[Old_Sckool]

Listen, you'll get plenty of practice and plenty of time on your bike. In fact by the end of Monday, I bet you won't want to ride your bike for at least another week.

LOL. Truer words, never spoken.

I did Angel Fire for the first time in 2006. Fresh out from California, where I "thought" we had some gnarly trails. Boy was I surprised. I couldn't believe people actually rode the kinda stuff at AF, let alone raced down it. By race day I had not made it down the entire course a single time without stopping to take at least one break for a rest.

On my race run, I completely lost my chain 1 minute into my run. Somehow I managed to pull off a third place finish and officially made my first complete run without stopping. I'm pretty sure losing my chain resulted in a faster time, because I was forced to keep my momentum up.

After that race, I HATED AF and did NOT look forward to it in 2007. But things went much better in 07 and now I love it. My favorite course of the MSC series.

 

[Fonzie18]

Dang.

I personally think there should be more practice. Take into consideration that people have mechanicals, change suspension settings, tires, stop and watch people through sections...2 hours is extremely limited. At world cups there is at least 4 hours every day for these reasons...I know, this is not a world cup, yaddah yaddah but I think most races, especially this one that carries UCI points (and is a qualifier for worlds) should definitely have more practice time.

I don't think there is a huge problem mixing the Pros and Cat 1 racers on course...how are these cat 1 guys to progress when they are riding the same course as the cat 2/cat3 people? As far as traffic on the course...If you are in control, there is no reason why you can't stop/avoid slower/stopped traffic. There is traffic at the world cup level as well and those guys are going faster than you and I, trust me.

The $15 lift ticket is a great deal for people who finish their practice and want to go shred the rest of the mountain. However, this is a race, and most people will want to be focusing on riding the RACE course.


See you all up there.

 

[funkendrenchman]

Yeah, I am also here to say that this 2 hour practice is total crap. Talk about giving the locals an advantage! You mean to tell me that I am going to drive 16 hours from Salt Lake City and only get two hours of course time per day...LAME. Let me guess, next thing you are going to tell me is that I have to purchase a USAC pro license for some un-godly amount of money, then charge me $70 to race. (oh yeah, then I have to buy a lift ticket.)

Will someone please hit me in the head with my $1500 new Boxxer to pull me out of this dream I am in? This is rediculous!

Sweet blog!

 

[bpatterson6]

Riders attending the 2009 MSC Chile Challenge.

DO NOT forget to PRE-REGISTER before online registration closes or you'll be paying a fee to register on-site. ...just sayin'

http://www.racemsc.com/events/chilechallenge.html

"ON-SITE REGISTRATION: If you don't pre-register online or mail/fax in a form, you can still register on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. $15 on-site registration fee applies to registration on Friday and a $20 registration fee applies to registration on Saturday/Sunday. Registration/check-in for your wave will close two hours prior to it's designated start time. Please check schedule for details. This includes pre-registered riders. No exceptions."

I wish I could goto Angel Fire this year but unfortnuately I have other plans with the
little woman. I know it will be alot of fun!

 

[ridingsupreme]

if u can't handle more than 2 hours of riding then you need to start training more homie. :biggrin: being from so cal should be an advantage. all our runs here in sb are 13+ minutes. so 6 min is no problem. although with the elevation difference I'd have to say the amount of energy used per run is probably pretty similar. Still I can ride whistler all day long (10am to 8pm) so why not little angle fire for a mere say.. 6 hours?

Like the others have said, 2 hours practice is not enough, plain and simple.
and whoever said I wouldn't want to ride my bike for a week after racing and riding af... bro, I could race 4X, SD, and DH and still go freeride the next week just for fun. lol I love riding my bike 24-7. I only ride mountain bikes, this BS about needed other sports to keep from getting bored is just pathetic to be honest.

lift probably takes at least 20 min to go up (not including UN-godly queue lines) plus 5-15min to come down so with 2 hours of practice that gives me time to do about... 3 runs? oh ya then if I have a mechanical thats minus another 30-40 min.. what if I want a water/cliff bar break? do you see where i'm coming from?

