[dwaugh]

I am researching this for school, and I found this article that bugged me in a way. Here is part of it.

"Some things are obvious: mountain bikes do more damage to the land than hikers. To think otherwise ignores the story told by the ground. Although I have never ridden a mountain bike, I am very familiar with their impacts. For the last seven years I have regularly run three to six miles several times a week on a network of trails in the Sandia Mountain foothills two blocks from my home. … These trails receive use from walkers, runners, and mountain bikers; they are closed to motorized vehicles. Because I'm clumsy, I keep my eyes on the trail in front of me. I run or walk in all seasons, in all kinds of weather. I have watched the growing erosion on these trails from mountain bike use. The basic difference between feet and tires is that tire tracks are continuous and foot tracks are discontinuous. Water finds that narrow, continuous tire tracks are a rill in which to flow. Also, because many mountain bikers are after thrills and speed, their tires cut into the ground. Slamming on the brakes after zooming downhill, sliding around sharp corners, and digging in to go uphill: I see the results of this behavior weekly. … I regularly see mountain bikers cutting off cross-country, even on steep slopes, for more of a challenge. They seem blind and deaf to the damage they cause. Admittedly, backpackers and horsepackers can cause damage to wilderness trails. But this is a poor argument to suggest that we add another source of damage to those trails." Dave Foreman

Some of it makes sence, but I think he has the wrong image of a true mountain biker, the all mountain rider.

 

[jacksonpt]

Yea, it's the same old thing though. There are a handfull of assholes out there who are completely disrespectful towards other people on the trail and the trail itself (as well as the surrounding environment. Most of us are very aware of our impact on the environment and act accordingly by doing trail maintenance, cutting new trails to allow old ones to "recover" etc. But it's the handfull of jerks that establish a reputation we all get slapped with.

 

[Zark]

IMBA has some excellent resources that you should look at. MTB damage is about the same as hikers, much less than equestrians. Irresponsible use causes damage, no doubt. But EVERY trail needs maintenance regardless of who uses it.

The eroding effect he's describing sounds like water damage from lack of maintenance. It happened to follow the same path as the bike tires, because they both tend to take tyhe path of least resistance. The water would have flowed there anyway. I'm not saying bikes didn't contribute, but its a drop in the bucket compared to what a storm can do.

 

[ito]

So hikers and equestrians cause damage to the trail, butthat doesn't matter.....why? His last sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know anyone who rides off the trail to go up steeper sections. First off you wouldn't be able to pedal up areas without any trail. Usually such things as trees and brush get in the way. Though it is hard to make a judgment without knowing the type of soil and trails that he is talking about.

Dwaugh, would you really expect someone who "has never ridden a mountain bike" but is "very familiar with their impacts" to care what an all mountain rider is?

The Ito

EDIT: Noticed it's a quote from one of Vandeham's articles :mumble:

 

[MikeD]

That dude is a noted kook. I think someone (Stoney, maybe?) on the board has had a personal run-in or two with him.

www.safetrails.net forever, baby!

MD

 

[berkshire_rider]

It the typical "old hiker" attitude. I wan't to hear people like this try and explain how places like the AT, Long Path, top of Mt Washington, or any other "hiking only" trail gets erroded. You could drive a car down parts of them from the braiding / widening of hikers going around mud/puddles. They must have been poached by mtb's.

 

[MikeD]

There's also the fact that in some places, it's only recently that bikers have arrived en masse. So, there are sometimes a LOT more trail users than there used to be. Now, though, instead of just being grumpy that formerly isolated or unused trails are crowded, there's the bike to point to, and blame for the erosion that comes with an increase in trail usage of any type.

MD

 

[dwaugh]

IMBA has some excellent resources that you should look at. MTB damage is about the same as hikers, much less than equestrians. Irresponsible use causes damage, no doubt. But EVERY trail needs maintenance regardless of who uses it..

Yes, he sites that article and says that they did it all wrong, that they are wrong, etc. This guy annoys me a lot.

stoney98, you know this guy? He puts traps on trails?

 

[MudGrrl]

Learn About Your Enemy


I have been in a lot of disputes with this guy.
You will not ever win him over.
He resorts to juvenile language and tries to turn your arguments around on you.

