got saints today, after my code 5 blew up 10 minutes before my race, a nice 275 dollar mistake, but after getting the saint, i like it more, enough to buy a front as well.
My Brake Debate.
- Thread starter Iridemtb
- Start date
Does Whiteface have a significant vertical drop that's any larger than anywhere else you ride? I have a mod I intend to try that might fix the issue, but whether it's effective or not depends on whether or not my theory as to the cause of the problem is correct.
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It's got 2800 vertical, runs vary between 10s and 20s, depending on trail and speed. Most places hover around 1000 in this area, I think, but some are more steep than others. I've had issues at plattekill in the past, but this year, with the saints, it hasn't been bad. I do get howling near the bottom, however. Whiteface just keeps going, and sometimes the lever is too far and sometimes it's too near. Then I take the lift up and it's fine again. I may simply try giving them a better bleed, but 95% of the time it's a non-issue, and I just cope or adjust the lever.
Yeah ok... I'm gonna try a small mod next time I ride and see how it goes, if it makes any improvement I'll let you know. Do you notice any other trends in what happens? I've noticed that if I ride at high speed (50+km/h) for say 30sec without touching the brakes, they always have too much throw, for example.
I can't really speak about too many other anomalies while riding with them...mostly because I just don't think about them, and I haven't spent too much time at mega places. I've only had them up at whiteface once, and everything else here is pretty short...not like whistler.
The things that immediately come to mind are the inconsistent feel in extended runs, sometimes they start to pump up like other brakes but if I let them cool via letting off, they get nervously close to the bar...then back to normal at the bottom or even a few seconds later.
The other is the howling that occurs at the bottom of a brake heavy run. I have no noise from them whatsoever until I'm about 100yds from the bottom...I think it's just heat and it goes away rapidly as they cool.
I'm running alligator sawblade rotors which I'm not thoroughly thrilled with. They're light and cool looking, but they have a stange "pulsing" feel to them and I'm looking for a set of shimano or avid regular round ones. This is probably the cause of my howling issue, but with the amount of ventilation the rotors have, I doubt it's causing the lever "movement" issue.
Have you experienced anything out of the ordinary?
The things that immediately come to mind are the inconsistent feel in extended runs, sometimes they start to pump up like other brakes but if I let them cool via letting off, they get nervously close to the bar...then back to normal at the bottom or even a few seconds later.
The other is the howling that occurs at the bottom of a brake heavy run. I have no noise from them whatsoever until I'm about 100yds from the bottom...I think it's just heat and it goes away rapidly as they cool.
I'm running alligator sawblade rotors which I'm not thoroughly thrilled with. They're light and cool looking, but they have a stange "pulsing" feel to them and I'm looking for a set of shimano or avid regular round ones. This is probably the cause of my howling issue, but with the amount of ventilation the rotors have, I doubt it's causing the lever "movement" issue.
Have you experienced anything out of the ordinary?
Interesting... my Gustavs never had any issues, just solid, predictable performance every time. I run mine at Keystone which has almost 3000 ft. vertical drop. Mine never rub either.
Also... the condition you describe wrt the lever getting too much throw is probably cause by out-of-true rotors pushing the pads back too far. Maybe they only go out of true after they heat up?
Ok, so the levers could be a little closer to the bar, but it doesn't bother me.
my Gustav's howled too with straight and true rotors. they had a lot of power, but with the crappy lever they come with, youd never think that.
the floating caliper is a pretty neat idea that every car has. proprietary adapters is also stupid
the floating caliper is a pretty neat idea that every car has. proprietary adapters is also stupid
I sold those brakes mostly because getting an adapter for a fork like a 40 or boxxer would have cost tons. I think I still have a boxxer adapter floating around somewhere, if anybody needs one.
I don't mean to bag on the gustavs too hard, I didn't get a ton of riding time on them, but they never modulated well for me, the lever feel was awful and had tons of play, the blade was uncomfortable, and one brake weighed almost as much as the two hope DH04s they were replacing.
I'm glad they work for you, but you don't see them too often for a reason, methinks.
I don't mean to bag on the gustavs too hard, I didn't get a ton of riding time on them, but they never modulated well for me, the lever feel was awful and had tons of play, the blade was uncomfortable, and one brake weighed almost as much as the two hope DH04s they were replacing.
I'm glad they work for you, but you don't see them too often for a reason, methinks.
I've been running XT servo wave levers and old Saint Calipers for over a year now in all kinds of conditions with almost no problems. Every now and then I just top off the fluid and they have felt great always. Last month I put on some Goodridge lines after riding a friends bike. I was skeptical at first but they did make a pretty significant difference, they are pricey though.
Juicy 7 lever & body, with Code caliper. Wurks gewd.
Ok, since I already have a thread started about brakes, I thought I shouldn't start another one.
