[62kona]

I already posted this on another site, but the ridemonkey peeps seem to always be up to date on all the new suspension stuff.
Really excited about this baby. I only have one ride on it so far and am very happy with it. I just turned up the preload a little, turned in 4 clicks of compression, rebound I'm still messing with. The volume adjust is really tight and I could only get about 2 clicks out of it now. I've been told it should loosten up a bit once it gets ridden more. I think my mechanic said it was 7.4lbs? Bushings feel really tight. Fork feels buttery smooth on the fast rocky trail I took it on.

 

[KavuRider]

Nice!
Digging the looks of the new 'Zocchi stuff.

Running a 66RC3 Ti right now, absolutely love it (previous 'Zocchi was a 2003 Monster T, lol).

Sharp bike too.

 

[Hesh To Steel]

Has marz switched to the boxxer/40 bolt arrangement on their crown, or are you running an aftermarket crown? This might be old news, but I'm usually late to the party. Fork looks great, glad you like it so far.

 

[Deano]

yes 2012 have the boxxer/4bolt standard now

 

[IH8Rice]

yes 2012 have the boxxer/4bolt standard now

and you can buy the upper crown to work with the older models as well.


ill be getting the new V2 cartridge this winter when i send my fork in for inspection and service

 

[Routier07]

Im looking into buying a new 888 this winter, what are the main difference between V.1 of the Evo Damper and V.2??

 

[IH8Rice]

shimmed rebound and more mid stroke support. theres a lot of info in this thread
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/2010-marzocchi-888-evo-tuning-thread-225598/index42/

 

[staike]

What do shimmed rebound mean? Separate hi/low rebound? How will turning the rebound knob affect the rebound differently?

 

[Udi]

What do shimmed rebound mean? Separate hi/low rebound? How will turning the rebound knob affect the rebound differently?

To understand shimmed rebound, the first thing to know is how a simple ported rebound damper works.

Ported rebound = set aperture size for oil to pass through, regardless of shaft speed. This means that the damping will follow a progressive curve, thus as shaft speed increases, damping will increase progressively (rather than increasing linearly or regressively). In practice this tends to mean that you will have to set the rebound adjuster fairly fast to prevent the suspension packing down deeper in the stroke - keeping in mind that when it comes to rebound damping, high shaft speed = deep stroke (due to the spring force). That can lead to a compromise being made where the suspension is too kicky at the start of the stroke or tops out to get the correct response in the mid/deep stroke.

Shimmed rebound = variable aperture size for oil to pass through, depending on shaft speed. As shaft velocity increases, shims bend exposing more port area. This allows for a linear or regressive increase in damping, which allows avoidance of the compromises listed above.

Turning the rebound adjuster (controlling the size of the primary / LS port) will do the same thing as before, except now you can probably run a little more LS rebound without the fork packing up. Or in the case of a user-tunable stack, you can make it do pretty much whatever you want.

I'm sure you knew some of that already, but hopefully it helps.

 

[62kona]

To understand shimmed rebound, the first thing to know is how a simple ported rebound damper works.

Ported rebound = set aperture size for oil to pass through, regardless of shaft speed. This means that the damping will follow a progressive curve, thus as shaft speed increases, damping will increase progressively (rather than increasing linearly or regressively). In practice this tends to mean that you will have to set the rebound adjuster fairly fast to prevent the suspension packing down deeper in the stroke - keeping in mind that when it comes to rebound damping, high shaft speed = deep stroke (due to the spring force). That can lead to a compromise being made where the suspension is too kicky at the start of the stroke or tops out to get the correct response in the mid/deep stroke.

Shimmed rebound = variable aperture size for oil to pass through, depending on shaft speed. As shaft velocity increases, shims bend exposing more port area. This allows for a linear or regressive increase in damping, which allows avoidance of the compromises listed above.

Turning the rebound adjuster (controlling the size of the primary / LS port) will do the same thing as before, except now you can probably run a little more LS rebound without the fork packing up. Or in the case of a user-tunable stack, you can make it do pretty much whatever you want.

I'm sure you knew some of that already, but hopefully it helps.

Wow, thanks for explaining that. I had an idea what it would achieve, but now I now how. Damn, I'm excited now to really start riding it and messing with it.
How many people change their own shim stacks? Do most people send it in to Marzocchi? Can a moto shop do something like that from you?

 

[chillindrdude]

hmm...the 2012 888 evo ti v2 looks pretty good. and weight is on par with the dorado pro.

for 2012 season, thinking about getting boxxer keronite vs 888 evo ti, or just keeping the dorado pro.

i haven't used a marzocchi product since the SuperT, but i hopped around on my friend's 888 evo ti and i was blown away on how smooth and sensitive it was. definitely on par with the dorado at least.

 

[Wa-Aw]

Boxxer Keronite definitely, cause it's keronite....

Marz 888 = 7.4lbs
Dorado Pro = 6.4lbs.

Relevant difference!

Do 888's still have longer axle-to-crown heights than other DH forks?

