main problem with Apple is their BS marketing campaign, unjustified price premiums, tendency to move on to the next latest and greatest "breakthough" product without fixing issues in prior products. They are by no means the only company that does this, but that doesn't make the practices any better. The good thing about Apple is they can take a new technology, make it easy for the average person to use, and a vast majority of the time produce above average products. That still doesn't mean they are the best, but a good option...

Someone might own a Honda or Toyota and know its a very well made car that works terrific for the vast majority of people, but it is by no means the best performing car you can buy...

I wrote for various technical publications in HS and college and was paid to do it the year I worked at http://www.tech-report.com (during which I also attended international IT trade shows and company headquarters). I also have extensive experience with PCs, Commodore (64 and Amiga), Atari, MacOS, and Solaris. I also have experience with BeOS, Suse, Redhat, and FreeBSD. I haven't bought a pre-made computer since the Pentium. I've worked for Lehman Brothers (a project dealing with their entire Sun infrastructure in NJ and NY - about 3000 workstations and servers) and Sony (I helped take Sony Style live).

What exactly is your experience that gives you a broad scope in the scheme of IT, cause the only thing you have mentioned sounds very narrow - managing some macs at your business which would make you seem very myopic.

 

[MtnBikerNJ]

actually I don't feel the need to justify my experience other than I have been using macs for a damn long time. Yea, I've managed a few mac based networks/compuer labs and businesses. At the first business there were some PC's but I didn't have to do much with them thankfully. And yes, I have used pcs at every windows generation, in some capacity. But I keep coming back to the mac because they are simpler, for me, to be productive on. And most of the tech stuff was self-taught.

the thing i have been saying since the dawn-of-time about your arguements, which you still fail to grasp, is that the best computer, for each person, is what they are actually most productive on. if I were writing papers for a living, the best paper would be a pentium 1 with a generic text editor. whatever would let the words get out. for alot of programmers, yea pcs are better because there are more tools for them. graphics are better on a mac, whether you want to believe all of the PC, mac bashing sites or not. try taking a PC generated quark file to a service bureau and see what kind of looks you get... and apple pretty much invented color-management (colorsync), which is a pretty major key for us graphics folk. yea, you can now calibrate a pc monitor, but you would never have been able to do it had the evil apple empire pushed the technology.

josh, you just need to realize that people use pc's for things other than IT.

 

[Toshi]

your resume is impressive. and also irrelevant to MtnBikerNJ's point, which is that your attitude seems to be that everyone whose viewpoint does not align with yours is simply wrong, and that their wrongness must stem from brainwashing of some sort or lack of reason.

no one seriously claims that the ipod is head and shoulders over the rest, or g5s or whatever. we have our reasons for liking them, however, and your endless stream-of-quotes about ipod batteries, ibook motherboard flaws and a million other tangentially related issues is insulting.

 

[Toshi]

for alot of programmers, yea pcs are better because there are more tools for them.

i'm not disagreeing with your general point, but i take issue with this :

i feel that my mac, with all the typical unix tools (gcc, gdb) + xcode is way more capable than an out of the box pc. if i wanted to progam on my windows box at work (and i do) i'd have to buy an environment such as visual studio to get this functionality, and i am unwilling to spend that money.

 

[syadasti]

i'm not disagreeing with your general point, but i take issue with this :

i feel that my mac, with all the typical unix tools (gcc, gdb) + xcode is way more capable than an out of the box pc. if i wanted to progam on my windows box at work (and i do) i'd have to buy an environment such as visual studio to get this functionality, and i am unwilling to spend that money.

ConTEXT is a freeware editor that gets the job done just fine and is free among other various good free/shareware editors. Also there are plenty of flavors of free linux you can use on a PC to get the tools you want - you can just run dual boot if you like the tools enough - I've done that in the past...

 

[Toshi]

ConTEXT is a freeware editor that gets the job done just fine and is free among other various good free/shareware editors. Also there are plenty of flavors of free linux you can use on a PC to get the tools you want - you can just run dual boot if you like the tools enough - I've done that in the past...

oh, i'm sure there are tools out there. and i could probably download some sort of compiler from microsoft if i looked hard enough, or could just grab gcc. but all macs come with the developer tools disc in their packaging, for free. if that's not developer friendly, i don't know what is.

also, i like using the gnu tools more under os x than on linux. the x window system's inconsistency with cut and paste, or its paste buffers or whatever it calls it, is positively maddening.

finally, vi rules the school. just not x11.

 

[MtnBikerNJ]

your resume is impressive. and also irrelevant to MtnBikerNJ's point, which is that your attitude seems to be that everyone whose viewpoint does not align with yours is simply wrong, and that their wrongness must stem from brainwashing of some sort or lack of reason.

no one seriously claims that the ipod is head and shoulders over the rest, or g5s or whatever. we have our reasons for liking them, however, and your endless stream-of-quotes about ipod batteries, ibook motherboard flaws and a million other tangentially related issues is insulting.

bingo. nice to know that SOMEONE is paying attention...