I have decided to go to saint brakes. I have my reasons, and I am buying them. However I don't know what rotor adapters to buy. If someone that owns them could link me up for a 180mm rear i.s. and a 160mm front i.s. that would be great.
Reason I ask is because I am confused whether the brakes come post mount calipers or i.s. calipers.
Thanks guys.
Also, soon as possible response would be great, I am trying to order them tomorrow for the blue mountain race on the 26th and 27th.
I have decided to go to saint brakes. I have my reasons, and I am buying them. However I don't know what rotor adapters to buy. If someone that owns them could link me up for a 180mm rear i.s. and a 160mm front i.s. that would be great.
Reason I ask is because I am confused whether the brakes come post mount calipers or i.s. calipers.
Thanks guys.
Also, soon as possible response would be great, I am trying to order them tomorrow for the blue mountain race on the 26th and 27th.
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new saints are post mount. i run magura adapters.
Even the rear brakes?
I am asking because it is wierd. I call shimano, they say the brakes are post mount only, and they also give me a bad suggestion for the front adapter as I explained I have a fox 40. So that makes them loose a little credibility.
So I am at the shop and I'm looking on QBP and the online site says both are 51mm i.s.
Then I look in the QBP book and the book says the saint brakes are all 74mm post mounts.
So is the QBP site wrong then? That is what I am confused about. A customer service guy was very nice and helpful, but told me I needed a post mount adapter for the front and i.s. adapter for the rear.
I am asking because it is wierd. I call shimano, they say the brakes are post mount only, and they also give me a bad suggestion for the front adapter as I explained I have a fox 40. So that makes them loose a little credibility.
So I am at the shop and I'm looking on QBP and the online site says both are 51mm i.s.
Then I look in the QBP book and the book says the saint brakes are all 74mm post mounts.
So is the QBP site wrong then? That is what I am confused about. A customer service guy was very nice and helpful, but told me I needed a post mount adapter for the front and i.s. adapter for the rear.
Used Avids for way too long like an idiot, had the older Saints for a year and they were great, tried Formulas, powerful but finicky, back on Saints and couldn't be more pleased with them. A little less lever throw would be nice but I think I've got a solution for that.
I can't really define the numbers for sure, but both of my brakes are the standard 74mm or whatever post mount. I bought magura louise adapter in 8"; their boxxer adapter front, and PM to IS rear for my Sunday. Each adapter was $7.98: way better than shimano's $38 front and 15$ rear.
These are the 810 new saint brakes. I can take a photo if necessary, but here:
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/18636-115_MAGQM8-3-Parts-158-Brakes/Disc/Magura-QM-Brake-Adapters.htm
I bought the QM 8 and 9, I believe.
These are the 810 new saint brakes. I can take a photo if necessary, but here:
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/18636-115_MAGQM8-3-Parts-158-Brakes/Disc/Magura-QM-Brake-Adapters.htm
I bought the QM 8 and 9, I believe.
^^^^^^^
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately I need one for my fox 40 as well... I can get the shimano adapters for about $15 or a little less each, so I am willing to pay the price no doubt.
If anyone that runs saints on a 40 and runs a 180mm disc in the rear can help... That would be awesome.
Thanks again sandwich.
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately I need one for my fox 40 as well... I can get the shimano adapters for about $15 or a little less each, so I am willing to pay the price no doubt.
If anyone that runs saints on a 40 and runs a 180mm disc in the rear can help... That would be awesome.
Thanks again sandwich.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190343
Looks like you need a 6" IS to PM front, and a 185mm IS to PM rear. IE numbers 11 and 12...but you'll have to confirm that the goofball germans that make up magura don't indeed mean 180 and not 185....5mm could ruin your day.
Any IS to PM adapters should work.
Looks like you need a 6" IS to PM front, and a 185mm IS to PM rear. IE numbers 11 and 12...but you'll have to confirm that the goofball germans that make up magura don't indeed mean 180 and not 185....5mm could ruin your day.
Any IS to PM adapters should work.
i used my avid code adapters for the shimano saints, the new ones. just take the avid calipers off, and bolt the shimano ones on. we know u have avid adapters.
price, availability, product support, and an arguable improvement in performance immediately come to mind.
Price and availability are big ones for sure. $675 for a pair of formulas... And the $415 I am getting for saint brakes (price match chain reaction).
What if I bend a rotor at a race? Parts are probably easier to come by and get for shimano, whether it be online or in real life.
What if I bend a rotor at a race? Parts are probably easier to come by and get for shimano, whether it be online or in real life.
i take it that neither of you have had a set then. arguable performance? come on.... what other brakes have as good modulation?
i guess depends where you are, we seem to have good support here, nz.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38266
$430USD packed pair.
i guess depends where you are, we seem to have good support here, nz.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=38266
$430USD packed pair.
