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Mullet Madness

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
520
194
Almost did this like 5 times. Geo def ends up looking sweet with the mullet. Had a balance that i mulleted but was a bit tall.
Parking lot test today felt good. Yeah I almost bought a balance to mullet. Got the Lithium instead due to the Balance would be to tall and STA too slack. And to see if long travel 29ers would work with my short legs. I did just fine on the Riot. The Lithium has me alway worried about where the rear wheel is. And turning it is a little slow. I'm a little worried about the low BB but we'll see how it works out.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
532
345

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
980
962
Yeah, how are companies still making medium bikes with 430mm seat tubes in 2022? On medium bikes with ~400 like my GG, I can run a 200mm dropper, and I've got fairly short legs.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
Does anyone have experience with Cascade Comp DHX2 Mullet Eyelet? Kinda seems too good to be true.


 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Does anyone have experience with Cascade Comp DHX2 Mullet Eyelet? Kinda seems too good to be true.


You better understand what a longer i2i shock does in your frame before getting this.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,048
1,285
Styria
As a medium sized human (5'-8"), I've become a convert to the cult of the mullet. With similar geometry, I am finding that I'm able to corner much better than in a full 29 setup, and also find that it's easier for me to ride "loose". While mullet setups seem to really be catching on in DH racing, there are very few trail/enduro bikes offered with mullet setups, so people interested trying this out need to do a conversion.

Someone posted this calculator on Vital, which makes it easy to check the impact of mulleting a bike on the geometry: https://geo.syn.bike/
A simple rule of thumb is that swapping like for like (change the 27.5mm fork for an equivalent travel 29mm fork, or put a 27.5 rear wheel on a 29er without changing fork travel) will result in slacking out the head and seat tube angles by about 0.9 degrees, and either raising (27.5->mullet) or dropping (29->mullet) the BB 12mm.

Factory / officially supported conversions:
Canyon Spectral CF8 CLLCTV (mullet build, cannot be changed after purchase)
Canyon Torque CF8 & Fabio Wibmer (mullet build, cannot be changed after purchase)
Commencal Meta SX '22 (mullet only)
Forbidden Druid & Dreadnaught (Ziggy link, slackens 0.5 degrees & drops BB 3mm)
Hope HB.916 (mullet flip chip)
Kona Process X (mullet flip chip, mullet factory for size small, no changes in geo)
Nicolai G1 ("Hybrid" option, no changes in geo)
Nukeproof Giga 297 (mullet only model, frame only currently)
Nukeproof Mega 297 (mullet only model, frame only currently)
Orbea Rallon '22 (no changes in geo, link ships with bike/frames)
Propain Spindrift (factory option, cannot be changed after purchase)
Santa Cruz Bronson 2022
Specialized Status 140 & 160 (mullet only for both)
Specialized Stumpjumper EVO 2021 (mullet link available for purchase, no changes in geo)
Transition Patrol 2021
Transition Spire 2021 (high mode: 62.0 HTA, 77.8 STA, 336 BB height)


Unofficial conversions that look like the geometry doesn't get too screwed up:
Banshee Titan (high) 170/155: 64.1 HTA, 76.4 STA, 340 BB height
Evil Wreckoning v2 160/166: 64.2 HTA, 76.0 STA, 338 BB height
Guerrilla Gravity MegaTrail 160/165 (with 160mm 29er fork, Gravity mode, short GG lower headset cup): 63.7 HTA, 65.9 STA, 341 BB height
Guerrilla Gravity Shred Dogg 150/140 (with 150mm 29er fork, Gravity mode, 55mm stroke, short cup): 64.5 HTA, 76.9 STA, 346 BB height
Norco Sight C (29 frame with +1* angleset) 160/150: 63.8 HTA, 76.1 STA, 339 BB height
Propain Tyee 170/160: 63.6 HTA, 76.2 STA, 334 BB height
Rocky Mountain Altitude (29 frame w/ -1* angleset) 170/160: 63.8 HTA, 75.8 STA, 341 BB height
Santa Cruz Nomad 5 (high) 170/170: 63.1 HTA, 77.3 STA, 332 BB height
Yeti SB140 140/140: 64.0 HTA, 76.0 STA, 347 BB height
Yeti SB150 170/150: 63.6 HTA, 76.1 STA, 336 BB height