So in conclusion you race officials PLEASE make more practice time! Let the riders decide how much practice is necessary and what not rather than be limited to a small time frame. The thing that makes you MSC guys way better than ANY other race promoter or event holder is the fact that you guys ride, you listen to riders, and you understand both perspectives. Not to say that you won't still be holding the best races in all of America if you don't extend practice. I'm just saying that many people will be disappointed.

I hope I don't come off like a d*** or anything I'm just trying to explain my perspective a bit. when it comes down to it its all good but i'm sure we can all agree that too much practice/riding is better than not enough.

 

[funkendrenchman]

So 6+ hours on one run isn't enough time to figure out your lines?

 

[braaaap]

What can I say....I am a slow learner. In all honesty, I think the two hours is just too little. Look...we are all out to just have a good time, and when you put a tight schedule and limited time constraints on us, the fun get's lost in the rush of trying to get those key runs in. Waiting in line, riding the lift and scoping lines doesn't allow much saddle time.

Let us take our time, walk a few sections, run several line choices and basically just have fun with our friends.

 

[wicked cool]

My thoughts. Two hours A DAY is not enough practice. Six hours total sounds good, but if you flat, want to change your set-up, have a mech issue, need a snack, etc.. You are not only wasting those minutes but you could be missing the entire practice session for that day (think about travel time to the pits and back, lift lines, time on lift.. etc). Those two hour daily practices will definitely turn into one practice run days for a lot of racers. And that just doesn't cut it.

 

[WhiteRavenKS]

all day practice blows for media people. a couple hours a day spread out for the long weekend could actually be pretty good for the folks holding cameras out on course. maybe it's still a little tight to get the coverage needed with two hours on such a long course per day but i would take that any time over ALL DAY snoozefests.

i dont want to be an ass but i'm just throwing another perspective in the mix. sitting there all day waiting for your target riders to roll by is ridiculously frustrating. Mixed pro/ex practice is tough on that too. It's really difficult to get the shots you need when some expert drags brake through a section, throws tons of dust in the air, and then the pro you need to cover comes plowing up through the plume of dust and you lose the shot. pro only practice is really appreciated. im not saying it should be all pro only but an hour of pro only a day would be nice, much like top 80 only time at world cups- that really helps the media side of things. in the long run, more media at events is a great thing. it makes the sport more marketable and helps get us all more exposure.

i think racer needs should be top priority but catering to the media side of things can be helpful as well.

 

[WhiteRavenKS]

by the way, im not saying that MSC is catering to lazy media people's demands. i'm just putting it out there that there are other angles to see this through.

 

[funkendrenchman]

Slightly off topic.... but does anyone have a 30.0mm SDG I-beam seatpost you could sell me at the event? I'll include a sixer. PM me.

 

[CRoss]

The more I read threads as a race approaches the less I regret not having a bike and going racing. Race promoters are doing a great job at not getting my interest back into spending my weekend at their events.

 

[Alloy]

So 6+ hours on one run isn't enough time to figure out your lines?

It's not. 2 hour practice puts more pressure on all the racers who are serious about really trying to learn the course and compete.

Plus I don't know about you guys, but practicing, hanging out, and finding the good lines with friends is one of the best parts about racing. When practice is only 2 to 3 hours everyone is too caught up trying to squeeze every possible run in to relax and enjoy it.

It really changes the whole dynamic of coming to race, it puts a sense of urgency on everything you're doing for the weekend. All the sudden you're whole schedule revolves around getting to the course and stressing out you're not going to learn the lines.

Also you get more people on the course at once... When practice is only 2 hours everyone rushes to the course at the same time. When practice is 10 hours, people realize they don't have to rush and they'll show up at different hours during the day. Fontana has a ton of racers, you can always find some hours in the day when the course is not crowded.

Not to mention the mechanical issues as stated above. Plus doing an easy warm up run on the mountain, Plus the time the lift takes, plus waiting in line (and seeing more people cut, because now they're rushed) ...none of this stuff matters when practice is all day.

