[worship_mud]

... in full swing!

A man riding bareheaded on one of about 550 motorcycles in an anti-helmet law rally lost control of his cycle, went over his handlebars, hit his head on the pavement and died, police said Sunday.

The motorcyclist, 55-year-old Philip A. Contos, likely would have survived the accident if he'd been wearing a helmet, state troopers said.

 

[Pesqueeb]

In other news: Irony still not dead.

 

[syadasti]

In other news: Irony still not dead.

This death is not ironic. Alanis Morissette pseudo-ironic, perhaps, but not ironic

 

[eaterofdog]

This death is not ironic. Alanis Morissette pseudo-ironic, perhaps, but not ironic

Is this not situational irony? His intended effect was to reduce helmet laws. But due to his crash and death, he is now a poster child for helmet laws.

 

[syadasti]

His death is expected, that is why helmets are mandated. Misguided intentions can't change reality/the laws of physics.

 

[eaterofdog]

Are you the center of universe? LOL

 

[syadasti]

Are you the center of universe? LOL

His death is unfortunate (at least for some) but expected. It isn't ironic, just like that crappy song. Its not that hard to grasp. None of these situations are ironic either:

A traffic jam when you’re already late
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It’s like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It’s meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife
And isn’t it ironic… don’t you think?

 

[eaterofdog]

Yes Sys. Your viewpoint is the only viewpoint. It's better that way.

 

[syadasti]

Yes Sys. Your viewpoint is the only viewpoint. It's better that way.

Its not my viewpoint, when you crash a motorcycle without a helmet, your chances of severe or fatal injury are higher. Its not irony, the experts agree:

: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity

an outcome that turns out to be very different from what was expected, the difference between what is expected to happen and what actually does

The motorcyclist, 55-year-old Philip A. Contos, likely would have survived the accident if he'd been wearing a helmet, state troopers said.

A helmet that meets federal standards reduces the wearer's chances of being killed in an accident by more than 40 percent, said safety consultant Jim Hedlund, of the Governors Highway Safety Association.

 

[jdcamb]

I never liked that song anyways. I only like oral sex while riding my Motorcycle with out a helmet, almost never in a crowded movie theater. I go by the Pee Wee Herman rule, never rock out with your cock out in a public place no matter how majestic it is. Hell even Pee Wee wears a helmet while ridiing that super pimped out bike of his.... Sydasti your wrong for no ther reason then I said so... So there tough guy.....

 

[eaterofdog]

Can't tell if he's trolling or hung over.

 

[jdcamb]

Can't tell if he's trolling or hung over.

Trolling. I don't drink....

 

[Pesqueeb]

Can't tell if he's trolling or hung over.

Maybe just incapable of humor?

 

[eaterofdog]

Trolling. I don't drink....

I mean the person prior to you. You are wearing a large neon sign with fog horns going off that says "troll"

 

[jdcamb]

I mean the person prior to you. You are wearing a large neon sign with fog horns going off that says "troll"

I bought mine at Target. I was surprised to see them there for so cheap. I got the T-shirt too.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I bought mine at Target. I was surprised to see them there for so cheap. I got the T-shirt too.

LLORT: laughing loudly over rude troll?

 

[MMike]

I bought mine at Target. I was surprised to see them there for so cheap. I got the T-shirt too.

They are so cheap because those horns are made in malaysian sweat shops by children.

Damn you for supporting "Blood Troll Fog Horns"

 

[eaterofdog]

Blood Troll Fog Horns

Band name alert

 

[jdcamb]

They are so cheap because those horns are made in malaysian sweat shops by children.

Damn you for supporting "Blood Troll Fog Horns"

Hecho en México douchebag!

 

[valve bouncer]

Would it have been ironic if he'd crashed into Alanis Morisetter on a Vespa while she was on her way to a pro-helmet rally and her helmeted head crushed his thorax while leaving his head intact so his corneas could be donated to a bigoted blind black man?

 

[X3pilot]

Tag is a winner!

 

[I Are Baboon]

Tag is a winner!

Agreed.

 

[Westy]

Would it have been ironic if he'd crashed into Alanis Morisetter on a Vespa while she was on her way to a pro-helmet rally and her helmeted head crushed his thorax while leaving his head intact so his corneas could be donated to a bigoted blind black man?

Only if the bogoted blind black man was bigoted against naturally sighted Canadian Pro-helmet Pop singers.

 

[Ciaran]

Tag is a winner!

Absolutely. Whoever put it up there, to you

 

[MikeD]

His death is unfortunate (at least for some) but expected. It isn't ironic, just like that crappy song. Its not that hard to grasp. None of these situations are ironic either:

Actually, the fact that we (the onlookers) expect his death while he rides merrily and unsuspectingly off to meet it is precisely what makes his death an example of situational irony.

(Assuming you put us in the place of the audience in a drama, which is kind of necessary to even discuss it in the first place.)

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

This thread educated me in the art of being stupid. Is that ironic?

 

[rockofullr]

Actually, the fact that we (the onlookers) expect his death while he rides merrily and unsuspectingly off to meet it is precisely what makes his death an example of situational irony.