Conversion link kits available:
Commencal Meta AM & TR (Williams Racing Products): supposedly geometry remains close to the same
Santa Cruz Hightower v2 (Cascade Components): 65.0 HTA, 76.5 STA, 335 BB height, +5mm CS length
Specialized Enduro (Williams Racing Products): supposedly geometry remains close to the same


Hope this helps someone. If you know of a factory option, or a potentially good conversion, let me know and I'll update this. My definition of "not too screwed up" geometry is probably something like 63.5-64 HTA, 76-77 STA, 335-345 BB height.
Update on the Titan. Banshee have published a mullet geo chart for the Titan v2 on their website:

1661174788776.png
 

Rodge

Chimp
Apr 15, 2021
9
6
I'm just coming to the point where I can afford my first brand new bike and am sort of stuck on what to get in regards to wheel size. My gut says 27.5 but so many people here seem to like mx and 29"ers.
Do the people here really like their MX and 29"ers that much or are people buying because that's what the markets are selling?
 
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slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
My two cents: I'm a 6ft small wheel diehard as yourself. I have played with a couple new geometry 29ers, and while their owners swear by them and categorize them as "fun", I've found them to feel clumsy unless they're pointing down at mach chicken.

I'm not anything that fast anymore (or was I ever?) so I tend to gravitate towards more playful bikes. After cracking my Orbea Rallon R4 and demoing a 29er R5 I found myself a bit out of place, since it felt like a burden to move around. The Commençal Meta 29 is stable as a transatlantic, but on my local twisty trails left me exhausted as if I was hauling a piano up stairs.


I'm still broke AF so I'm not in the market for a new bike, but if I had the money I think it would go towards a mullet Santa Cruz Nomad or a GG Megatrail.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,988
1,683
Northern California
If I had the choice of two bikes with the perfect geometry - one a 29r and the other 27.5, I'd take the 27.5. The problem is the list of choices for full 27.5 is getting pretty limited.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,419
4,643
Australia
If I had the choice of two bikes with the perfect geometry - one a 29r and the other 27.5, I'd take the 27.5. The problem is the list of choices for full 27.5 is getting pretty limited.
Depending on whether you're buying complete or building up a frame theres a few still kicking about, depending on the travel you want as well.

Nukeproof offers the Reactor, Mega and Giga as full 27.5 (frame only now on Mega and Giga)
Commencal does the Clash
Propaine Tyee 27.5
Canyon does the Torque and Spectral as 27.5
Norco Shore
Kona Process 153

They'll probably all slowly disappear or migrate to mullet I guess, but for now they're still kicking so long as people buy them.

*edit*
Pivot Mach 6
Banshee Rune
Ibis HD5
Pivot Shadowcat
 
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boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,775
6,067
Yakistan
If your PNW I'd say let's hook up and you can try my Mullet Honeymaker. It jumps like a DJ and shreds singletrack like a trail bike. Never had a bike like it. My buddy went for a ride with me and by the end he was sold. He had a frame in hand a week later. We've been riding together for 15 years and he puts the miles behind him. He has about 100 miles on it now and says the only problem is he's not sure when he'll ride his GG Smash again.

Mullet is in Boise and there's bikes to demo there. There's a shop in California somewhere that is a Mullet dealer and has bikes for demo.

It's cool how jumpy and hoppy it is yet stable and composed. The bike feels safer which really just means its way faster.

*Banshee makes the Spitfire which has an option for 26" or 27 5" dropouts.
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,988
1,683
Northern California
Depending on whether you're buying complete or building up a frame theres a few still kicking about, depending on the travel you want as well.

Nukeproof offers the Reactor, Mega and Giga as full 27.5 (frame only now on Mega and Giga)
Commencal does the Clash
Propaine Tyee 27.5
Canyon does the Torque and Spectral as 27.5
Norco Shore
Kona Process 153

They'll probably all slowly disappear or migrate to mullet I guess, but for now they're still kicking so long as people buy them.
There are a few (I have the Shore), however there's not nearly as many options as there used to be. If you're a bike nerd and had a long list of must-haves there's a good chance what you want isn't out there.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,553
1,039
La Verne
Depending on whether you're buying complete or building up a frame theres a few still kicking about, depending on the travel you want as well.

