Mullet Madness
- Thread starter Andeh
- Start date
Yeah buddy was going to buy my green 951 but had to try and recoup cost for the Evo...he's looking for an uzzi now
Kind of matches em...lol stuff is interchangeable...both have fr1950 hoops, ex511 fronts , fox springs, fox forks, carbon bars,....but the Evo kicks ASS..Ran it around a little and it was fast as hell....LOVE 29" FRONT.....
951evo looks sick. Just needs an AXS dropper to tidy shlt up 
Yeah the fox has been good so far and been abused...I'll look to swap stuff for sure but as it sits that fox post has been handed it's ass. (See what I did there lol)951evo looks sick. Just needs an AXS dropper to tidy shlt up
I'll look at what a axs is now.
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Update: Oh hell no...$800 for a dropper post, I'll leave that for the dentists....
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I don't know if it has been said but GT Force 29 are really good candidates for mullet converstion. Been riding mine with a 27.5 back wheel since I got it in April and with the flip chip in the high position it has been a pleasure to ride. Pedals occasionally strike the ground but nothing really problematic and the frame has been mostly able to handle a full season of enduro and bike park.
I need a little more time on the 29/27.5 maybe steepen my HA a degree...play with it on the 951 which I use for trail and play...bit for DH hands down the 29" mullet set up is a WINNER....
Trail I think a 29 front just takes a smidge of readjusting riding style..the front isn't as quick in nimble stuff
Trail I think a 29 front just takes a smidge of readjusting riding style..the front isn't as quick in nimble stuff
Mine is still mulleted, going from a Z1 to a Mezzer made a million times more difference than a change in wheel size, bigger wheel is quicker though.
They still make 'em, was pretty much the only thing I could find with a leather cover and had some decent height to clear an E-Virb dropper, couldn't stand the tap tap tap noise from my previous seat as it hit the head of the post.
Updated.
And yeah, I'm loving my mulleted Megatrail. I've beaten I think every one of my old PRs that I set on a full 29 (Sentinel), so it's definitely not slower for me, and it just handles better. I've got a buddy who picked up the new Bronson and is loving it also. He's a tall fella, normally rides XL frames, and didn't like the Megatower and Hightower when he tried them, but really likes the handling of the Bronson MX.
Hmmm, I honestly can't recall. I don't think so, but if I did it was no more than 5mm. But I did make the fork a little bit softer (like 18% sag instead of 15%). I wouldn't associate that change with the mullet setup per say, more to get quicker cornering. Maybe that's what SC is trying to say? Tweak bike setup to get more weight on front to get that tighter cornering feel that people are looking for in a mullet.
I see where this is going:
- 29er frame with 29" wheels -> mullet -> 27.5" wheels
- fun factor: - ----------------------------------------------> +
I skipped the mullet phase.
- 29er frame with 29" wheels -> mullet -> 27.5" wheels
- fun factor: - ----------------------------------------------> +
I skipped the mullet phase.
They talk about the lower axle height of the rear wheel shifting weight rearward -
I've been riding 29ers for a while- what will feel different with MX? Any setup tips?
29" bikes provide a ton of front wheel grip- this is partially due to the front wheel itself, but also due to the axle height of the rear wheel which works to keep the front end weighted. This creates a natural position on lower-angle terrain but requires body position and/or setup adjustments to achieve any sort of rearward bias.
On an MX bike, the bias is more rearward. This gives a very natural feeling on steep descents, but requires some body position and setup consideration for a balanced feel on flatter terrain. Compared to a 29er, a slightly lower handlebar and a more forward-biased suspension setup will make an MX bike feel more like what you're used to. Additionally, using the Hi BB setting will lend itself to a more front biased feel. Using these tuning parameters will help you find the sweet spot for your terrain and preference.
Depends…are you double-hopping over logs and big chunky rocks a lot?
Higher than what?
what is that?
I don’t really know the name for it, but placing your front wheel on an obstacle (tree, rock, alcoholic bum) and thrusting the rear of the bike up and over said obstacle. Basic old school maneuver, but is easier with a tall BB, ala Eastern Woods Research, beast of the East, and other ‘trialsy’ stock mountain bikes back inna day.