 

[syadasti]

no one seriously claims that the ipod is head and shoulders over the rest, or g5s or whatever. we have our reasons for liking them, however, and your endless stream-of-quotes about ipod batteries, ibook motherboard flaws and a million other tangentially related issues is insulting.

There is no problem with you guys liking them, I've owned Apple products in the past (Apple IIc, Newton owned, all Macs to the G4 in school and work) - they work well. I am not that attached to brands and can get buy with a POS computer from 4-5 years ago (I did for 6 months at my job), or a brand new one. Part of the issue with your attachment to Apple is probably just getting use to a particular style and not necessarily that one thing does X better than the other. People develop habits over time and they don't like to change if they don't have to.

People can use Park Tools, Pedros, Snap-on, Craftsman, Husky, etc, etc... They all get the job done. But when someone comes in asking what the best options are, they need to hear what is available, not some progapanda from Apple marketing. Apple products work well but haven't been cutting edge in awhile. Apple bundles together various newer technologies and integrates them well. They sell a neat, above average package and you pay a price for not having to figure out what that package is on your own...

 

[MtnBikerNJ]

that's kinda funny though, considering you are ALWAYS saying that someone should buy anything else, as long as it isn't the apple product. you also still fail to see that people buy thing for other reasons than what some specs on a website say. I jsut read a whole article the other day (wall street journal) about a new software package made by roxio, for the PC. Basically, its a basic suite of stuff that TRIES to mimic the functions of Apple's iLife suite. The review mentioned, that while it does many of the things iLife can do, it does not do them as simply or elegantly as iLife (itunes, idvd, iphoto, imovie) or is as well integrated. True, it is consumer level software, but it is one of the reasons people prefer a mac over PC, because for all the marketing that apple does, there are reasons beyond what steve jobs tells them to do.

see, if it were all about marketing hype (as you would most likely point out), everyone would own , apple would sell 98% of the worlds computers. But they don't, obviously. so marketing isn't everything you say it is. The ipod isn't #1 in sales because steve jobs markets the crap out of it. It also has TONS to do with the ease of use of the thing (you can't get ease of use and load it with 9 million little infrequently (to the AVERAGE user) items). Yes, I wish the ipod had a few other things, but I'm willing to deal with the trade-offs. One thing I like about the ipod, especially on a mac, is that it is easy to use, I can use it as a hard drive, and I can just plug it in and it does its thing. I don't have to install drivers. I don't have to read a manual on how to operate it. It just works, and for what it does, it does very well. For that, I am willing to pay more money (although, yes, I got it for xmas). One thing with the apple products, is that when I get something from apple, it will generally work in a very elegant way, and I happen to think it looks really cool. even the "easter colors" of the mini (since when did silver become an easter color?).

you are true that people don't like to change once they get used to something. maybe that's why I still use a mac. but i switched from os 9 to os x, which was pretty much like using a different computer. I could have gone to PC, but things just didn't work as well, and i would still be without some of the things that I need to work in the graphics field.

 

[mobius]

Ahhh didn't know about random cd rights i just dl my mp3s from friends, rip cds or buy itms. Never have problems with converting cds to mp3 and such.

 

[MtnBikerNJ]

i usually do that too. but if I now a cd has DRM then I won't buy it, more of a boycott thing than anything> I think if I buy a cd i should be able to do whatever I want with it. But i more often than not buy from ITMS, or trade files with friends (not DL from the net).

 

[syadasti]

ipod and karma owner speaks... the real deal...

The ipod / karma lover affair can be compared to the war between the north and the south or maybe even a relationship of an interracial couple... They have many similarities, yet are quite different. Is one really better than the other... Well, in the case of the ipod / karma comparisons... heck yeah.. but let me break it down into simpler terms and put an end to this issue once and for all:

I commute to work everyday via the NYC subway system. If one wants to get an idea on how big apple's ipod customer base is then please come ride the trains with me. When I first got my ipod 2nd gen model (20 gigger) 1.5 years back it was like a new world opened up to me. You didn't see that many white ear plugs back then... I was one of the elite..the few that shelled out 500 beans for a piece of art and technology intertwined. People looked upon my ear plugs and the attached mirrored remote with envy. I felt truly blessed to own such a fine device - and lets be honest... the ipod is a fine device.

BTW...someone in another post mentioned the ipod looking like an appliance.. actually my wife says it matches our toaster which has a white base and a mirrored metallic body.

Back to the ipod... Like anything in history, the ipod had its 15 minutes (or months) of fame and is now just a stepping stone in the technological world.

Initially, I thought wow.. easy navigation, 20 gigs, great sound (what else to compare it to at the time???), the smallest device of its kind.. lets you store contact info.. play breakout... WOW... no wow.... Its an mp3 player. Its sold and labeled as an mp3 player. Not an organizer or a game system. If I wanted to hold contact info and play games or (game in ipods case) I would carry around my Palm or Windows CE PDA.