Nukeproof offers the Reactor, Mega and Giga as full 27.5 (frame only now on Mega and Giga)
Commencal does the Clash
Propaine Tyee 27.5
Canyon does the Torque and Spectral as 27.5
Norco Shore
Kona Process 153

They'll probably all slowly disappear or migrate to mullet I guess, but for now they're still kicking so long as people buy them.
But why you forget mach 6
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,048
1,285
Styria
Depending on whether you're buying complete or building up a frame theres a few still kicking about, depending on the travel you want as well.

Nukeproof offers the Reactor, Mega and Giga as full 27.5 (frame only now on Mega and Giga)
Commencal does the Clash
Propaine Tyee 27.5
Canyon does the Torque and Spectral as 27.5
Norco Shore
Kona Process 153

They'll probably all slowly disappear or migrate to mullet I guess, but for now they're still kicking so long as people buy them.
Add Banshee Rune to the full 650b list.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,426
5,342
UK
Depending on whether you're buying complete or building up a frame theres a few still kicking about, depending on the travel you want as well.

Nukeproof offers the Reactor, Mega and Giga as full 27.5 (frame only now on Mega and Giga)
Commencal does the Clash
Propaine Tyee 27.5
Canyon does the Torque and Spectral as 27.5
Norco Shore
Kona Process 153

They'll probably all slowly disappear or migrate to mullet I guess, but for now they're still kicking so long as people buy them.

*edit*
Pivot Mach 6
Banshee Rune
Ibis HD5
Fairly sure NP's full 27.5s are only available in the smaller sizes. Fair enough really.
But thats also what makes the demise of 26 even more retarded. You see sub 5ft ladies on mullets... They more often than not look like they're being taken on a ride by the bike as opposed to the other way round. Same with plenty 5ft6 guys on L reach frames TBF.
The idea that modern geo gives riders more choice is pure fallacy
 
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Rodge

Chimp
Apr 15, 2021
9
6
If your PNW I'd say let's hook up and you can try my Mullet Honeymaker.
In the UK unfortunately, shame as well looks like an interesting bike.

Think I'll build some kind of trail bike and a dh bike. Listening to the people here I think the ones on my list are:
Transition scout
Banshee spitfire
Airdrop filter
5010 just so long as it doesn't go mullet when it's updated

Any others I should consider? Does anyone have strong feelings about any of the above?

I'm really confused at why mullets have taken off so much. They don't seem to be that much better than a modern 27.5". I understand 29"ers for full plow bikes but why the compromise, may as well go one way of the other.

*Edit
What also gets me is everyone compares 29"er to mullets but not mullets to full 27.5" and I don't think the latter comparison is anywhere near as favourable.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,426
5,342
UK
For me it still comes down to whether you like how a 29 front wheel steers and turns in. I don't. And for that reason alone I still to this day prefer full 26 over even a 27.5. Mullet doesn't change that.

What part of the UK you in and whereabouts are your preferred regular mtb riding spots/areas?
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,426
5,342
UK
Not sure what I'm going to get DH bike wise as well now. What would be simillar to a giant glory advanced? I really regret letting that bike go.
An Atherton AM200 custom to your preferred wheel size and geo
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
980
962
I'm really confused at why mullets have taken off so much. They don't seem to be that much better than a modern 27.5". I understand 29"ers for full plow bikes but why the compromise, may as well go one way of the other.

*Edit
What also gets me is everyone compares 29"er to mullets but not mullets to full 27.5" and I don't think the latter comparison is anywhere near as favourable.
Having ridden a buddy's long travel 27.5 (SB165) compared to my Megatrail MX (which has 10mm less rear travel & 20mm less front travel but similar geometry), the 27.5 front felt like it got kicked around constantly in chunk and bomb holes. Since there's no issues with butt clearance on the front wheel, the only trade-off I feel that a 29 front is weight. And you're only talking about maybe 100g there total between rim and tire, tops.