 

[chillindrdude]

both the dorado pro and 2012 888 evo ti are around 2990grams...

the keronite is nearly 1 lb lighter than both however.

 

[staike]

To understand shimmed rebound, the first thing to know is how a simple ported rebound damper works.

Ported rebound = set aperture size for oil to pass through, regardless of shaft speed. This means that the damping will follow a progressive curve, thus as shaft speed increases, damping will increase progressively (rather than increasing linearly or regressively). In practice this tends to mean that you will have to set the rebound adjuster fairly fast to prevent the suspension packing down deeper in the stroke - keeping in mind that when it comes to rebound damping, high shaft speed = deep stroke (due to the spring force). That can lead to a compromise being made where the suspension is too kicky at the start of the stroke or tops out to get the correct response in the mid/deep stroke.

Shimmed rebound = variable aperture size for oil to pass through, depending on shaft speed. As shaft velocity increases, shims bend exposing more port area. This allows for a linear or regressive increase in damping, which allows avoidance of the compromises listed above.

Turning the rebound adjuster (controlling the size of the primary / LS port) will do the same thing as before, except now you can probably run a little more LS rebound without the fork packing up. Or in the case of a user-tunable stack, you can make it do pretty much whatever you want.

I'm sure you knew some of that already, but hopefully it helps.

Thank you very much, that cleared it up for me. But I don't understand why a ported rebound (like the 10/11 888 EVO) is progressive? Won't it be linear?

 

[Jm_]

Thank you very much, that cleared it up for me. But I don't understand why a ported rebound (like the 10/11 888 EVO) is progressive? Won't it be linear?

Because fluid can only flow through a fixed orofice so fast, then it hydrolocks. The only way it would flow 1:1 is if the orofice is the same size (surface area) as the shaft. Think about it for a few minutes.

 

[Udi]

Think about trying to push oil through a fixed size hole. As you try to push the oil through faster, there will be more resistance - and without extra port area available to open (like in a shimmed damper), you will get closer and closer to spiking. The damping curve with respect to shaft speed increases progressively. You have to understand this is talking about shaft speed, not shaft position (in general terms) - however when it comes to rebound *specifically*, they are virtually the same thing - as spring force increases as you get deeper into the stroke, thus so does shaft speed (in rebound).

That concept applies to any fluid damper. For example in compression it's exactly the same story, however a ported compression damper is almost unacceptable because shaft speeds will go much higher than in rebound (i.e. not limited by spring, instead limited by how fast you run into things) - thus will almost definitely spike / lock up on high speed hits if it has sufficient damping at low to mid speeds.

In the image below, line A shows the (progressive) curve of a typical ported damper. Up until 'stage 2' line B shows the (progressive to regressive) curve of a typical shimmed damper, stage 3 is not so important (this is what happens when the shims hit a plate and cannot open anymore). The regression starts when the shims start opening, exposing greater port area.

Because of what I described, in rebound only, forks like the old MoCo Boxxer and the 10/11 888 EVO could get away with a ported damper. But with a properly tuned shimmed rebound damper (I think the Fox 40 is a good example - Fox tend to have very good factory rebound curves) you can get away with running more rebound damping without packing up.

 

[NoUseForAName]

Do 888's still have longer axle-to-crown heights than other DH forks?

It can't be any longer than the Dorado. Fitting a Dorado jacked my bars about 3/4 of an inch over the Boxxer WC that was on there. Some of that was to ensure bar clearance, some from the A-C height.

 

[bigwheel]

So the 2012 888... shimmed rebound is interesting... does it come with a few different springs, shim kit and detailed valve setup instructions in the manual?

 

[staike]

That would be awesome, but most likely not.

 

[Ithnu]

Apparently in 2012 Hayes (Manitou) is offering an aftermarket kit with instructions on how to do similar work to the Dorado. Maybe Marzocchi will follow suit.

 

[JohnnyC]

Ok so before someone opens up a V2 damper and becomes very disappointed - there is no shimmed rebound for 2012.

The piston has been changed to add a mid-valve which gives a little bit more low speed support and at the same time gives a wider range of rebound adjustment and reduces some of the noise which occasionally developed over time when the fork was transitioning from compression to rebound.

But as Udi described - its not a big deal

 

[baca262]

WHAT?!

i demand pictures, then we'll all know.

 

[IH8Rice]

WHAT?!

i demand pictures, then we'll all know. if this is true, just buy the cheapest 888 model and slap in the avalanche cart, other 888's can be ignored.

except theres also a big weight difference b/w the two models

 

[baca262]

the evo ti, yes - ti spring and bits. the others, i believe its all about the internals now that they all have tapered stanchions and single sided damping. i'll go check out the lineup, brb

edit now that i'm back - i could have sworn i've read somewhere that the entire lineup has gotten tapered stanchion tubes and now i also saw that rcv still seems to use damping rods in both legs... i was being rash. oh well, if you can live with the added weight, i believe that the cr+avy is the best route to go.

