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Mullet Madness

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
971
956
Yeah, I'm aware that you can theoretically run the offset bushings in reverse, at least on frames where the shock isn't rotating. But I don't have any personal experience with how long the bushings stay oriented like that, so wouldn't want to list a frame as "mullet capable" contingent upon reversed offset bushings.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,985
1,680
Northern California
Yeah, I'm aware that you can theoretically run the offset bushings in reverse, at least on frames where the shock isn't rotating. But I don't have any personal experience with how long the bushings stay oriented like that, so wouldn't want to list a frame as "mullet capable" contingent upon reversed offset bushings.
I've run them on quite a few bikes. How tight the interface with the bushing is matters, but generally every time I've pulled a shock off with those bushings they've migrated to wherever the compression forces have pushed them. I've never tried to analyze how quick it happens, but I'd guess one run would do it.
 
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Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
971
956
Good luck removing that bushing later.
Why? Green loctite is used for seating bearings on frames where the tolerances aren't great (cough, Transition). I swapped the bearings on my Sentinel (which had them set with green) twice with no issue. Just gotta use the right press.
 

Fifty Fast

Chimp
May 7, 2021
5
3
Yeah rotated bushings looks like a possibility. LBS who pressed it in for me says they can do a small pinch bolt while some on the Loam Ranger thread recommend the more technical scotch key (with loctite) to keep it from spinning.
I’m running the Machine with an air and a coil so will try it on one and see if the 2mm additional length and/or 15mm lower bb make a difference in rock strikes.
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,205
579
Durham, NC
So, after spending a fair bit of time on 29 setup then mullet then back to 29 and now mullet again, I can say I have a strong preference for the mullet. 29 is fun if you're just hauling ass and not jumping/turning much, but the mullet is better everywhere else. All hail the mullet.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,485
802
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
So, after spending a fair bit of time on 29 setup then mullet then back to 29 and now mullet again, I can say I have a strong preference for the mullet. 29 is fun if you're just hauling ass and not jumping/turning much, but the mullet is better everywhere else. All hail the mullet.
What, if anything, do you think it gives up to full 27.5? You guys convinced me to only get a 27.5 rear wheel for my DH bike and not both sizes to try. At the last second I decided to only get a 29" front wheel, rather than both front sizes. I thought I might prefer the 27.5 for jumping and park riding. Am I gonna miss anything?
 

Fifty Fast

Chimp
May 7, 2021
5
3
Yeah, I'm aware that you can theoretically run the offset bushings in reverse, at least on frames where the shock isn't rotating. But I don't have any personal experience with how long the bushings stay oriented like that, so wouldn't want to list a frame as "mullet capable" contingent upon reversed offset bushings.
Give me a few hard rides and I'll update you. Its a really small shock mount with a 8mm bolt
It's not an option for frames with threaded BBs, but for those using press-fit you could use an eccentric BB to raise the bottom bracket.

Threaded on the Machine so my last option if I REALY like the mullet is shorter 165 cranks
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,883
1,231
SWE
It's not an option for frames with threaded BBs, but for those using press-fit you could use an eccentric BB to raise the bottom bracket.

I didn't know about that one, but trickstuff has one for threaded bb with +/- 3 mm stroke

Edit: the wheelsmfg.com excentric bracket is for BB30 https://wheelsmfg.com/bb30-tech which is not the same as press-fit BB86 or BB92 https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-tech
 
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Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,485
802
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Hmm, I’m looking for an eccentric that will work with a PF92, any suggestions?
Sure. You just replace the spindle with a #2 pencil and the bearings with teflon tape. That should buy some adjustment room.

Depending on the crankset and who you're talking to, PF92 doesn't even have enough room for a non-eccentric bottom bracket.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
53,881
19,611
Sleazattle
I did a 7mm offset eccentric BB30 deal on my old SB5. Had to be extremely careful not to crush the BB shell as it wasn't design to take a lot of clamping force. Used heavy duty Loctite bearing retaining to stop it from rotating. Loctite primer was required to get it to work with a carbon frame. All in all it worked well, no doubt that warranties were voided.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
22,728
11,054
In the cleavage of the Tetons
For me it’s all about the rollover up front over the chunk, and the decreased ass-buzzing.
I would probably run 27.5 if I was in the park a bunch (depending on how tech-gnar the adjacent DH trails are to the flow/jump trails). It would also depend on what bike, I guess?
I’ll circle back on this in late June or so.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,545
1,034
La Verne
Repeating an earlier question that didn't get answered:
For a bike park riding and jumping, am I making a mistake going mullet instead of full 27.5?
As someone with about 2 hours of mullet experience on a 27.5 bike I've had for 3 years
I would say...

Try and keep the front wheel light.

The extra heft rotating further from center increased the gyro feel leading to a less playful front end.

If you do that I think there won't be much downside.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,755
4,628
Champery, Switzerland
Repeating an earlier question that didn't get answered:
For a bike park riding and jumping, am I making a mistake going mullet instead of full 27.5?
2 sets of wheels is what you need for that bike.
For jump trails like Vinkline or Aline I definitely prefer full 27. For everything else mullet and when I want to try and go faster than my talent permits then I do the full 29. Whips and tables are easier to crack with smaller wheels.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,485
802
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
2 sets of wheels is what you need for that bike.
For jump trails like Vinkline or Aline I definitely prefer full 27. For everything else mullet and when I want to try and go faster than my talent permits then I do the full 29. Whips and tables are easier to crack with smaller wheels.
Thanks, I'll add a front 27.5 to he order. I'm planning to run the 44mm offset Fox 40 crowns and figure that should work for both front wheels.
 

