That's only because we don't have enough gunz in our closets.
Much of the right is "in the closet".
- Thread starter 1000-Oaks
- Start date
That must be why we've had such an easy time in Iraq and Afghanistan.
last time I checked, they didn't throw us out of Iraq/Afghanistan. It isn't a contest over there, the U.S has clear military superiority, they kill a bunch of soldiers, but a lot of insurgents die.
Yeah cuz they're coming at us with shotguns and .38s
Yeah, but that's an organized militia of seasoned fighters driven by sectarian and religious hate. Hell, a decent amount of them are using insurgent tactics taught to them by the United States. You, manimal, and MikeD together might last a couple of hours if you had a chance to dig in. Everyone else on this board would be as dead as Vicki Weaver.
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That's funny... "it's not even a contest"
yet up until a couple months ago most around here were demanding an immediate removal of troops because it was seen as a lost cause. A populace as armed as the US would indeed cause problems if the military tried to seize all control. To suggest otherwise is just being stupid, especially considering the huge numbers of gun owners. Im not saying our huge military couldn't ultimately be successful, but "no contest" is just dumb.
And you don't think a military takeover would inspire a ton of hatred from the general public? And you think a ton of vets, law enforcement officials, current military members, etc. could compare to a few "insurgents" ?
I dont like to align myself with the "gun nuts" but some of you guys who try to dismiss any legitimacy of the 2nd amendment in current times take things too far to try and make points. Think about it. There's a ton of f***ers with guns out there who know how to use them. And as someone who spent time in the military, I'll tell you that the level of competence in using firearms doesn't vary that greatly from joe sixpack to average army soldier.
An SKS or an AK isnt any more or less deadly than a shotgun depending on the situation. Plenty of people own rifles and the like that are for more accurate and powerful than an AK as well.Yeah cuz they're coming at us with shotguns and .38s
Military use of force by the government of the United States against US citizens would have most of the people you describe sit up and say, "It's about time we blew up them faggots and spooks! USA! Whooo!"
Sure, the Ron Paul guys might get annoyed, and a few of them might start shooting...I don't think we'd see RenegadeRick post anymore...
Some might say that, but I dont know about most. Either way, I think a gun owning public causes quite a bit more hesitation than a disarmed one and that's worth something. We can disagree and argue about scope and scale all day, but don't say there's not an argument to be made.
When I think of armed muslim extremists... I often think of RPGs, but I dont think it's like the ultimate muslim weapon or something... that without them they would be powerless against American forces. I think they're mostly for show and making big boom noises. Id almost guarantee that gunshots and IED's are responsible for 95% of us casualties.
Sh*t, there were explosives in my own basement.
I'm saying in terms of taking control of major cities, that it wouldn't be a contest. It would take much, much longer to wipe out the dissidents.That's funny... "it's not even a contest"
A populace as armed as the US would indeed cause problems if the military tried to seize all control. To suggest otherwise is just being stupid, especially considering the huge numbers of gun owners. Im not saying our huge military couldn't ultimately be successful, but "no contest" is just dumb.
You may have a point in this country. But there are plenty of gubbamints around without an armed civilian population yet still have an influence on their holy leaders. But they don't go and do things like start wars and tell their populace to fvck off. But I still agree with silver. A bunch of muhammads who want some virgins are a hell of a lot more motivated than dudes with beer guts getting their religion from the free republic.
My point was just that the average insurgent has access to much greater firepower than the average beer gut. They also like.......you know.....sometimes train and stuff.
Yeah whatever happened with that? I'll help you overthrow a mayor or something.
You know we "took control" of Baghdad pretty quick too, but that really doesn't mean anything. Often times resolve is the key issue in whether an occupying force is ultimately successful... but an occupying force facing no armed resistance doesn't even need resolve.
If you think about the revolutionary war... it wasn't that the US militias were superior in firepower, numbers or anything... they just hung around and kept causing problems until it was too costly for the brits to remain involved. If no one had any means of fighting back, I imagine we'd be in a somewhat different situation to today.
WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think any of us really has a grasp on how much firepower the average muslim extremist has vs. the average armed redneck. There are a hell of a lot of guns out there (in the US), and they're legal to have. Im not sure if civilians were even allowed guns in Iraq before this whole thing went down... but they're sure there now. As people (MikeD i think) has mentioned before... weapons tend to make themselves available in those type situations, so Im really not sure we can intelligently argue who is, was or would be better armed.
As for the training... Im sure some of the "insurgents' have been to an Al Queda camp or two, but surely not the vast majority of them. Just like some US gun owners are cops, former cops, former military, etc. I think you could make that parallel.
Any way we slice this though, some insurgency on our part would be better than just bending over and taking it IMHO.
Edit: As for those explosives... never heard anything back on it at all. The bomb squad guys just took it and detonated it and got some donuts I guess.
I'm not disagreeing on the firepower. I'm disagreeing on the training and experience and, most importantly, the political will.
I'm sure you know how important the former is. After all, the insurgency in Afghanistan has the benefit of lots of veteran knowledge from the Soviet invasion. The insurgency in Iraq was also strenghtened by the same guys.
The latter was very important in the second half the the eighteenth century. Nowadays, you can come in and blow away a couple of dogs and leave an elderly woman handcuffed on the floor for a couple of hours in a botched and totally unnecessary drug raid (and that's even buying into the premise of drug prohibition in the first place) and the only people who bat an eyelid are politically extreme cranks.
But people, even in the US, have their limits. Does the phrase "from my cold dead hands" ring a bell?
Sure. Jesus also commands his followers to love their neighbours as themselves. We've seen how that works in practice.
Well I don't want to convolute this whole thing with religion and all that, but if this scenario were to actually unfold, Id like to think Id be among the first to take up arms... and Im not even a gun or anti government fanatic. Wouldnt you be prepared to fight in that situation? Im not just going to say that everyone else who says they would is full of crap.
I think I'll be in Canada before it gets that dire.
Would I fight if personally threatened? For sure.
I'd fight for the concept of America. I would never fight for Americans though.
Training and experience come from scraping your way through the first couple months of armed conflict. You don't need to start with it. The Afghanis had to start somewhere against the Soviets and it worked.
I'm with Burly on this... there's no chance it would ever come to it in the foreseeable future, but the people could absolutely retake the government if necessary.
I'm patrick swayze when the shlt hits the fan.
I called it.
That's all I'm sayin.
I called it.
That's all I'm sayin.
Yeah but it's producing comedy gold entertainment for me fella.
So pipe down deputy, the Sheriffs are talkin.