Keep your distance...

 

[DRB]

I've had an ongoing battle with mikey v since 1996 in the mountain bike newsgroups and email. He actually was the one that lead to Rec.bicycles.mountainbike being moderated. Leaving Alt. the free for all. He is a very well known kook. What you don't see is that he believes that man shouldn't even really be in wilderness at all. He hates horses almost as much but they seem better able to ignore him.

 

[Echo]

I wish I had a nickel for every thread about that Vandeham asshat.

 

[MikeD]

Oh, you might have a dollar, then...a dollar to re-invest in your sick, habitat-destroying lifestyle!

 

[bushwacker]

Go to sugarloaf ridge SP and do some research, err I mean hiking.
Bikes are NOT allowed on the non-paved trails. Neither are horses.

There are feet deep ruts in the trails everywhere.

 

[clancy98]

counter-booby traps?

 

[JRB]

I wish I had a nickel for every thread about that Vandeham asshat.

I wish I had a nickel everytime you wished you had a nickel.

 

[dwaugh]

I sent him an email... if anything this will just provide entertainment for me, just like fooling with internet scammers.

 

[DRB]

I sent him an email... if anything this will just provide entertainment for me, just like fooling with internet scammers.

You'll regret it.

 

[dwaugh]

Ok, I guess, I just like to get my point through to those who just dont get it. It's just who I am.

 

[SkaredShtles]

You'll regret it.

He's a complete kook and provides *very* little entertainment.

-S.S.-

 

[DRB]

Ok, I guess, I just like to get my point through to those who just dont get it. It's just who I am.

You will get nothing thru to him. More than likely you will end up as "proof" of his point in a rant on his website.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Ok, I guess, I just like to get my point through to those who just dont get it. It's just who I am.

Dude. You won't. It's like banging your head against a brick wall. You end up with a headache, and the brick wall....

Well, it's a brick wall.

-S.S.-

 

[dwaugh]

You will get nothing thru to him. More than likely you will end up as "proof" of his point in a rant on his website.

Finally, some recognition.

What's a kook?

 

[Echo]

What's a kook?

zealot; fanatic; rabble-rouser; freak; radical; bigot; extremist; stick-in-the-mud; nutcase; maniac; crackpot; fool.

Any of those synonyms fits him well.

 

[dhtahoe]

When are people going to grasp the fact that if you remove vegitation from the ground it WILL erode. No matter who uses it. We have a trail in Truckee that has had a person doing these kinds of things. On a trail that was legal AND we had permission to build on it. When the whole booby-trap thing started happening I waited for the guy, watched him place the traps, took photos found out where he lived. Put a COPY of the photos on his door and said the others would go to the Truckee PD if he did not stop. We have had a clear trail from then on. F with my way of living and my well-being just so you can come here ON THE WEEKENDS will not fly here.

 

[MudGrrl]

Ok, I guess, I just like to get my point through to those who just dont get it. It's just who I am.

HAVE FUN!!!!

Whatever you do..... *please* don't mention Ridemonkey to him.
I am begging you.

If he comes over here, I will personally hunt you down and force you to watch "A Cinderella Story" with your eyes taped open for 234646 hours straight.

 

[Barbaton]

Maybe you guys need one of those motion trip cameras they use to photo tigers, etc. If you can photograph him setting a trap that later hurts someone, perhaps the police will be more likely to act.

 

[dhtahoe]

Personally if I ever run into this guy he WILL get the crap kicked out of him... Then I claim it was self-defence... because it is. If you are attacked you have a RIGHT to defend yourself. I keep waiting for my two buddies from Oakland to run into this guy (some of you know who I mean). It WILL be the last time you hear of him for sure.

 

[dwaugh]

I wont say anything about RM at all. I just wanna see what kind of dumb response he can come up with.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

dwaugh,

Please take a hint.

 

[MikeD]

Hey, here's a big crusty pile of poo...let's poke at it with a stick!

 

[dwaugh]

I hardly said anything, plus I wont even write back to him if he does reply. I didnt know he was THAT bad.