Fifty Fast

Chimp
May 7, 2021
5
3
Yeah, I'm aware that you can theoretically run the offset bushings in reverse, at least on frames where the shock isn't rotating. But I don't have any personal experience with how long the bushings stay oriented like that, so wouldn't want to list a frame as "mullet capable" contingent upon reversed offset bushings.
Pre-installation of the offset bushings put the bike at 338 BB 63 deg HTA and 76-77deg HTA (using iphone app mind you so no decimal places for the angles)
Post installation puts the bike at 340 BB still 63 HTA and 77 HTA
And current rear wheel is wearing e13 2.4 rubber. Wont that fit the "not too screwed up" conversion category?

Initial rides still but the gap where the bushing sits (approx 4mm allen width) hasnt changed but may need to slam the stem to get pressure on the front wheel (5mm spacer now). Will report more when I've tackled some long uphills and more steeps.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
971
956
Pre-installation of the offset bushings put the bike at 338 BB 63 deg HTA and 76-77deg HTA (using iphone app mind you so no decimal places for the angles)
Post installation puts the bike at 340 BB still 63 HTA and 77 HTA
And current rear wheel is wearing e13 2.4 rubber. Wont that fit the "not too screwed up" conversion category?

Initial rides still but the gap where the bushing sits (approx 4mm allen width) hasnt changed but may need to slam the stem to get pressure on the front wheel (5mm spacer now). Will report more when I've tackled some long uphills and more steeps.
Probably. ;) BB height and ST look sweet. HT is in the realm of personal preference / trails you ride. I don't ride stuff consistently steep enough for a 63 to feel good, 64 feels much more well rounded to me. BTW, the app "Clinometer" on iPhone will give you decimal places for angles.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,545
1,034
La Verne
So.
Upon returning to full 27.5 from mullet land.

I used my 44mm offset csu (from my 27.5) with the 29 lowers and I whacked an airshaft down from 160 to 140mm to preserve geometry. Putting the 29 with the 44mm offset was noticeable had that MOAR TRAILZ feel. It was there but it wasn't super prominent but felt natural.

Going back to 27.5 wheel, 27.5 lowers and the 160 airshaft. Holy Fook the LEZ TRAILZ is extra apparent like all up in my face. Its like seeing something that can't be unseen. Three rides and I can't shake the feeling that Moar Trailz would feel, Moar better.

I think I would like a 37mm offset csu with the 27.5 wheel.
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,883
1,231
SWE
So.
Upon returning to full 27.5 from mullet land.

I used my 44mm offset csu (from my 27.5) with the 29 lowers and I whacked an airshaft down from 160 to 140mm to preserve geometry. Putting the 29 with the 44mm offset was noticeable had that MOAR TRAILZ feel. It was there but it wasn't super prominent but felt natural.

Going back to 27.5 wheel, 27.5 lowers and the 160 airshaft. Holy Fook the LEZ TRAILZ is extra apparent like all up in my face. Its like seeing something that can't be unseen. Three rides and I can't shake the feeling that Moar Trailz would feel, Moar better.

I think I would like a 37mm offset csu with the 27.5 wheel.
Do I understand right that you kept the A2C the same and the offset the same between both setups?
If it is so, you also slackened you HA when running the bigger wheel since going from 27.5 to 29" raises the hub around 20mm.
It did indeed increase the trail both because of bigger wheel and slacker HA
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,545
1,034
La Verne
Do I understand right that you kept the A2C the same and the offset the same between both setups?
If it is so, you also slackened you HA when running the bigger wheel since going from 27.5 to 29" raises the hub around 20mm.
It did indeed increase the trail both because of bigger wheel and slacker HA
I took 20mm travel out. 20mm lower a2c
 
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HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,578
2,001
Seattle
^To accomplish this sub-44mm offset on a 2021 Fox 40 for use with a 27.5" wheel I should ask for "2020 crowns"?
The older crowns get you to 41mm offset on a 2021 40. Variable offset crowns didn't show up until 2021, and come in 44 / 48 /52 /56 (why) versions.
 
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Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,883
1,231
SWE
I took 20mm travel out. 20mm lower a2c
I get it now!

Going for 37mm offset will also shorten your front centre / wheelbase. Whether if it is a good thing or not is up to you. An angleset can put your front axle where it was and give you even moar trailz :headbang:
 

Floor Tom

Monkey
Sep 28, 2009
288
55
New Zealand
So.
Upon returning to full 27.5 from mullet land.

I used my 44mm offset csu (from my 27.5) with the 29 lowers and I whacked an airshaft down from 160 to 140mm to preserve geometry. Putting the 29 with the 44mm offset was noticeable had that MOAR TRAILZ feel. It was there but it wasn't super prominent but felt natural.

Going back to 27.5 wheel, 27.5 lowers and the 160 airshaft. Holy Fook the LEZ TRAILZ is extra apparent like all up in my face. Its like seeing something that can't be unseen. Three rides and I can't shake the feeling that Moar Trailz would feel, Moar better.

I think I would like a 37mm offset csu with the 27.5 wheel.
I get this sort of feeling all the time, a change just feels natural and fine and you think 'yeah this feels different but whatever' and then you go back to your old setup and holy shit it feels bad. I have had this with bar width, suspension setup, fork offset and wheel size. It's nice to go back and get the confirmation that you are moving in the right direction for your setup.