(Assuming you put us in the place of the audience in a drama, which is kind of necessary to even discuss it in the first place.)

Indeed...

From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Other types of irony:

Comic irony: Irony that is humorous (whereas much irony is not)

Dramatic irony: When the audience (or reader) knows a fictional character is making a mistake, because the audience has more information than the character.

Tragic irony: A type of dramatic irony. In tragic irony, a character's actions lead to consequences that are both tragic, and contrary to the character's desire and intentions.

Historical irony: A kind of situational irony that takes a long period of years for the irony to become evident.

Socratic irony: When a person asks questions, pretending not to understand, to lure the interlocutor into a logical trap. (Socrates, in Plato's dialogues, was a master of this technique.)

I would say that tragic irony fits best here. Although, as MikeD points out, irony is a literary/verbal device and can only be loosely fitted to an actual event.

 

[syadasti]

Actually, the fact that we (the onlookers) expect his death while he rides merrily and unsuspectingly off to meet it is precisely what makes his death an example of situational irony.

(Assuming you put us in the place of the audience in a drama, which is kind of necessary to even discuss it in the first place.)

Nope, it happened as normal/most probable. That is precisely makes it unfortunate, not ironic. Its not tragic irony either because most people who don't want to use safety equipment don't argue against whether or not it works, they argue against giving up personal freedom (selfishly since society must also pay for their stupidity - its not that simple), etc...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/situational+irony

an outcome that turns out to be very different from what was expected, the difference between what is expected to happen and what actually does

 

[dante]

Nope, it happened as normal/most probable. That is precisely makes it unfortunate, not ironic. Its not tragic irony either because this isn't literature and most people who don't want to use safety equipment don't argue against whether or not it works, they argue against giving up personal freedom, etc...

The problem is that only *you* saw it as normal/most probable. I'm almost certain that Mr. No-helmet-guy went on this protest ride to show that it was possible to ride a motorcycle without a helmet and not die.

 

[syadasti]

The problem is that only *you* saw it as normal/most probable. I'm almost certain that Mr. No-helmet-guy went on this protest ride to show that it was possible to ride a motorcycle without a helmet and not die.

Since this is not literature, neither of us can know his personal viewpoint unless he specifically stated them before the incident. If we do suppose though, most people understand a helmet or other safety equipment has some functional merit regardless of whether or not they use them.

Safety helmets have a proven record both in the real world and the lab - as I mentioned, the experts agree. There is no problem, the facts all point to this as the most probable outcome.

 

[rockofullr]

Since this is not literature, neither of us can know his personal viewpoint unless he specifically stated them before the incident. If we do suppose though, most people understand a helmet or other safety equipment has some functional merit regardless of whether or not they use them.

Safety helmets have a proven record both in the real world and the lab - as I mentioned, the experts agree. There is no problem, the facts all point to this as the most probable outcome.

Dude, read the posts. Irony is a literary/verbal device and can not be applied directly to IRL (although it can be used in conversation). So either events IRL can not technically be ironic evar or just admit that guy dying of no helmet at a rally promoting no helmet is dramatic/tragic irony.

BTW I can not know for sure but I'm pretty certain that his viewpoint was not "hey if I go to this ride without a helmet I will hit my head and die".

at this argument, but hey, anything to stay awake after a late night of drinking.

 

[stevew]

you are arguing with syadasti....

 

[dante]

Since this is not literature, neither of us can know his personal viewpoint unless he specifically stated them before the incident. If we do suppose though, most people understand a helmet or other safety equipment has some functional merit regardless of whether or not they use them.

Safety helmets have a proven record both in the real world and the lab - as I mentioned, the experts agree. There is no problem, the facts all point to this as the most probable outcome.

I've encountered an anti-(bike)helmet nazi on my blog, and started doing some research on it. There are some seriously F'd up people out there claiming that bicycle helmets actually *cause* more injuries due to an inflated sense of security and lack of respect from drivers (and pushing time-trend analysis where direct causation can not be determined). Just peruse www.cyclehelmets.org for a head-shaking look into some seriously screwed-up ideology...

(Here's the blog post that started as a nice fluffy little bit about how great Bicycle Benefits are, and it spiraled out of control with the first post if you're interested)

 

[syadasti]

I've encountered an anti-(bike)helmet nazi on my blog, and started doing some research on it. There are some seriously F'd up people out there claiming that bicycle helmets actually *cause* more injuries due to an inflated sense of security and lack of respect from drivers (and pushing time-trend analysis where direct causation can not be determined). Just peruse www.cyclehelmets.org for a head-shaking look into some seriously screwed-up ideology...

(Here's the blog post that started as a nice fluffy little bit about how great Bicycle Benefits are, and it spiraled out of control with the first post if you're interested)

There is always a spectrum of intelligence, but that doesn't change what happens in the lab and on the street - experts and facts count - misguided opinions don't.

Companies that make faulty safety equipment will be sued and bad PR'ed to death.

 

[syadasti]

BTW I can not know for sure but I'm pretty certain that his viewpoint was not "hey if I go to this ride without a helmet I will hit my head and die".