The media argument is kind of ridiculous... you're basically saying racers should not get long practice because I don't want to stand their all day and take pictures. That's pathetic.

 

[WhiteRavenKS]

okay reading comprehension, did you not read when i said "i think racer needs should be top priority but catering to the media side of things can be helpful as well."

no where did i say "racers should not get long practice because I don't want to stand their all day and take pictures" but now that you mention it, yes. I don't want to stand out there all day waiting for people to do runs every two hours. read: two hours a day might be too little but all day practice is a "solution" that brings up plenty of other problems of its own.

try stuff on day one, walk the course later that day, re-try stuff day two, re-walk course, be ready for race day.

way to boil down everything i said and take what you wanted to hear out of it though, good job on that. be that efficient with your 2 hours of practice and you'll have the course dialed in time for race day no sweat.

 

[Old_Sckool]

if u can't handle more than 2 hours of riding then you need to start training more homie. :biggrin: being from so cal should be an advantage. all our runs here in sb are 13+ minutes. so 6 min is no problem. although with the elevation difference I'd have to say the amount of energy used per run is probably pretty similar. Still I can ride whistler all day long (10am to 8pm) so why not little angle fire for a mere say.. 6 hours?

First off, I'm not gonna argue that more practice wouldn't be nice. But it is what it is and really no different than last year or the year before that.

No way to do an all day anyway, at least for the amateurs. Cat 1 gets the course to themselves. Cat 2 and 3 have to share. So at best you're gonna get 4-5 hours each. Certainly better then 2-3, but oh well. I know that there are other factors in the decision, that vary from year to year. I remember one year the XC course crossed part of the DH so that had to be accounted for. If they go back to a single course mixing pro/expert and beg/sport (like virtually all prior years). You still are not gonna get an all day practice, unless all 4 cat's are sharing the course. And frankly, that would suck way more then 2-3 hour practice times.

As far as walking the lines. Cat 2-3 can walk and watch lines all they want while the experts are running. Experts get stuck watching Cat 2-3 pick lines Doesn't do any good to watch the pro's, since they're on a different course this year. My understanding is they're getting their own course this time because it is a UCI event. They normally share the same course in all Cat's. In prior years they just ribboned off the gnarly stuff for beg/sport.

As far as getting in better shape. I am almost 50. Racing Cat 1. Overall Norba points leader in 2007 (while in Sport), MSC DH points leader in 07. I have podium'd at the G3 Open Race where I had 3 decades on the next oldest on the podium. Only did one race in 08 (Angel Fire, 1st place with a fractured collar bone). If you're still shredding DH when you're my age, then you can come talk smack about the shape I'm in. Until then, show some respect:biggrin:

As far as California. I lived there for 44 years and have ridden all over it. I now live in Colorado. We have 1000 of miles of AM trails out here that are MUCH tougher then most of the DH runs in California. As far as Santa Barbara,there is nothing there that I could not ride full tilt on my RFX, no DH bike needed. I have 15 mile long DH runs within 45 minutes of my front door. I have done the "Whole Enchilada" in Moab (around 37 miles of mostly DH (Porcupine Rim is good part of it), descending thru something like 3 climate zones). Sorry, but a 6-7 minute run down Angel Fire at RACE SPEED, is tougher in it's own way. As far as comparing your 13 minute DH run in Santa Barbara to AF??? Lets see???? World Cup DH course or 13 minute all mountain trail in SB, which is tougher???? I'm gonna go with AF.

 

[Pbody]

The practice schedule does suck, and I keep trying to figure out why there is limited practice. If the lifts are going to be open, the trails are open, why not the race courses? It's not like there will be course marshalls out there blowing whistles, so there's no labor/manpower issue. Blasphemy!

 

[downhillracer]

Sorry dude, but as a Pro, I don't want to be sharing practice with non pro's. The only time I've ever been injured at a dh race was by coming up on someone who couldn't get up on time and forcing me off course. No offense but mixed pro practice is not ok.

the same thing could happen when cat1s practice with cat3s. at least cat 1 and pros are closer than cat1s and cat3s.