 

[gemini2k]

I think many of you would be surprised by how good the CR damper is. It is definitely better than the RC3 and the RC3 evo. Can't say if the v.2 is better or not. But those 888 CR's are ridiculously well priced.

 

[Jm_]

except theres also a big weight difference b/w the two models

What, like 8lbs?

Seriously?

So glad I got the Avalanche cart now...

Now if I can just reshim it for my light ass that used to be much heavier.

 

[baca262]

I think many of you would be surprised by how good the CR damper is.

i was hoping this would be the case since lsc simply can't be made crappier than in the motion control yet people don't seem to be bothered much by that. if it's a shimmed piston or a poppet valve, the 888cr will be the best budget fork ever.

 

[gemini2k]

i was hoping this would be the case since lsc simply can't be made crappier than in the motion control yet people don't seem to be bothered much by that. if it's a shimmed piston or a poppet valve, the 888cr will be the best budget fork ever.

I got 2 days of testing on the 888 CR on a variety of natural DH trails, lets just say it was enough to have me get a 55 CR for the new bike. My next fork will probably be a 888 CR with a Ti spring as well. That price....its so good. Why anyone would get any kind of boxxer over this fork just blows me away.

 

[baca262]

it's the weight bitches. it seems they'd rather have deathgrip/arm-pump than haul around 200-500g extra.

 

[4gnegative]

I got 2 days of testing on the 888 CR on a variety of natural DH trails, lets just say it was enough to have me get a 55 CR for the new bike. My next fork will probably be a 888 CR with a Ti spring as well. That price....its so good. Why anyone would get any kind of boxxer over this fork just blows me away.

Where do you get the ti spring from? I was considering getting one for my evo v2.

 

[William42]

maybe I'm missing something, but what is CR? is that just compression rebound? is that a new marzo fork? lower or higher end then the evo series? or is it an aftermarket damper?

 

[JohnnyC]

maybe I'm missing something, but what is CR? is that just compression rebound? is that a new marzo fork? lower or higher end then the evo series? or is it an aftermarket damper?

CR is the new price point damper used throughout the range with compression and rebound (or lockout for the LR 44 and Corsa). It's a nice and simple cartridge with shimmed compression piston, and uses a spring-backed floating piston to seperate the oil. The nifty thing is the cartridge can self bleed via a port which is only opened when the fork is fully bottomed so any excess oil and air gets pushed out until the oil reaches the correct level and from then on there isn't enough oil to push the piston back up to the port so all sealed up from then on Kinda like a YZ250f.

 

[baca262]

i presumed it was a sealed cart of some kind since the compression adjuster is on top but worried it was pressurized and sealed the 2008 55r style but after i read this i know what my next fork is. now if you can replace the rebound piston with a shimmed one (both rebound and midvalve ) of your own relatively easily, this is all the fork 99% of riders will ever need!

 

[IH8Rice]

What, like 8lbs?

Seriously?

no, like 10lbs. seriously

sorry if you dont think a 1-1.5lb savings is a lot on something that weighs 6.5-8lbs originally.




:troll fed:

 

[gemini2k]

Where do you get the ti spring from? I was considering getting one for my evo v2.

Just call them up. Or PM me if you are really interested.

 

[HAB]

Having recently gone from a Boxxer to a Dorado, my best advice to whoever was looking at a Boxxer Keronite is, in a word, don't. The Boxxer was a pretty good fork. The Dorado is a LOT better. Who cares about the weight, the better damper and spring way more thanHaving recently gone from a Boxxer to a Dorado, my best advice to whoever was looking at a Boxxer Keronite is, in a word, don't. The Boxxer was a pretty good fork. The Dorado is a LOT better. Who cares about the weight, the better damper and spring way more than make up for it. make up for it.

 

[Sandwich]

820 is pretty good for the CR, especially if it's as good as you say it is. I've found in the past that all the adjustments in the world don't make up for a crappy fork. Wholesale could be like $500....

 

[baca262]

Marzocchi 888 38mm 2008 Cartridge Kit



not exactly perfect but: a new rebound piston, rod and cart tube could make this damper very whoop-ass. completely stock you can at least tinker with the compression tune.

 

[c-rod]

OK, I hate to restart an old thread, but I am in the market for a new DH fork. I had been planning on buying the 2012 888 EVO steel version, it seems that the CR is very much worth looking into. From reading through this thread it sounds like the EVO doesn't have a shim stack, is this a Marzocchi sales gimmick? I am kind of at a loss which route to go, I am NOT dropping the 1500.00 $$ for a fork, the 750$$ for the steel version 888 EVO was the route I was going to go. Does any one know the performance of the CR vs the Evo? What about durability? Looking for some opinions, what would you do ?
Thanks

 

[staike]

Yes, the EVO is shimmed. 2012 EVO V2 have a new valving for better mid stroke support. From what I understand, the CR is the 10/11 EVO cartridge turned upside down. I've also heard that the EVO V2 has shimmed rebound, I can't confirm this though.