[StiHacka]

Go ahead and hate but here in the NE wider lightweight rims and 20-ish PSI are bees knees for singletrack fun. But again, I don't have to deal with cat litter over rocks in off-camber high speed corners.

Obviously, my bike is 27.5 and has 40mm rims and dw-link and Reverb AND is a dentist's bike so it is totally unrideable. Hey Sandwich, how about a ride on our inrideable bikes?

 

[Sandwich]

yeah dude, the snow finally melted! I have a 29er, are you sure you can be seen with me?

I think some wide is good, especially with lightweight carbonz rims....but 12 PSI and 3" wide tires doesn't add anything that quality suspension and a solid 2.3-2.4" tire can't do....just my experience.

 

[jonKranked]

here in the NE wider lightweight rims and 20-ish PSI are bees knees for singletrack fun

you've been spending too much time in the bong shed.

 

[StiHacka]

yeah dude, the snow finally melted! I have a 29er, are you sure you can be seen with me?

I'll take the risk.

I think some wide is good, especially with lightweight carbonz rims....but 12 PSI and 3" wide tires doesn't add anything that quality suspension and a solid 2.3-2.4" tire can't do....just my experience.

No disagreement with that. I have 2.2 & 2.4 tires on Derbys and don't go under 17PSI (not intentionally although I finished some rides with way less than that )

 

[atrokz]

Sandwich is right. There's a balance on where a rims width should be in relation to a tires size. Go too narrow and you lose the idea, go too wide and you lose the idea. These guys lauding super low tire pressures are typically the slower ones on the trails. Don't get too offended, I said 'typically'. And that's cool, you need low pressures to deal with 'traction' because you're going so frick'n fast down those manicured flow trails, bro.

I can't run less than 30psi on a set of HR2's (2.5" width single ply) or it squirms and rolls during hard cornering. I'm a big guy, so obviously I'd run a little more than someone 50lbs less, but sub 20? are you a rock crawling truck or something? Do our rims have bead locks? DH tires get less because they are thick and designed for low pressures. But here we are with people recommending pressures less than what DH tires run, on absurdly wide rims squaring off 2.5" tires.

Whatever floats your boat. Just get out of my way.

 

[jonKranked]

20psi + east coast rox = unrideable

 

[atrokz]

20psi + east coast rox = unrideable

Pretty rocky around here too (east coast I guess), but even on flat or bermed corners the tire just rolls over with low pressure. It's like people think a little more 'traction' in a straight line is the most important thing in cycling. Then these 'experts' offer up their 'expertise' as a blanket statement when ignoring that set up should in fact be different for everything from riding style, speed, trails, rim, tires, and riders weight.

 

[slyfink]

TBH, I really think it depends on the trail and type of riding you're doing. I'm east coast too. On the gravity oriented trails, I like a 25mm rim with 2.3 tires. But on the up and down grindy, super tight, no-flow trails, I think there's something to the wider tires. My buddies on wide rims and wide tires are the faster xc riders in my group, and it makes an exponential difference on those grinder trails. I have to work the bike a lot harder to keep my line and my flow, and they can lay down the watts and power away. It's a little disheartening actually, but I'm not willing to give up the DH performance (and fun) I have in order to fall a little less behind on the flats and ups.

 

[jonKranked]

TBH, I really think it depends on the trail and type of riding you're doing. I'm east coast too. On the gravity oriented trails, I like a 25mm rim with 2.3 tires. But on the up and down grindy, super tight, no-flow trails, I think there's something to the wider tires. My buddies on wide rims and wide tires are the faster xc riders in my group, and it makes an exponential difference on those grinder trails. I have to work the bike a lot harder to keep my line and my flow, and they can lay down the watts and power away. It's a little disheartening actually, but I'm not willing to give up the DH performance (and fun) I have in order to fall a little less behind on the flats and ups.

hogwash. i have narrow rims and a 1.95" rear tire at something like 45 psi and i can climb like a billy goat on amphetamines. but somehow mysetup is unrideable

 

[StiHacka]

But on the up and down grindy, super tight, no-flow trails, I think there's something to the wider tires.

I ride such trails 90% of the time, grinding up'n'down rocky/rooty features but the wider rims don't hold me back on more flowy up'n'down trails either. After rain when we get slime, 17PSI on slick rock and roots are the ticket. For gravity fun, I have a 26" DH rig with "normal" rims and 2.5 DH tires.