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Id buy the sevens. ive hear the elixers have had some tech issues. its to be expected in the first iteration.
How about the fact that the One/Mega are the hardest brakes on the market to bleed correctly? They'd be badass brakes if they ever worked.
Modulation is about on a par with any other high end brake, they are an absolute b*tch to bleed, inconsistent lever feel, eat pads like a fat kid loves cake, spares are non existent and laughably expensive, need I go on? There are so many stories with people with the same issues...
After 18 months, mine now live in the bottom of the tool box as spares.
I have heard things like that before so I kind of stayed away from them.
Also, about the pad burning. I was thinking the same thing since they have one piston. Seems as if they would use a smaller pad, and in turn wearing out faster.
But to each their own. I am not a pro, and I just want something reliable that has a decent amount of performance to keep those race weekends fun. Hopefully I bought the right $415 ticket to being happy with some brakes.
Also, about the pad burning. I was thinking the same thing since they have one piston. Seems as if they would use a smaller pad, and in turn wearing out faster.
But to each their own. I am not a pro, and I just want something reliable that has a decent amount of performance to keep those race weekends fun. Hopefully I bought the right $415 ticket to being happy with some brakes.
dude 415 bucks is a great deal. I forget what I paid for mine, but I think it was more. Plus I had to swap the lines since they didn't have "'merican" lever setups available, only moto.
That may have something to do with my fading issues, but I "lever bled" them so there should be no air in the line.
That may have something to do with my fading issues, but I "lever bled" them so there should be no air in the line.
then just stick any other rotor on
rotors are just thin metal discs. I can't remember the last time I ran the same brand rotor and caliper.
Unless there are weird issues with sizing. Not sure if Formula does it, but magura has odd sizing, hope had odd sizing, and a few others. for the most part things are standardized, but still; finding a set of ONE pads in the berkshires is NOT happening...but they've got hayes and shimano and avids.
Formula has odd sizing. They are thicker than other rotors and you will get mega lever throw with non-formula rotors and The One's/Megas. I also found 203mm formula adapters hard to get (they do exist). I have no idea why you would make 200mm and 203mm discs though... but they do.
I have some older XTs on my Demo which work rather well. Like the modulation and the power. I tend to get a little bit of fade at higher altitudes, but haven't bled them in a while. Got a set of new Saints to go on my new Knolly DT build, so will be interesting to see the difference.
They've stopped doing the 200mm from what i've heard and now do the 203 as standard. The rationale behind it was that they had 20mm steps from 160-180-200. The reason why they did 203 was because there are forks that are post mount 203mm right out of the box. These forks couldn't be downsized so they had to make 203mm rotors as well.
Reviving an old thread...
I'm considering getting some new Saints for my (new to me) 08 Demo 8. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I'm looking for confirmation that I can run the Avid rotors with the Saint brakes. If the Saints come with centrelock rotors, I don't want to have to buy new rotors.
Can anyone confirm Avid rotor compatibility with Saint calipers?
Thanks
I'm considering getting some new Saints for my (new to me) 08 Demo 8. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I'm looking for confirmation that I can run the Avid rotors with the Saint brakes. If the Saints come with centrelock rotors, I don't want to have to buy new rotors.
Can anyone confirm Avid rotor compatibility with Saint calipers?
Thanks
Yep, it's fine.
Saints don't come with rotors, afaik, and I run mine with aftermarket alligator rotors. Avids should be fine.
why not just buy a set of juicy 7...try it out..if you feel like you dont have enough power then swap the code calipers on?
thats what im doing atm...my code levers crapped out(one side is leaking and one side is bent)..bought a new set of juicy 7 for dirt cheap and still happy
get some ebc brake pads while you are at it and you will feel like you never run out of power
thats what im doing atm...my code levers crapped out(one side is leaking and one side is bent)..bought a new set of juicy 7 for dirt cheap and still happy
get some ebc brake pads while you are at it and you will feel like you never run out of power
I would say the saints, after owning them for a while now, have almost equilvalent power, if not more powerful than codes. Also, I run avid rotors at the moment myself and have no problems.
You might want to try the juicy 7 thing, but realize if you buy these brakes, you probably won't have many problems (aside from maybe a crappy factory bleed), and you won't waste money initially because you bought brakes that aren't powerful enough. Although I have heard and have friends that run juicy 7 levers with code calipers. I say go saint, I might eventually change my drivetrain from sram too.
You might want to try the juicy 7 thing, but realize if you buy these brakes, you probably won't have many problems (aside from maybe a crappy factory bleed), and you won't waste money initially because you bought brakes that aren't powerful enough. Although I have heard and have friends that run juicy 7 levers with code calipers. I say go saint, I might eventually change my drivetrain from sram too.