What matters is his viewpoint on helmet safety benefits in crashes which we don't know.

 

[dante]

What matters is his viewpoint on helmet safety benefits in crashes which we don't know...

...but which we can reasonably surmise judging from the fact that he was at an anti-helmet-law-rally and wasn't wearing a helmet. From the AbateNY's website:

Because the possibility of death or injury as a result of helmet use exits, ABATE of New York Inc. believes the individual rider is best suited to weigh the benefits and risks associated with that use. The amount of risk one accepts in
any activity is a matter of informed personal choice.

The group is fighting for the right *not* to wear a helmet and to leave it up to the individual rider. The individual rider in question chose to not wear a helmet as part of the protest. If you're trying to claim that he was fighting for the right to not have to wear a helmet, but would have voluntarily if there was no law......... well, that's a stretch of N8ian proportions.

 

[syadasti]

Because the possibility of death or injury as a result of helmet use exits, ABATE of New York Inc. believes the individual rider is best suited to weigh the benefits and risks associated with that use. The amount of risk one accepts in
any activity is a matter of informed personal choice.

The group is fighting for the right *not* to wear a helmet and to leave it up to the individual rider. The individual rider in question chose to not wear a helmet as part of the protest.

They know the benefits/risks. They know the probable outcome if they crash without a helmet - risk of serious injury/death is higher. I specified this above, did you not read my posts

most people who don't want to use safety equipment don't argue against whether or not it works, they argue against giving up personal freedom (selfishly since society must also pay for their stupidity - its not that simple), etc...

If we do suppose though, most people understand a helmet or other safety equipment has some functional merit regardless of whether or not they use them.

 

[rockofullr]

What matters is his viewpoint on helmet safety benefits in crashes which we don't know.

He clearly thought it was safe enough.

 

[sanjuro]

Not to change the subject...

From a regular poster on another forum:

"I took part in this ride, and was only a couple rows behind the guy. For the record, I did have my lid on. I don't like the law, but tickets are not my idea of a good time either. I'd say the riders were evenly split between those of us who had helmets on and those who didn't.

Evidently, his shoe came untied and was getting caught in his sprocket. He looked down to see what was happening; when he looked up he was closing way too fast on the riders in front of him. He panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake.

I'm not going to argue that a helmet would have saved his life, no one knows that for sure. I do know that the cause of death was a broken neck, not a head injury.

Lessons I learned from this ride:
1 - Parade rides suck (I've known this, it just reinforced my belief) Too many riders in too small of a space. Paying attention is a must, this guy wasn't.
2 - Riding boots don't have laces that can come untied and get caught in sprockets
3 - The MSF course teaches you how to handle the situation, he obviously didn't take it. Like I said, I wasn't far from him, I saw it happen. He had room to stop had he known how.
4 - Always get to sign up for parade rides early so you can be in the front of the pack.

Flame away. I'm used to it by now."

http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.aspx?f=17&m=513253

 

[Toshi]

Closely related: http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Seat Belted

Claim: Anti-seat belt law advocate is killed in automobile accident.

TRUE
…
In this vein, we note with a sense of both sadness and irony a couple of articles recently called to our attention. The first is a 17 September 2004 editorial published in the Daily Nebraskan and entitled "Individual Rights Buckle Under Seat Belt Laws," by Derek Kieper, a 21-year-old senior at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, in which the writer inveighed against mandatory seat belt laws, opining that "Uncle Sam is not here to regulate every facet of life no matter the consequences," and that "Democrats and Republicans alike should stand together to stop these laws that are incongruous with the ideals of both parties." In the midst of his editorial he noted:

As laws become increasingly strict for seat belts, fewer people will respond positively by buckling up in response to the laws. There seems to be a die-hard group of non-wearers out there who simply do not wish to buckle up no matter what the government does. I belong to this group.

Evidently his words were far more prescient than any of us might have wanted, as an article in the 4 January 2005 Lincoln Journal Star reported that Mr. Kieper not only died in a car crash, but the tragic mishap that claimed his life was the very type of accident in which seat belts have proved so effective in saving lives by preventing passengers from being ejected from vehicles:

Derek Kieper was a smart, funny, intense young man who relished a good debate and would do anything for his friends.

Kieper, a 21-year-old senior at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, died early Tuesday morning when the Ford Explorer he was a passenger in traveled off an icy section of Interstate 80 and rolled several times in a ditch. Kieper, who was riding in the back seat of the Explorer, was ejected from the vehicle.

Two others in the vehicle, including the driver, Luke Havermann of Ogallala, and the front-seat passenger, Nick Uphoff of Randolph Air Force Base in Texas, sustained non-life threatening injuries. Havermann and Uphoff, both 21, were being treated at BryanLGH Medical Center West.

Derek, who was thrown from the vehicle, was not wearing a seat belt, [Capt. Joe Lefler of the Lancaster County Sheriff's Office] said. He said Havermann and Uphoff were wearing seat belts at the time.

IBsyadastimakesanotherpedanticrantaboutirony