 

[slyfink]

hogwash. i have narrow rims and a 1.95" rear tire at something like 45 psi and i can climb like a billy goat on amphetamines. but somehow mysetup is unrideable

I ride such trails 90% of the time, grinding up'n'down rocky/rooty features but the wider rims don't hold me back on more flowy up'n'down trails either. After rain when we get slime, 17PSI on slick rock and roots are the ticket. For gravity fun, I have a 26" DH rig with "normal" rims and 2.5 DH tires.

eh, I guess I'm just old, fat, and slow then!

 

[atrokz]

eh, I guess I'm just old, fat, and slow then!

Bike industries target market!!

 

[Westy]

I am anxiously taking notes from this thread so I can mock and stereotype riders based on tire/rim width.

I have figured out that on the too wide side are the talentless fat bike riders, and on the other end of the spectrum the lycra XC race fags. Just not quite sure where the cool talented soul riders land yet. I will not ride until I can figure this out and obtain the correct gear. I will not be judged poorly by my rolling width!

 

[atrokz]

You will be judged!

Or, just pick what actually works for you vs what a bunch of 'experts' tell you what's *supposed* to be better based on shoddy understanding of hysteresis

 

[Westy]

You will be judged!

Or, just pick what actually works for you vs what a bunch of 'experts' tell you what's *supposed* to be better based on shoddy understanding of hysteresis

OK. I stick with the wheels I've got. Still can't ride until I figure out if my shorts/sock are too long/short. Aaaaah this is so difficult, how can I buy approval from my fellow riders?

Maybe I will just keep leaving everyone behind so I don't have to hear their mean words.

 

[Sandwich]

Just don't sell everything you own to buy into a new wheelsize to get you back into the "core" of the sport. Just go effing ride your bike more.

 

[RayB]

My experience on the matter: Spent the past year on the Ibis 741 (41mm) carbon wheelset running tubeless with Schwalbe "Super Gravity" casing tires (1100g per).

Most times, I ran 20-22psi (sometimes sub-20). Rode a healthy variety of California singletrack, bike parks, and even raced the entire Fontana Winter Series. I never once flatted nor rolled tire off rim.

Still, I think YMMV, but I'm fuckin' sold on this wider, carbon thing.

 

[jonKranked]

You will be judged!

you'll need a set of calipers in order to properly judge people by their rim width

 

[Westy]

you'll need a set of calipers in order to properly judge people by their rim width

I have mounted a Faro volumetric laser scanner to my handlebars so I can scan and measure one's bike from a distance. Don't want to be seen too close to someone with the wrong width wheel. What if someone assumes I am an enduro rider when I am actually an all-mountainist. Or even worse, what if people think I am an aggressive XCer?

 

[atrokz]

Oh god, Faro. I used a Faro-Arm for 5 years when doing Tool & Die. I have many sets of calipers, I'll bring a few out on my next ride. Anything under 35mm and I'll have to be faster than them. Because science.

 

[kidwoo]

an aggressive XCer?

I think you're good on that one since everyone knows those don't really exist.

 

[atrokz]

My experience on the matter: Spent the past year on the Ibis 741 (41mm) carbon wheelset running tubeless with Schwalbe "Super Gravity" casing tires (1100g per).

Most times, I ran 20-22psi (sometimes sub-20). Rode a healthy variety of California singletrack, bike parks, and even raced the entire Fontana Winter Series. I never once flatted nor rolled tire off rim.

Still, I think YMMV, but I'm fuckin' sold on this wider, carbon thing.

Casings like that can help prevent roll. They are designed to be run with lower pressures I think.

 

[Jm_]

Carbonz rimz let me run lower pressure

 

[CBJ]

I can't see how could you get away with running low air pressure where I ride. You would bottom out the tire on the rim all the time. Much talk about rolling off the tire but for me rim and tire destruction is the real problem.

I'll still say a light wheelset is king on a trail bike and wider rims and bigger tires is going the opposite direction.

There is no way I can blame my rim width for going slow.

 

[Westy]

I think you're good on that one since everyone knows those don't really exist.

It was a term Stoney was using when he was looking for advice on his last non-tri-bike. It made me LOL.

 

[Sandwich]

My experience on the matter: Spent the past year on the Ibis 741 (41mm) carbon wheelset running tubeless with Schwalbe "Super Gravity" casing tires (1100g per).

Most times, I ran 20-22psi (sometimes sub-20). Rode a healthy variety of California singletrack, bike parks, and even raced the entire Fontana Winter Series. I never once flatted nor rolled tire off rim.

Still, I think YMMV, but I'm fuckin' sold on this wider, carbon thing.

how wide were the tires?

I don't think it's crazy to run 2.4 or 2.5 in tires on big fat rims...I just think the "ZOMG 2#+ all the things" is stupid. Fat bikes are rad for snow and sand and going really slow....but the advantages on dry singletrack evaporate quickly compared to well tuned suspension and lighter weight, in my opinion after owning a few.

