Mullet Madness
- Thread starter Andeh
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What are you planning for the Megatrail suspension? 160 or 170 fork, trail vs. gravity, etc?
Most fair comparison to the Bronson would be 160 fork & trail mode. 170 & gravity would be a plow version.
150 fork and short stroke the shock to 60mm in trail mode. I want the geo as close to the Smash with a 150 as I can get it.
I was going to recommend the DT podcast for a review of the new Canyon options. Felt like a great down to earth and unbiased review, with a mix of input from 3 different riders. Their final review of the 27.5 was interesting considering initial and mid test thoughts. The new Spectral is interesting in that they have preserved the geo across wheel sizes. I really liked the compact geo of the Ripmo AF I was on, and would have kept that bike if it weren’t for some design issues I wanted to get away from. Having the bigger wheels but still have the ability to have a playful bikes was awesome. The 1 caveat to short chain stays with a bigger wheel is the back wheel tends to break away really easily. Regarding mullets and chainstays, there was that article posted on RM a couple months ago, with the fella who tried a very wide range of geo settings using mutators, and testing a mullet setup. His take away was that a mullet needs to have longer chainstays to prevent back wheel from letting go too easily. The above discussions on BB height, rise and drop is interesting. I really like to manual and have been curious about what affects the ease of getting the wheel up. Long stays is obvious but mention how the BB numbers affects lifting the front is worth noting.
The pricing on the Spectrals are really good, and they are offering them in Al, pity the mullet is CF. Not sure about durability, I have seen a snapped Canyon (granted the dude reversed it into his garage) and those tube walls be thin.
They're very close but there are still a few differences (432 vs 437mm CS depending on rear wheel size) so I wonder how much of the "29er stability" that keeps coming up is a factor of the longer CS and fork offset figures.
Yeah the pricing is sharp and they look pretty good too. Not sure about durability but got a few buddies riding the Strives with no frame issues (those shapeshifter things are another story).
Still both the new Canyon and YT models look damn good imo
I purchased the frame second hand in pretty new condish. As part of prepping the bike for riding I did a full bolt torque and found the threads for non-drive side upper link bolt were stripped. Worked with the seller to get a new front triangle (took months due the local distro co. dragging their heels). When it arrived I pulled all bolts out, used loctite and torqued to spec. The torque values are pretty low. After a couple of rides the drive side bolt had worked itself completely out (luckily I managed to catch it before it dropped to the ground or it would have been a gonna). Bike was super lively and jumped really really well, but in corners I could feel the rear flexing. Not enough progression and it collects a shit load of mud on all the pivot points. It was not as smooth as I expected through chatter, considering it is a DW link. I seem to get on well with Horst link bikes.
oh, it did seem pretty light, with a Jade coil, and I don’t use light parts. Climbed well and felt quick on flat or undulating pedal sections.
Interesting - rocky mountain slayer is fully convertable!
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OneUp Components on Instagram: "The build that inspires all dream builds. Its ok, we had to pick our jaws up from the floor too when we saw @thomasvanderham ‘s custom Mullet Slayer. "My new Slayer is a dedicated park bike in a custom mullet configuration that took a bit of experimenting to get dialled in. My solution was a longer (9.5x3") shock with an offset bushing that regained the lost BB height and increased the travel a bit. The result is a light and nimble bike park weapon that's fun and fast at the same time." Frame: Rocky Mountain Slayer 29” LARGE in mullet configuration Fork: Fox 38 170mm Shock: Fox Float X2 Bar: OneUp 35mm rise 790mm Stem: OneUp custom Tool: EDC Carrier: Threaded top cap Grips: ODI Saddle: SDG Post: SDG I beam Shifter: Shimano XT Derailleur: Shimano XTR short cage Chain: Shimano XTR Cassette: Shimano XT Chainring: Shimano XT Chainguide: OneUp bashguide Pedals: Shimano Saint Cranks: Shimano XT 165mm Brakes: Shimano XT 4 piston Hubs: Shimano XTR Rims: Stans Flow Front Tire: Schwalbe Magic Mary Rear Tire: Schwalbe Big Betty @margusriga #worklessridemore #getoneup #mtb #mountainbike #mtblife #bike #lovetheride"
oneupcomponents on November 10, 2021: "The build that inspires all dream builds. Its ok, we had to pick our jaws up from the floor too when we saw @thomasvanderham ‘s custom ..."
