[Andeh]

In reality it’s probably only a few seconds slower over a minute to run 26” over 29”. But race results = bike sales so 29” it is.

I find it quite funny that in the heyday of Freeride, bikes were pushed towards the idea of winch and drop. Super short, super high, with loads of travel. This informed the DH bikes and racers had to run all kinds of mods to slacken and speed the bikes up. Now racing is back at the forefront and many of the top Freeride guys are using old, shorter frames, 26” wheels and other mods to create bikes fit for purpose.
I imagine most recreational riders would actually prefer a nimble, Freeride based sled, over a full on DH race machine designed for today’s motorway tracks.

The Red Bull freeride guys are doing a lot of that to make the bikes easier to spin and flip around. Most recreational riders are not doing that. That's not to say that most recreational riders need (or are even able to handle) a bike that is crazy long and slack, but at the same time I know that at the same time, a moderate amount of length and slackness will help them feel more confident and ride better than the would on a bike with 2011 geometry.

When I got my first bike that was designed to be 27.5 (Nomad 3), it was game changing in terms of what it allowed me to ride. The reach and chainstay lengths weren't much longer, but it was over 2 degrees slacker at the front and 3 degrees steeper at the seat. It's geometry (65 HTA, 74 STA) was super progressive for the time but it's in line with some "downcountry" bikes now.

 

[toodles]

Do we know that the times were slower? Different courses, different bikes, often different riders.
I really want to see what a "modern" geometry 26" bike could do.

You can get a few bikes these days that are available in either 29 or 27.5 with basically the same(ish) geo and I think it's pretty convincing there's not many places a 29er isn't faster to some degree. The margin would vary depending on the terrain quite a bit but I don't see many racers opting to run a 27.5 front anymore. Doesn't necessarily make them redundant though, if it's not a WC race then who cares and there's plenty of people that prefer the manoeuvring characteristics of the smaller wheels.

 

[iRider]

You can get a few bikes these days that are available in either 29 or 27.5 with basically the same(ish) geo and I think it's pretty convincing there's not many places a 29er isn't faster to some degree. The margin would vary depending on the terrain quite a bit but I don't see many racers opting to run a 27.5 front anymore. Doesn't necessarily make them redundant though, if it's not a WC race then who cares and there's plenty of people that prefer the manoeuvring characteristics of the smaller wheels.

Remember, that is what they said about full 29ers as well. They are faster. Now we are back to mullet and you just wait, in a couple of years Big Hit-style mullet 26/24 will be all the rage.

 

[vivisectxi]

in a couple of years Big Hit-style mullet 26/24 will be all the rage.

OH HELL YES

(i actually raced dh on this abomination; wtf, in retrospect)

 

[6thElement]

OH HELL YES

(i actually raced dh on this abomination; wtf, in retrospect)

View attachment 176241

Did you put the original fork back on and give it back to the kid next door once you'd finished?

 

[richt2000]

Hope HB-916 has a mullet flip chip in the seat stay. Its not marketed as a high/low position, purely a mullet flip chip. Also has adjustable headset as stock also

 

[boostindoubles]

I parking lot drove a handful of Mullets™ tonight at the factory headquarters and I can honestly say I am going to pick one up. My bike handles like shit compared to the Mullet™. The superiority was so obvious, it was kinda lame.

I shit you not, Lopes is even on one. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Jm_]

View attachment 178609
View attachment 178610

I parking lot drove a handful of Mullets™ tonight at the factory headquarters and I can honestly say I am going to pick one up. My bike handles like shit compared to the Mullet™. The superiority was so obvious, it was kinda lame.

I shit you not, Lopes is even on one. Haters gonna hate.

Looks like a Weyless 67 with the same falling rate.

 

[Jm_]

Looks like a Weyless 67 with the same falling rate.

Edit: Nevermind, the Weyless looks to have significantly more progression.

Why are they designing that mullet bike with a falling rate?

 

[boostindoubles]

Edit: Nevermind, the Weyless looks to have significantly more progression.