 

[Bikael Molton]

I don't understand how can everyone push fatbikes so hard. I know they learned from their 29er mistake of not pushing stuff hard enough but while 27.5'' is a sustainable standard how many people will ride their fatbikes after purchasing them? They are not cheap enough to cater to "i need any bike cheap to ride with my kid" crowd and the core hates them.

In USA, cheap-ass fatbikes are plentiful and becoming the de-facto dorkbike for middle aged non-athletes to ride with their kids... essentially exactly the ""i need any bike cheap to ride with my kid" crowd", which used to be covered by chinese Schwinn cruiser styles. 60lb fatbikes are probably the new default rental tourist bike at a lot of seaside resorts too (not sure; don't go to such places).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoose-Dolomite-Men-s-7-speed-All-Terrain-Fat-Tire-Mountain-Bike-Navy-Blue-Red/29741123

 

[Bikael Molton]

PS sorry for getting off topic but I LOVE MTBR

 

[4130biker]

^^^The RM ban bike. Get caught riding that, and it's over.

 

[RayB]

how wide were the tires?

I don't think it's crazy to run 2.4 or 2.5 in tires on big fat rims...I just think the "ZOMG 2#+ all the things" is stupid. Fat bikes are rad for snow and sand and going really slow....but the advantages on dry singletrack evaporate quickly compared to well tuned suspension and lighter weight, in my opinion after owning a few.

2.35 Schwalbe Super-Gravity and 2.4 Maxxis EXO.

Agreed on all the other stuff you said. I rode for years with 2.35 Maxxis on 21mm rims and it's not like going to wider rims made me any better/worse of a rider (beyond just natural progression). However, the reliability and consistency of the combination is what has me sold.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

This thread amuses me, bring me pickles.

 

[norbar]

In USA, cheap-ass fatbikes are plentiful and becoming the de-facto dorkbike for middle aged non-athletes to ride with their kids... essentially exactly the ""i need any bike cheap to ride with my kid" crowd", which used to be covered by chinese Schwinn cruiser styles. 60lb fatbikes are probably the new default rental tourist bike at a lot of seaside resorts too (not sure; don't go to such places).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoose-Dolomite-Men-s-7-speed-All-Terrain-Fat-Tire-Mountain-Bike-Navy-Blue-Red/29741123

Yes but I wasn't talking about walmart bikes. I was talking about the ton of different more expensive bikes companies like specialized sell. Spesh doesn't live from wallmart sales.

 

[norbar]

http://www.bikemag.com/gear/27-bikes/

Jesus. Trek thinks 27+ and 29+ is just as inventive as the iphone. Jesus the level of bulshit is too much for me and I worked in marketing for Twlight. I really wonder if boost hubs sparke in the sunlight live Edward the Vampire.

I also love how they claim 27+29+ is for people who suck at bikes.

 

[Westy]

If anyone questions why the bike industry is pushing fat fucking tires. Take a look at the price of said tires. $100+ for the most disposable/replaceable component on a bike.

 

[slimshady]

... and speaking of MTBR, what's up with them and SOC? Have they dumped their special coverage? I didn't see any massive updates in their site like in the previous years...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

If anyone questions why the bike industry is pushing fat fucking tires. Take a look at the price of said tires. $100+ for the most disposable/replaceable component on a bike.

So to an order of magnitude twice what a two point whatever tire costs. If by some miracle fatties are not the short lived fad you boys like to whine about, tire price will come down as the genre matures.

 

[Sandwich]

how much further does it have to mature? When somebody releases a suspension fork? when large companies like trek and specialized get on board? When asian tire brands start releasing tires? I think the genre is fully baked at this point, and it's still expensive as shit. $120 for a 29x3.0 semi slick is stupid.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

We'll find out, won't we?

 

[Westy]

The more tire standards there are the more molds a tire company has to have made for a single tread pattern. Not only are molds expensive but changing out molds during a production run is a labor expense that yields no product. Ever increasing standards will likely raise the price of all tires.

 

[slimshady]

The more tire standards there are the more molds a tire company has to have made for a single tread pattern. Not only are molds expensive but changing out molds during a production run is a labor expense that yields no product. Ever increasing standards will likely raise the price of all tires.

That's the industry kool-aid. I see it differently: They test the market, if anyone buys their sh*t at absurd high prices, they won't mark them down. Plus you have to take into account the lack of *real* competition in the bike industry. In the last few years we have witnessed the rise of a whole "bike cartel", where everyone agrees to push new standards every now and then.