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Another frame with humongous reach numbers... I like the dual crown compatibility.
So have demoed the mega 297 and the spectral cf8 cllctv mullet.
both are incredible rides. The mega is stiff, feels like a race bike. The spectral is more poppy and fun. Surprisingly doesn’t pedal better up hill considering 15mm less travel. Both phenomenal in the corners, with the nod to the spectral.
i want both!!!!
both are incredible rides. The mega is stiff, feels like a race bike. The spectral is more poppy and fun. Surprisingly doesn’t pedal better up hill considering 15mm less travel. Both phenomenal in the corners, with the nod to the spectral.
i want both!!!!
Ended up meeting Miles and doing some shuttle laps with the guy. Got to oogle his Mullet and shoot the chit. They are really going full tilt on the mullet mania. Aside from the high chainstay weirdness, Miles made enough compelling points that next time I am in Boise I plan on throwing a leg over one. The mullet gravel bike even..
So, I've spent the last year almost exclusively riding a mullet / MX setup (minus 2 days when I borrowed a friend's SB165 27.5 bike). I've been thinking a lot about what I'd do for my next bike, and for most of this year, I assumed it would for sure be another MX. But there's one aspect of them that's been bugging me, and I still haven't gotten over after a year: the difference in wheel path. I know, the rear wheel will always cut in compared to the front wheel. But I swear that it feels like with mixed wheels, that sensation is more pronounced. In some cases, that can be desirable (makes the bike feel like it corners tighter). In loose / dusty conditions, it makes it easier to break the rear end loose and slap into a berm, since the rear end comes in more squared off the the corner. But what I'm noticing when the dirt is good (and it's hard to break the rear free) and I'm riding tight, moderately steep corners, is cornering can feel pretty rough. Even if you set up really wide with the front wheel, the rear feels like it always will take a hard inside line and square off with a jerk. It's really pronounced if there's any sort of ledge on the inside line that isn't there or is a lot smaller on the outside.
Are other people noticing this? I rode with @HAB last week and he mentioned the same thing.
At 5'8", I can ride a full 29 setup (and did for about 2 years before the MX), but I get occasional butt buzz. Not the end of the world, but I also don't miss having a DHR zap my inner thigh. But I'm seriously considering going back to it, just to get tight corners to flow smoother again.
I was wondering if longer chainstays might help it, but I think that'd actually make it worse (front end will progress further through the turn before the rear starts it's arc, causing more square off).
Are other people noticing this? I rode with @HAB last week and he mentioned the same thing.
At 5'8", I can ride a full 29 setup (and did for about 2 years before the MX), but I get occasional butt buzz. Not the end of the world, but I also don't miss having a DHR zap my inner thigh. But I'm seriously considering going back to it, just to get tight corners to flow smoother again.
I was wondering if longer chainstays might help it, but I think that'd actually make it worse (front end will progress further through the turn before the rear starts it's arc, causing more square off).
Just pondering - what rear tyre you using? I wonder if the feeling is exacerbated by a gap in transition traction or something.
Mostly Dissector, but also a lot of time on DHR. Nothing weird. Dissector felt better than DHR in the summer months because it's easier to initiate drift, but still grips pretty well leaned over.
I did a lot of reading into MX setups/conversions last year and if a recall one of the sources was posted on RM. I noticed a couple of comments that the chainstays on. MX setup should in theory be longer than one expects. This is to provide a balanced feel. Basically many riders, myself included, like short chainstays, but this might not be desirable for an MX setup. My mullet has 440mm chainstays which is probably not all that long but at least 5mm longer than any other bike I have owned. I absolutely love riding a mullet, but if I was riding mostly open turns, especially if they are at speed, then a full 29er would be ideal.