Footnote: see ‘bash guards’ for historical context.
28t chainrings have mostly eliminated the need…
Footnote: see ‘bash guards’ for historical context.
28t chainrings have mostly eliminated the need…
Higher BB, no, but higher position to get more grip on the front wheel from the geo change yes.
The theory about having the lower axle lower than the BB was my theory for a while to explain why my Force 297 was so much fun and easy to manual, bunny and such. Until I decided to buy a Race BMX (20") to complement my Cuiser (24"). For those not familiar with Race BMX, surprisingly, whether you have 20 or 24" wheels the BB height, TT, all angles are identical. CS are usually few mm longer on the 24" version but that is all. With a BB height identical it places it much higher compared to the wheel axles on the 20" while it is below wheel axle on the 24". Following the BB/Rear Axle theory it was obvious that the BMX would be super easy to manual compared to the 24" ... and it wasn't ! Even if the BMX has slightly shorter stays which is another well accepted attribute which should help with manuals and playfulness.
Since, I decided to measure Bar height and realized that it is higher on my cruiser than on my BMX. So my new theory to explain why mullets are fun is because it drops the BB while keeping a high stack height. Way too often stack height is kept as low as possible even on bigger bikes, my 2019 Force (27.5) was zero fun and horrible to manual, and going with 4cm of spacers under the stem is a sin I am not willing to commit.
Your theory about Front/Back weight bias is probably what explains everything and bar position is seemingly what has the biggest impact on weight shift, more than CS or BB/Axle position which is a bit of a shock to me to be fair.
For the sake of "science" I need to put my current bike in full 29er while keeping BB/Bar height constant and see if it keeps the behaviour I appreciate. Also since the new Force Carbon won't have a flip chip, MX won't be an option so I want to know if I can live with it before having it delivered.
Trials lads call it wheel switching.
from what little I know on geo and from riding a lot of BMX, I find BB height affects more spinning and leaning the bike while bar height and front center stuff like bar angle, spacers etc is your leverage for hops and manuals. Obvs thats super simplyfying, bar to BB distance and BB height to bar height etc is all important I find, and very personal preference and depends on riding style.
I've come to the same conclusion as you too, I love sky high bars ! I run very little sag on my DH bike to keep the BB high so it leans a bit nicer but had to rise the front to get some pop back.
Actually, the BB sits higher in relation to the rear axle when compared to the pure 29" builds. One of the most common objections to lower BBs @jonKranked usually posts here goes by this exact argument: lower BBs are detrimental to manualling/wheeling (practically every single BMX bike has its BB sitting higher than their axles).
Following your line of thought, it appears it's the relative BB height/drop and not its absolute height/drop what ends up being beneficial towards a playful bike.
Handling comparison between the 3 wheelsize options of the new Spectrals - https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-wheel-size-275-mullet-29-canyon-spectral/
"For the 27.5″ Spectral, the flowier, the better. It feels most comfortable on smooth trails with rollers and jumps, where it’s sure to put the biggest grin on the rider’s face. The “small” Spectral shows how well it’s balanced when riding through open corners and berms and is easy to control, offering the most intuitive handling of all three bikes. Not only beginners but also experienced riders benefit from this as it allows them playfully to push the bike’s limits, cutting corners to make them even tighter.
In contrast to the 29″ Spectral, which feels equally balanced through corners, the 27.5″ bike prefers manualling out of berms and encourages you to style it up over every roller. The mullet bike can’t keep up with the other two, primarily through open corners on slippery terrain, requiring a skilled rider. You must actively shift your weight forward to generate enough grip on the front wheel. Those who can do this will be rewarded for their effort, especially through berms. If you like, you can easily break out the rear wheel of the mullet bike, getting it to drift."
"For the 27.5″ Spectral, the flowier, the better. It feels most comfortable on smooth trails with rollers and jumps, where it’s sure to put the biggest grin on the rider’s face. The “small” Spectral shows how well it’s balanced when riding through open corners and berms and is easy to control, offering the most intuitive handling of all three bikes. Not only beginners but also experienced riders benefit from this as it allows them playfully to push the bike’s limits, cutting corners to make them even tighter.