The only applications I think that full 27.5 is probably better suited are teenagers / adults <5'4" and is doing tricks in the air, and the number of people who need that are a tiny percentage of the biking population.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Having ridden a buddy's long travel 27.5 (SB165) compared to my Megatrail MX (which has 10mm less rear travel & 20mm less front travel but similar geometry), the 27.5 front felt like it got kicked around constantly in chunk and bomb holes. Since there's no issues with butt clearance on the front wheel, the only trade-off I feel that a 29 front is weight. And you're only talking about maybe 100g there total between rim and tire, tops.

The only applications I think that full 27.5 is probably better suited are teenagers / adults <5'4" and is doing tricks in the air, and the number of people who need that are a tiny percentage of the biking population.
Nah.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,419
4,643
Australia
I'm really confused at why mullets have taken off so much. They don't seem to be that much better than a modern 27.5". I understand 29"ers for full plow bikes but why the compromise, may as well go one way of the other.
I've got both a dual 29er trailbike (transition smuggler) and a dual 27.5" Enduro bike (NP Mega). The 29er front wheel definitely has a few benefits for blindly sending off things and landing in chunk or bombholes. They also tend to feel calmer at speed, as if they "slow down" the trail even at the same pace or faster. If you're silly enough to think racing is a good way to waste a bunch of money and time, and get upset if you don't go home with any new silverware, it can be very tempting to go the 29er option just for race days. I'd say they're a tiny bit safer when you're super tired too, just less likely to wash out or get hooked up on edges when you're fatigued and basically a passenger on the bike.

The mullet thing only really comes into it for short legged people who like to ride over the back of the bike I think. Just for clearance. I don't think a mullet is actually faster than dual 29 if you can fit on one fine.

If you're not racing and just doing it for fun just grab whatever. The Transition Scout is a pretty awesome little bike. I had one of the OG ones (nothing like the new one) and loved it, a brief spin on the new one makes me want another. The dual 27.5 bikes are still way nicer through tight, quick alternating turns and for rut bashing fun.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,426
5,342
UK
27.5 bikes are still way nicer through tight, quick alternating turns
Could you imagine how much nicer a bike with a further 1.5" reduction in wheel diameter might feel through those?
We can but dream, eh?
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,419
4,643
Australia
Could you imagine how much nicer a bike with a further 1.5" reduction in wheel diameter might feel through those?
We can but dream, eh?
I just got a new 26" bike AND it has a 20mm thru axle and its coil sprung. Ridemonkey will be happy.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,902
633
I've got both a dual 29er trailbike (transition smuggler) and a dual 27.5" Enduro bike (NP Mega). The 29er front wheel definitely has a few benefits for blindly sending off things and landing in chunk or bombholes. They also tend to feel calmer at speed, as if they "slow down" the trail even at the same pace or faster. If you're silly enough to think racing is a good way to waste a bunch of money and time, and get upset if you don't go home with any new silverware, it can be very tempting to go the 29er option just for race days. I'd say they're a tiny bit safer when you're super tired too, just less likely to wash out or get hooked up on edges when you're fatigued and basically a passenger on the bike.

The mullet thing only really comes into it for short legged people who like to ride over the back of the bike I think. Just for clearance. I don't think a mullet is actually faster than dual 29 if you can fit on one fine.

If you're not racing and just doing it for fun just grab whatever. The Transition Scout is a pretty awesome little bike. I had one of the OG ones (nothing like the new one) and loved it, a brief spin on the new one makes me want another. The dual 27.5 bikes are still way nicer through tight, quick alternating turns and for rut bashing fun.
Except for the "really comes into it for short legged people" I'm with you. I'm tall and lanky and can fit on a 29er just fine, but since I'm not racing at all, IDGAF about times. I just like the 29ers ability to handle off camber chunder, launching blind into holes, and general grip. And I like a 27.5's ability to actually be fun, slide the back end around, reposition and fine tune, move it around in the air, and generally let me ride a little looser on the bike. Seems like the mullets I've bounced around on fit that bill decently, although it still seems like there's some geo tweaking to be worked out.