Frankly, my cell phone does a good job of holding names and numbers.. 300 of them to be exact. I can synch them to my pc with the data cable. I can scroll through them and DIAL them. What a concept. Apple - any plans to integrate a cell phone in the next model? But without bashing Apple too much let me say this -

Ipods are good devices, albeit quite expensive for what their feature set contains, but good nonetheless - but now, we have a choice.

Every portable DAP today has something to offer everyone. Whether you want a voice recorder or an fm tuner, its all available. To say that the one with the most features is the best is wrong.. to say that if the battery life is the longest its the best is wrong... to say that if its as small as can be is better is wrong.

People have different needs, tastes, and oh yeah.. budgets. If you bought an ipod and love it, ENJOY IT! I loved mine 1.5 years but had an affair with a Karma behind my ipods back. To be honest, I want a divorce from my ipod. My simple goal was this: To carry as much music in as little device as possible with the best sound quality and customization controls.

I need no breakout game nor do I need a contact manager... I dont care if the scroll wheel has no moving parts or the case is remarkably shiny. I don't care if I'm no longer in the 'white earbud' club on the subway - cause frankly, those buds got no play on my Koss 35s. And most importantly, I dont give a sh!t if its works with Macs and Windows machines because I'll never buy a Mac, no professional office environment uses Macs in the business world. I'm not a designer from SOHO so I don't stare at Macs all day.

With the 10 gig ipods and now mini 4 gig ipods out there, I no longer feel 'elite' or special to be carrying around my ipod since everyone can afford some version of the 'white earbud' membership club.

Technology has changed and I have as well. I know what I want and need in a DAP and am glad the choices are out there. I can best summarize my thoughts like this:

People are different. We like choice. What works for you may not be what someone else is looking for. Instead of comparing DAPs as ipod killers, why not compare by full feature set, size, audio quality, etc. Don't tell me the ipod looks better than a Karma cause I dont care and maybe it does, but this isnt a wet t shirt contest... We are actually interested in the 'brains' vs. the 'looks'. Did you hear the audio quality of the Karma? No.. well keep staring at your reflection in the back of ipod. You don't know the true purpose of a DAP.

oh, as for my membership in the 'white earbud' club... I quit.

 

[syadasti]

that's kinda funny though, considering you are ALWAYS saying that someone should buy anything else, as long as it isn't the apple product. you also still fail to see that people buy thing for other reasons than what some specs on a website say.

I bought my Rio Karma in November - there was maybe 1 PREVIEW at the time if any. I bought my Rio player cause the 2 Rio CD MP3Players I had before them both worked really well, not because of what someone said. Besides that, websites (like the Tech-Report) get to use all the various items out there - they get evaluation products - on loan or to keep. Their scope of knowledge on the products out there is far better than some user who has owned one brand and maybe looked at one in the product packaging for others in the store...

The owner of DAPreview owns over a dozen mp3players. He went out to brick and mortar Best Buy and bought one at his own expense just like anyone else - he owns all the other popular DAPs, but the Rio is his favorite. That says a lot about its performance.

see, if it were all about marketing hype (as you would most likely point out), everyone would own , apple would sell 98% of the worlds computers.

Exactly, most of the world sees through it, but a few Mac vocal loyalists don't.

One thing I like about the ipod, especially on a mac, is that it is easy to use, I can use it as a hard drive, and I can just plug it in and it does its thing. I don't have to install drivers. I don't have to read a manual on how to operate it. It just works, and for what it does, it does very well.

Yes, my first HDD player did that - it had USB mass storage support - no drivers needed, no sync software, etc... They work that way because of FAT - works OK for computers, but for battery powered devices which could be shocked a lot (either by bumping or the battery dying while the HDD is doing something), a journaled file system is superior for keeping your music collection safe. Rio understands the merits of both now due to user feedback and are releasing a free optional upgrade to FAT if mass storage support is imporant to the particular user's needed. The Rio has the easy of use with Journal File System out of the box though - plug it in to any network with DHCP (any cheap consumer internet routers), type in the address for the Rio Karma in your browser and you can transfer files through their java web interface on any computer with java support.

 

[Jeremy R]

ipod and karma owner speaks... the real deal...

OMG, that douchebag just compared the civil war and interacial dating
to picking out a silly little "walkman" that girls use at the gym.
Yeah, taking a musketball in the temple, or getting harassed while doing simple things like going to a movie, is the same as picking out a music player.

Man, I have read some dumb azz arguments on the net over the years, but this one takes the taco. Its like 5th grade meets adult superdorks.
Buy whichever one is on sale, download some songs, bob your head, ride your bike. Jeez.
I got 99 problems but my MP3 player ain't one. Hit me! :dancing:

 

[syadasti]

OMG, that douchebag just compared the civil war and interacial dating
to picking out a silly little "walkman" that girls use at the gym.
Yeah, taking a musketball in the temple, or getting harassed while doing simple things like going to a movie, is the same as picking out a music player.

I didn't write any of it (including the title), I just thought it was funny

 

[Jeremy R]

I didn't write any of it (including the title), I just thought it was funny

Oh, I know.
I did not get a big fancy edumacation, but I did recognize that is was "quoted."