In contrast to the 29″ Spectral, which feels equally balanced through corners, the 27.5″ bike prefers manualling out of berms and encourages you to style it up over every roller. The mullet bike can’t keep up with the other two, primarily through open corners on slippery terrain, requiring a skilled rider. You must actively shift your weight forward to generate enough grip on the front wheel. Those who can do this will be rewarded for their effort, especially through berms. If you like, you can easily break out the rear wheel of the mullet bike, getting it to drift."
Not sure what you're talking about, I have no objections to low bb heights.
What you're talking about is bb drop vs BB rise, ie the relation between the rear axle and the bb. And yes BMX bikes all have bb rise.
following up on my post (as I was on my phone).
more BB drop = harder to manual, but more stable at speed. not impossible to manual, just not as easy.
bb rise = easier to manual, also easier to loop out. trials bikes have bb rise too.
more BB drop = harder to manual, but more stable at speed. not impossible to manual, just not as easy.
bb rise = easier to manual, also easier to loop out. trials bikes have bb rise too.
I didn't mean to say you were objecting low BBs. Your last post explains it in much more simple terms.
(seems like we both were writing at the same time, sorry)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I recall you saying the lower the BB, the harder a bike is to manual/wheelie, and stating BMX bikes are easier to manual given they have BB rise instead.
Again, maybe I'm wrong (although on a different matter) and the BB's relative drop to the rear axle in the mullet bikes makes them more wheelable/manualable (are these even words?).
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yea, ease of manualling is partially driven by the height of the BB in relationship to the rear axle (above or below, and how much). its be no means the only factor, i'd probably argue the overall length of the bike and chainstays is probably more of a factor.
When putting a 27.5 on my Force 29 it definitely dropped the BB even if I put the flip chip in High. The stack remained the same tho.
I guess absolute BB height has its importance if the wheelbase is short enough but again BMX vs Cruiser shows that if you keep geo the same including BB height and have one bike with BB over axles and low bar (my BMX) and the other with BB under axles and high bar (my Cruiser) you end up with the first being super front heavy while the second one is much easier to pull. And keep in mind that the Cruiser as slightly longer CS and 24" wheels against 20" so 2 factors that are supposed to give a more playful bike if you listen to media or bike brands advocating for short CS.
I should be able to figure this out for myself soon enough when I get a new bar for the BMX or I take the time to swap my Force back wheel to 29.
Yes, in relation to the 29/29 combo, te BB drops. But if you trace the angle between the rear axle, the horizontal line traversing it, and the BB, the BB sits higher relative to the the rear axle in the mullet combo. I'm unable to draw anything right now but I'll work on some numbers and probably a diagram when I get the time.
I got around to reading the EnduroMTB comparison of the 3 Spectrals. While I roll my eyes heavily at them proclaiming that 29 is the best (while also noting that their testers have an average height of 1.85m / 6'1"), I do notice that the mullet does seem to corner a little bit different than full 29. It feels like the rear wheel wants to cut corners a little bit more. I'm not sure about whether a more forward weight bias is favorable because of something about the mullet, or just due to modern geometry. But when you adopt that coupled with the rear wheel's tendency to cut, you can really snake some tight lines. Likewise, once your weight's a bit forward like that, it becomes a lot easier to initiate a rear drift with a flick of the rear brake.
I've watched a handful of videos of pro riders experimenting with mullet setups. In almost every case, they get essentially the same times back to back riding either mullet or 29. But the shorter riders universally feel more comfortable on the mullet setup. Which to me makes the conclusion really obvious: if the times are the same, ride the bike that you're more comfortable and confident on.
I've watched a handful of videos of pro riders experimenting with mullet setups. In almost every case, they get essentially the same times back to back riding either mullet or 29. But the shorter riders universally feel more comfortable on the mullet setup. Which to me makes the conclusion really obvious: if the times are the same, ride the bike that you're more comfortable and confident on.
I understand since this was the base of my explanation for why the bike was so easy to manual. For most of the season I didn't look any further but the BMX and its positive BB drop definitely threw a wrench in this theory.
The latest Downtime podcast does the same comparison. It's well worth a listen. Two of the riders in the end said they'd opt for the Mullet option and one said the full 29er. They were all impressed by the dual 27.5 despite initial misgivings about it.