Stays on my mullet Commencal Supreme are much longer than the stays on the full 29er version.
edit: 456mm versus 433mm on their current offering as they no longer seem to offer a dedicated 29er version, just the XL's are 29er.
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Same story on my Bronson MX.
I was looking to try and convert my 20/21 Supreme to a mullet. Contacted Commencal to see what could be done and pretty much told, I was shit out of luck. I was curious about this, because the upper shock mount has two positions and was hoping to cheat the system. Front & rear on the mullet are totally different than the 29er. Bummer!
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I would have probably gone for the full 29er if they'd had availability last year when I was buying.
Looking at their page now it looks like you'd be waiting until late summer before they'll even have any DH bikes available.
Looking at their page now it looks like you'd be waiting until late summer before they'll even have any DH bikes available.
Yeah, Bronson was part of why I was thinking of this. I know they made it with a 436 mm CS on a medium, which is about 5mm longer than the Nomad.
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Don't care if it's set up or not for a mullet if it rides better than do it...I'll mullet anything
You should see the wife and the cat!!!
You should see the wife and the cat!!!
Dog is on his own cat occasionally and wife as I stated years ago...she puts a picture of a bike over her face so she gets rode!!!So you are riding the wife, dog and cat as well???
You should see the little mini saddle I have for the cat, little head gear and it adds tiny handle bars to his head...
When I converted my GG to a Megatrail MX, one thing that stood out is the chainstays felt a lot shorter, even though the difference is only 2mm on paper. Conversely the back end of the Bronson MX felt a lot closer to the Smash. It does feel different in berms, although I'm not sure if that's a trait of being a mullet or just different overall geometry. Now that things are finally starting to dry out I can get more berm time to suss that out. The stuff I've been riding through the wet season has been tight/rocky, and the Bronson back end definitely feels more maneuverable than the Smash did in those situations. The tradeoff is it doesn't have quite as much of a locked-in feel on high speed sweeping corners.
Yeah, I took another look at the numbers, which back up what you're feeling. The Megatrail MX is only 433 (I measure 429). Smash is listed as 440, Bronson is 436 for mediums.
I've also noticed (and SC mentions this on their Bronson page) that you need to ride a bit more centered with the right amount of pressure on the front wheel. A really short chainstay length would make doing this a harder, as the sweet spot for the center gets smaller / moves further forward. Riding the Sentinel/Smash and especially the Gnarvana definitely felt more like skiing long skis on fast sweeping corners - really locked in and stable.
When I bought my frame the listed chainstay length on the Smash was 434 and 432 on the Megatrail. I know they updated the geo numbers recently based on different build specs.
Got some time in on bermed trails now that things have dried out. Previous to all the rain I'd felt like the back end was trying to square off in berms. Here's what I've learned -
- Typically when I hop on a bike I ride down the street to get a feel for where my body needs to be to feel I'm centered in the carving radius when I lean a bike over into a turn. That normally becomes my neutral spot.
- On the Bronson MX that spot is a bit towards the rear, however...
- When I get onto a downhill pitch on dirt, it become obvious that I need to weight the front wheel more for traction.
- Having these two traits being on opposite ends of the spectrum is pretty counter to any equally wheel sized bike I've ever owned. I've had bikes where you need to modulate your weight position a lot (ie really short chainstay bikes), but this felt different.
- Best explanation I've heard for this is on the SC website, where they state it's due to the rear axle being lower than the front axle
Anyways, since I've adapted to this over the past couple of months cornering in berms feels normal again. I don't feel like the rear is trying to square off all the time; I just need to be in the front-seat.
- Typically when I hop on a bike I ride down the street to get a feel for where my body needs to be to feel I'm centered in the carving radius when I lean a bike over into a turn. That normally becomes my neutral spot.
- On the Bronson MX that spot is a bit towards the rear, however...
- When I get onto a downhill pitch on dirt, it become obvious that I need to weight the front wheel more for traction.