 

[Beast]

way to boil down everything i said and take what you wanted to hear out of it though, good job on that. be that efficient with your 2 hours of practice and you'll have the course dialed in time for race day no sweat.

Excuse me sir. Do you have any pics of #53897?

 

[Mike Buell]

3 hrs of practice is a good amount, 2 hrs is definitely limited. With three you can take a couple runs, make some changes take a quick break, then take a few more runs, makes for a good day of practice. With 2 hrs. you pretty much just have to ride strait through our your gonna feel like you don't get enough. 2 hrs. doesn't leave any time to make adjustments, repairs etc.

Lift takes 16 min.
I hope they let us load at 7:40 for 8:00 practice.

 

[Mike Buell]

Also if anyone out there is listening, it would be rad if the lift was open Friday morning for walking inspection, prior to the 12:00 registration.

 

[Dylan Dean]

good ideas for both sides.. it'll definitely be hard for the event promoter to set up, but we'll be having a discussion this weekend in Angel Fire regarding the 2010 Pro GRT.. these are definitely some issues that i will be discussing (if not here, then soon after). Whether or not the promoters can comply, but there are many things that i want to change & "require" for 2010. Anyone (media, industry, & pro racer) wanting to attend the meeting... which will most likely be one evening, hit me up at the race. i'll be in the dean/nema tent... or on track (riding/shooting). i'd like to get input from all sides!

 

[Dylan Dean]

oh ya... schedule sucks for me too! since i am/was planning on racing & shooting

pro dh practice conflicts w/ at 1 dh - i'm boned!
i might see if i can ride during cat 2/3 practice... but that's during pro 4x practice!

CRAP! can i have my own practice schedule!?!?!

 

[ridingsupreme]

First off, I'm not gonna argue that more practice wouldn't be nice. But it is what it is and really no different than last year or the year before that.

No way to do an all day anyway, at least for the amateurs. Cat 1 gets the course to themselves. Cat 2 and 3 have to share. So at best you're gonna get 4-5 hours each. Certainly better then 2-3, but oh well. I know that there are other factors in the decision, that vary from year to year. I remember one year the XC course crossed part of the DH so that had to be accounted for. If they go back to a single course mixing pro/expert and beg/sport (like virtually all prior years). You still are not gonna get an all day practice, unless all 4 cat's are sharing the course. And frankly, that would suck way more then 2-3 hour practice times.

As far as walking the lines. Cat 2-3 can walk and watch lines all they want while the experts are running. Experts get stuck watching Cat 2-3 pick lines Doesn't do any good to watch the pro's, since they're on a different course this year. My understanding is they're getting their own course this time because it is a UCI event. They normally share the same course in all Cat's. In prior years they just ribboned off the gnarly stuff for beg/sport.

As far as getting in better shape. I am almost 50. Racing Cat 1. Overall Norba points leader in 2007 (while in Sport), MSC DH points leader in 07. I have podium'd at the G3 Open Race where I had 3 decades on the next oldest on the podium. Only did one race in 08 (Angel Fire, 1st place with a fractured collar bone). If you're still shredding DH when you're my age, then you can come talk smack about the shape I'm in. Until then, show some respect:biggrin:

As far as California. I lived there for 44 years and have ridden all over it. I now live in Colorado. We have 1000 of miles of AM trails out here that are MUCH tougher then most of the DH runs in California. As far as Santa Barbara,there is nothing there that I could not ride full tilt on my RFX, no DH bike needed. I have 15 mile long DH runs within 45 minutes of my front door. I have done the "Whole Enchilada" in Moab (around 37 miles of mostly DH (Porcupine Rim is good part of it), descending thru something like 3 climate zones). Sorry, but a 6-7 minute run down Angel Fire at RACE SPEED, is tougher in it's own way. As far as comparing your 13 minute DH run in Santa Barbara to AF??? Lets see???? World Cup DH course or 13 minute all mountain trail in SB, which is tougher???? I'm gonna go with AF.