Why are they designing that mullet bike with a falling rate?

Miles chose to go this route for his own reasons. I am going after the hardtail. I don't know when it's gonna happen.

Edit... this is Mile's response...

It's linear and we get progression from tuning a modern air shock, ig, lighter valving, air can diameter, oil, shim stack. Not every shock we tested and tuned with the manufacturer worked. Such as rock shocks and cane creek. The shocks we use also have high/low speed compression and high/low speed rebound. We find our desired from progression and not from linkages.

 

[Jm_]

Miles chose to go this route for his own reasons. I am going after the hardtail. I don't know when it's gonna happen.

Edit... this is Mile's response...

It's linear and we get progression from tuning a modern air shock, ig, lighter valving, air can diameter, oil, shim stack. Not every shock we tested and tuned with the manufacturer worked. Such as rock shocks and cane creek. The shocks we use also have high/low speed compression and high/low speed rebound. We find our desired from progression and not from linkages.

He's an idiot then. That's not even close to linear.

Linear would be if eyelets of the shock were 90 degrees to a line drawn from the main pivot to the rear eyelet...while the shock is halfway through it's travel...except even that is not really because linear is the one thing you can't get from a single pivot design, it only exists at that one point in the travel WHEN designed as I described. The design above is falling rate right out of the gate, as the suspension compresses, the shock rotates downward.

 

[boostindoubles]

I'm not gonna defend the suspension design but I will say I was impressed with my body positioning and how easy it is to get the front end off the ground. Also, it really wants to dip and turn naturally. It felt like it would handle getting tossed into rock gardens at speed easily.

 

[boostindoubles]

I was impressed with that squishy Mullet™ because it will accept a 40t round ring, a 3.0 tire, and has needle bearings. Definitely not the norm these days.

From Miles- We wanted a low leverage ratio to lengthen the life of the shock- we use the largest air shock available by manufacturers, its a DH air shock and we use it for 150mm of travel. The tunability and shock technology wasn't available 10 years ago, otherwise we'd design the frame with linkages. Funny how bikes still have the same linkages used from 2005, yet shocks are far better.

 

[HardtailHack]

Haha, they trademarked "Mullet".

Were they the ones making fake accounts on PB when people said mean things?
Or was that Spot?
Maybe neither, my memory sucks.

 

[slimshady]

Were they the ones making fake accounts on PB when people said mean things?

It was on Vital IIRC. Oh boy what a shitshow.

 

[HardtailHack]

It was on Vital IIRC. Oh boy what a shitshow.

It was the best thing I had ever read on Vital, sadly it's a 404 now.
I don't think I have ever read a bigger load of marketing BS especially considering "We don’t believe in marketing BS and knew what we had worked better."
What the fuck is this then?-

https://www.mulletcycles.com/mullet-bike-geometry/

 

[boostindoubles]

It was the best thing I had ever read on Vital, sadly it's a 404 now.
I don't think I have ever read a bigger load of marketing BS especially considering "We don’t believe in marketing BS and knew what we had worked better."
What the fuck is this then?-

https://www.mulletcycles.com/mullet-bike-geometry/

LOL it is the best thing ever. I can't overstate this enough. For all these reasons and more.

 

[boostindoubles]

Haha, they trademarked "Mullet".

Were they the ones making fake accounts on PB when people said mean things?
Or was that Spot?
Maybe neither, my memory sucks.

It could have been him, I dunno. I was there to test ride bikes. He didn't originate mixed wheels but he did iron out the geometry and made the Mullet™ brand.

The bikes are fun, they love to flop around and pop the front tire off the ground. Imma get one of the hardtails.

 

[scrublover]

Looks like a Weyless 67 with the same falling rate.

I very much enjoyed my Weyless-67 for a few years.

Caveat: it was also my first full suspension bike of any kind. Coming from a 5" forked hardtail to that frame built up with a Marzocchi Z150 (!) was eye opening. Kinda' wish I still had that frame kicking around to build into...something.

Not averse to the mullet setup/simple single pivot at all, but those Mullet bikes are straight up fugly. Function > form, but only to a certain undefined point.