- Having these two traits being on opposite ends of the spectrum is pretty counter to any equally wheel sized bike I've ever owned. I've had bikes where you need to modulate your weight position a lot (ie really short chainstay bikes), but this felt different.
- Best explanation I've heard for this is on the SC website, where they state it's due to the rear axle being lower than the front axle
Anyways, since I've adapted to this over the past couple of months cornering in berms feels normal again. I don't feel like the rear is trying to square off all the time; I just need to be in the front-seat.
I wonder if some of the "weight the front" effect improving the handling is due to effectively steepening the head angle and shortening the wheelbase - therefore bringing the FC closer to the RC.
I did get a quick ride in today before dinner, and played around with aggressively weighing the front on some of those tight bermed corners that I've notice felt squared off before. It seemed to help - I'll keep messing around with that this weekend.
I did get a quick ride in today before dinner, and played around with aggressively weighing the front on some of those tight bermed corners that I've notice felt squared off before. It seemed to help - I'll keep messing around with that this weekend.
Lower the bar a tit hair to balance this a bit more if you don’t like having to load the front tire. I like a 50mm stem and a slightly lower bar to weight the front tire more. Sometimes I need to go up a spring rate in the back too.
Yeah, I thought about dropping the bar a half spacer to pull my weight forward. I don't have a 50mm stem on hand, but maybe I'll try that. When I rode a friend's bike with a 50, it definitely felt like it pulled my weight more over the front axle (in a bad way on his bike). I've tried going up a spring rate and it just feels wrong (it puts me at like 25% sag).
Yeah, if going up a spring rate was too much then I would try a 50mm stem (head angle is now slacker) to get some weight on the front tire for cornering. You loose a bit of reach when going mullet so sometimes a longer stem gets the balance back.
I concur, I went from a 35 stem to a 50, and dropped 5mm down on the handlebars after 4 or 5 mullet rides. Seemed to help. All I can say (dick-swing here) is that on my very first mullet ride on my local trails, I got a KOM on a little section I had been working on for years that still stands. (Back to back tight turns)
There is something to it, for sure.
There is something to it, for sure.
Been going over all this on the other bike I'm mulleting due to being a different use and mullet. Grabbed a 60mm i9 stem and have 2 springs. Thought about Angleset to bring it in a smidge but I think if it sits a bit higher static and over the bars a smidge I'll be able to sit at or on front end for climbs and trails...
What I haven't had a chance to address yet is flip stem to drop bars a smidge, just got lowers In from fox for 36. I'll slap em on and see where weight sits on it..
What I haven't had a chance to address yet is flip stem to drop bars a smidge, just got lowers In from fox for 36. I'll slap em on and see where weight sits on it..
Considering I run a 2.4r and a 2.5WT up front - my back tire is marginally smaller diameter and width. I've always set my bikes up this way since I rode BMX when I was a kid. Could it be the mullet secret sauce?
No just oddball tires!!!
A true mullet is business up front and party on rear....that's just a yuppie...
Smaller wheel in back and larger wheel in front. Even though the rims are the same, the rubber creates the variation. I've tried to run matching tires on my bikes but find I prefer the mismatched setup.
There are two main differences with a mullet setup, arse clearance and rotary moment of inertia (assuming identical geo). Given similar rims and tires a 29" setup has about 20% more rotational inertia than a 27.5, so that rear tire would have to be about 320 grams lighter to feel similar. The small difference with a 2.5" vs 2.4" tire would be negligible. Honestly after doing back to back testing with a mullet vs full 29" I could barely tell the difference and most of that was from having a lower slacker geometry.
yuppie! Comes with Generra clothes, a free subscription to Miami Vice and pastel colors...Like a spotty beard, its sporadic fuzz not a beard...
No Joe Dirt going on there...
All smack aside same here I have almost always ran a 2.25 rear 2.5 to 2.6 front of some variation when same size rim and there's always a bit of girth difference between front and rear.. I agree it seems to ride better a little less heft on back end...