I apologize for the lack of respect after all it is the internet! keyboard courage gets um every time! (that goes for many others out there as well)

As far as rocking DH trails with AM bikes... I'm sure I could ride a WC course of any kind with a AM bike, I could ride the knarlist steepest technical trail you've never seen (nor I lol) on a AM bike.. would it be a pleasurable experience? probably not, i doubt my body or the bike would hold up to such abuse for long but as far as possibilitys.. ya it can be done. don't believe me i'd love to show you sometime. however I don't own a AM bike so it'll be a loaner to be abused. hell one of my good friends rode his HARDTAIL down the trail with little incident other than the fact that I had to wait like 30 min for him and that his arms and legs hurt a lot after wards lol
I raced af in 2007 and in 2008. and believe me af isn't that much knarlier just that its a different type of riding in a small sense and if anything easier because the stakes are lower for failure. Tunnel has cliffs, af has trees.. I love um both but if you think tunnel is easily done in any sense you obviously haven't ridden it in at least a decade. I've only ridden it for about 5 years but those who have ridden it in years past tell me how much its changed.
(trail recently burned down in jesusita fire.)
btw 13 min's is the record time not average. most people do it in 20 and if your fast and have ridden it a couple times 17. and if your a local and average run is about 14 1/2 min
i'd rather keep all the beat necks out and keep the trails for us locals anyway. In plain English...
don't talk smack about our trails PERIOD.
all seriousness aside its all good
lets just ride!

anyways the subject at hand..
I'm bitching about the lack of practice because it is rumored that the course is "knarly" and all new or some bull i keep hearing these bustas tell me.. I'll see it when i see it, i ain't tripping whatever they want to throw at me i'll ride lol.

I don't need more than 3 runs a day but it would sure be a lot more fun to be laid back about it rather than rushing and stuff.. then I can kick it with my friends instead of rushing and it would just make life so much easier.

RACE PROMOTERS PLEASE EXTEND PRACTICE!

 

[PatBranch]

I'm racing cat 2 (if I race depending on how my ankle is...) and shooting Pro DH. If the Pro DH race is even happening by the time I finish my race run... I'll have to go down, leave my bike at the condo, get my stuff and run up the hill to shoot the last few riders. If they weren't at the same time, there would be more spectators.

I would prefer at least 3hours for practice, as a racer and media.

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

I wish I was going so I could complain about the practice schedule, too!

 

[Alloy]

okay reading comprehension, did you not read when i said "i think racer needs should be top priority but catering to the media side of things can be helpful as well."

no where did i say "racers should not get long practice because I don't want to stand their all day and take pictures" but now that you mention it, yes. I don't want to stand out there all day waiting for people to do runs every two hours. read: two hours a day might be too little but all day practice is a "solution" that brings up plenty of other problems of its own.

try stuff on day one, walk the course later that day, re-try stuff day two, re-walk course, be ready for race day.

way to boil down everything i said and take what you wanted to hear out of it though, good job on that. be that efficient with your 2 hours of practice and you'll have the course dialed in time for race day no sweat.

Sorry that was an asshole comment. I see what you mean now after rereading your post.

 

[Old_Sckool]

I raced af in 2007 and in 2008. and believe me af isn't that much knarlier just that its a different type of riding in a small sense and if anything easier because the stakes are lower for failure. Tunnel has cliffs, af has trees.. I love um both but if you think tunnel is easily done in any sense you obviously haven't ridden it in at least a decade. I've only ridden it for about 5 years but those who have ridden it in years past tell me how much its changed.

Now see. I never mentioned Tunnel. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you really had some scary stuff you were riding up there in SB.

You SB guys are always holding up Tunnel as the pinnacle of gnar. Yeah, it's a brutal. jackhammer ride. I regard most of it as unpleasant with a few fun sections. There is nothing in it super techy. I could have the average intermediate rider hitting the entire thing competently after 1 run.

I wouldn't want to do it on a hardtail, but you definitely do NOT need a DH bike to run it and in no way would you be out gunned on a 6" trail bike. My youngest son was ripping that trail at 9 years old, I kid you not.