It's like Porn. You know it when you see it.

Like, give me an updateded slack/low/long SC Superlight as my daily driver trailbike and I'd ride the shit out of it, smiling all day long.

 

[slimshady]

Kinda' wish I still had that frame kicking around to build into...something.

I hear ya! I still lust over a Mountain Cycle Battery. It shouldn't be too hard to build one into a capable urban assault mini beast.

 

[Jm_]

I very much enjoyed my Weyless-67 for a few years.

Caveat: it was also my first full suspension bike of any kind. Coming from a 5" forked hardtail to that frame built up with a Marzocchi Z150 (!) was eye opening. Kinda' wish I still had that frame kicking around to build into...something.

Not averse to the mullet setup/simple single pivot at all, but those Mullet bikes are straight up fugly. Function > form, but only to a certain undefined point.

It's like Porn. You know it when you see it.

Like, give me an updateded slack/low/long SC Superlight as my daily driver trailbike and I'd ride the shit out of it, smiling all day long.

Yeah , I was totally mistaken, when I looked back, the 67 didn’t have a falling rate and looked to be a legit bullit clone.

 

[iRider]

Mountain Cycle Battery.

That would be a great name for an e-bike.

 

[slimshady]

That would be a great name for an e-bike.

It also weighted as much as one, it just didn't have a motor, or batteries, or controller...

 

[iRider]

It also weighted as much as one, it just didn't have a motor, or batteries, or controller...

I know, MC was "local" to me at the time. They were in Portland, OR. So you saw a Battery quite often in Falls City.
At the time I probably would have picked up a Transition Bottlerocket if I would have been in the market for that kind of bike. Corsair Konig was also popular there.
I had/have an overforked Intense Tazer though for the flow trails, and if there are bigger jumps I always prefer more cushion than what the Battery has.

 

[HardtailHack]

It also weighted as much as one, it just didn't have a motor, or batteries, or controller...

They should have called that one the assault so you could get an Assault and Battery.

 

[boostindoubles]

In two weeks I'll be the proud owner of a Mullet™.

 

[Avy]

OH HELL YES

(i actually raced dh on this abomination; wtf, in retrospect)

View attachment 176241

So is a 26 24 combo not a proper Mullet? Like say a Super 8 26 24 combo? I found it fun as Hell.

Avy

 

[englertracing]

So is a 26 24 combo not a proper Mullet? Like say a Super 8 26 24 combo? I found it fun as Hell.

Avy

I know a guy who rides a clapped out super 8.
He got a foes fly and took 10 or 12 years to put it togeather
And he did a 29" front and 26" rear.
Ate shit hard after blowing his umpteenth corner on its first ride.

 

[rideit]

Oh, lord, and I stress over whether having 5 PSI in my Pike isn’t giving me enough sag, and making my fork wander a little bit. However, I adapted to my Mullet so fast, I got a KOM on my first ride on it. (41 second super busy section, but turny and rocky as fuck). Still stands.

 

[Westy]

Is this anything like

 

[HardtailHack]

So is a 26 24 combo not a proper Mullet? Like say a Super 8 26 24 combo? I found it fun as Hell.

Avy

If you trademarked the term, yes, if not then no.
Mullets need to be designed by the people at Mullet Cycles or they won't ride properly, they are bike design wizards.

Two months till my mixed wheel sized abortion arrives, it will no doubt suck because I don't work for Mullet and neither does the chosen frame builder.
I hope Mullet's 120mm frame is identical to mine, hahaha!

 

[sethimus]

is it downcountry compatible?

 

[HardtailHack]

is it downcountry compatible?

I think it will be unrideable, 20yo digressive suspension design, only room for a child's size Fidlock bottle and I'm putting an 11-34t cassette on it so there will be no upcountry happening.

 

[boostindoubles]

I think it will be unrideable, 20yo digressive suspension design, only room for a child's size Fidlock bottle and I'm putting an 11-34t cassette on it so there will be no upcountry happening.

No no, it will be fine! It'll ride great just not as good as it could have been if you opted for the real deal, with secret sauce.


Edit...

Watchu getting?

 

[6thElement]

Appears to have zero length ETT and Reach, so mebbe it will fit @kidwoo and mebbe it will fit @stoney

 

[boostindoubles]

LOL wait until this thing shows up and I start shaking the fairy dust out of the seat tube.

Shit will never be the same!

 

[Brian HCM#1]

How bad would mulleting my 20/21 Supreme DH 29er affect the geometry? Yes, they do make a mullet version in 21 & 22 but I believe its a completely different frame or at least swingarm (linkage is the same). The chainstay on my 29er is 430mm and the current mullet is 456mm. Totally clueless here, which is normal for me anyways but are people doing this on conventional frames and just winging it? Do you steepen the HA to help offset the BB height? Totally confused here and Commencal has been no help. Any advice/recommendations is most welcome.

 

[Andeh]

How bad would mulleting my 20/21 Supreme DH 29er affect the geometry? Yes, they do make a mullet version in 21 & 22 but I believe its a completely different frame or at least swingarm (linkage is the same). The chainstay on my 29er is 430mm and the current mullet is 456mm. Totally clueless here, which is normal for me anyways but are people doing this on conventional frames and just winging it? Do you steepen the HA to help offset the BB height? Totally confused here and Commencal has been no help. Any advice/recommendations is most welcome.

From the OP: "A simple rule of thumb is that swapping like for like (change the 27.5mm fork for an equivalent travel 29mm fork, or put a 27.5 rear wheel on a 29er without changing fork travel) will result in slacking out the head and seat tube angles by about 0.9 degrees, and either raising (27.5->mullet) or dropping (29->mullet) the BB 12mm. "

So yes, at the very least you'd want to put in like a +1.5 degree angleset for starters and see how it rides. You can also put in an Offset Bushing reversed in the front shock mount (so the hole is more rearward), which basically pushes the rear triangle further back/down. This will steepen the HTA by like 0.2-0.3 degrees and raise the BB a few more mm. Finally, you can look into getting a shock with a longer eye to eye measurement, which will act similarly to the Offset Bushing.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

From the OP: "A simple rule of thumb is that swapping like for like (change the 27.5mm fork for an equivalent travel 29mm fork, or put a 27.5 rear wheel on a 29er without changing fork travel) will result in slacking out the head and seat tube angles by about 0.9 degrees, and either raising (27.5->mullet) or dropping (29->mullet) the BB 12mm. "

So yes, at the very least you'd want to put in like a +1.5 degree angleset for starters and see how it rides. You can also put in an Offset Bushing reversed in the front shock mount (so the hole is more rearward), which basically pushes the rear triangle further back/down. This will steepen the HTA by like 0.2-0.3 degrees and raise the BB a few more mm. Finally, you can look into getting a shock with a longer eye to eye measurement, which will act similarly to the Offset Bushing.

Good info! Its a metric shock 250x75 so eye to eye may be difficult. Do offset bushings stay put or do they tend to move over time. Lastly I want to go + 1.5 and go more slack? Again its a 29er to begin with

 

[Andeh]

Good info! Its a metric shock 250x75 so eye to eye may be difficult. Do offset bushings stay put or do they tend to move over time. Lastly I want to go + 1.5 and go more slack? Again its a 29er to begin with

Mulleting it will make it considerably slacker and lower, so you want to steepen the HT to correct it. I suggested a +1.5 degree angleset because whenever I plug those into the calculator the resultant change ends up being a bit less than expected.

The offset bushings seem to stay put if you have them on the end of the shock that's not experiencing rotation from the rear triangle movement. So the front mount in horizontal configuration and bottom mount in vertical. I've been running a reversed one on the front eyelet of my Megatrail for several months now and it hasn't moved.

I'm not certain but I want to say that the offset bushings change the BB height more than anglesets do, for a given amount of HT change. So maybe the best for getting back to stock would be like +1 degree angleset and 1 reversed offset bushing.