I haven't ridden it in about 8 years, so I'll take you at your word that it is now super GNARCORE. But anything short of a landslide, I doubt its much different.

Anyway, I'm just messin' with you. I love giving you SB guys $hit. Some of you really get bent if anyone badmouths your pride and joy:biggrin:

I wouldn't be to concerned about AF being super gnarly this year, unless you're racing pro. The pro's are supposed to get the toughest stuff and since we have a completely separate course, I'd expect it to be much tamer then years prior. But heres for hoping.

How you'd do at AF in 08? Details please. Time, cat and age. If its respectable, I'll cut you some slack.

 

[Leppah]

I wish I was going so I could complain about the practice schedule, too!

I'm glad i'm NOT going so i DON'T have to complain about the little amount of practice. I hardly race, and this kinda reminds me why. Seems like it's just not enough time to get dialed on a super long trail that you are planning to race on. If it was just for fun runs, it would be fine. But that does seem a bit short to me too.

 

[Ithnu]

I wasn't worried about practice until I saw more than 40 riders in my bracket alone, CAT 2 19-29. Its a long track so I hope the 100 riders in CAT2/3 can all share during the 2-3 hours we get each day.

I think I'll have enough time to practice. We just need to reduce the douchebaggery. Be polite, let faster folks through, don't stop on blind corners, when people yell rider get off the trail, etc.

I also noticed the online registration showed that there were 280+ DH starts and only 70+ 4X starts. Anyone else see a trend here?

 

[SylentK]

So far, 89 dudes in Cat 1. 24 in my class. Too bad we can't see names and start talkin trash! hahaha



And 53 in Pro. In case anyone cared.

 

[Beast]

Too bad we can't see names and start talkin trash!

Yes, you can: https://new.sportsbaseonline.com/events/tools/registration-by-user.xhtml?categoryId=171

 

[Full Trucker]

Too bad we can't see names and start talkin trash! hahaha

I'm totally gonna beat that Knipe guy (to the beer cooler after he kills me in DH)!!!

 

[funkendrenchman]

So, what are the 2 courses?

 

[spornographer]

this was just iPhoned about 6 minutes ago with the following message:

"The boys from Momentum Trail Concepts say, 'bring your flat cornering skills!'"

The first turn in the MTX has been mowed flat, no berm. SICKNESS!

Other changes include wider/less-tightly gated corners for more options, some inside berms, some inside bumps, the bottom jumps made safer (2nd one is now not as close to the 3rd). Bring your knobby tires if you plan to race 4x or MTX.

LOVE IT!

also, can't confirm, but they didn't think that the "pro" course was new...seemed to think it was one of the existing courses (but could have mods? again, not positive on that).

 

[vinny4130]

Don't forget the DH race in Los Alamos New Mexico the weekend after angle fire! http://www.nmfreeride.com/ Los Alamos is not far from angle fire.

 

[BRIANBUELL]

Michael and I will be there! Really excited for this NM road trip, lots of biking ahead

 

[Kanye West]

Tunnel has never been "hard" and never will be. It's flat and as someone said, it's a hiking trail. It does require a certain amount of riding fitness to ride non-stop at an aggressive pace. Nobody is going to deny that it's rough and works your forearms.

 

[Ithnu]

I'm not racing 4X; however I am glad to see that optional lines have been added. It makes for cornering skill passing.

From what I have heard (those MSC guys like to throw out fake rumors for me to pass on) the Pro course will be a variant of the the 12-hour at AF one last fall and the "normal amateur" course will just be that easy old one*.

*And by that I meant he steep rocky, gnarly 2003 World Cup course I'm racing CAT 2 and don't expect anything easy. I'm bringing every back up part I own. Including the fork off my wife's bike.

 

[jasonvelocity]

I heard rumor the ameteur course will be lined with silken pillows and sweets. Just a rumor.

 

[Ithnu]

I heard rumor the ameteur course will be lined with silken pillows and sweets. Just a rumor.

dude, don't get a mt bike course confused with your living room