[Reactor]

since we're talking materials...

how about some input on magnesium or scandium or another newer used material?

Is the "scandium" really an aluminum alloy typically with yttrium (makes it really strong, but not weld-able) and Scandium (to make it weld-able again)?

Scandium is number 21 on the periodic table of elements. It was discovered over a 120 years ago but gained importance during the Cold War, when Soviet scientists and engineers began experimenting with it as an aluminum alloying element. They discovered that it allowed them to weld aluminums they previously could not.

In the bicycle world, Scandium refers to frame tubing made from an aluminum alloy that includes the element Scandium. In most cases, the tubing base is a high-strength, 7000-series aluminum alloy. Scandium allows a stronger, non-weldable base aluminum alloy to be welded. Previously, these and similar base alloys could only be made into a frame by bonding them together using high-strength adhesives and cast or machined lugs-almost like high-tech tinker toys.

It's one of the best Aluminum alloys, strong with a little bit of give, so the ride isn't so harsh.


Carbon is still in my opinion one of the better building materials. With the proper layout schedule you can tune a bike to be comfortable, strong, and not lose the feel for the road. That being said, some carbon bikes are better than others. My wife's OCR2 is comfortable, but feels a little dead. My Roubaix feels fairly lively, without having my seat biblically know my butt the way most Al bikes seem to want to.

 

[AusRottenVirus]

Ok, first off Specialized makes a much better carbon bike than Trek. The materials they use are better, the production is better, the company is better, and the bikes look much better than any of the Treks. Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

Second, a mulit material frame is a great thing. I ride a Cannondale Six13 and love it. The mixture of Carbon tubes and Aluminum lugs creates a compliant, dampening ride, while still remaining stiff in the most important areas (bottom bracket, head tube, ect.).

And in response to the original post, don't judge carbon after riding an OCR. Giant carbon bikes, along with the rest of their bikes, are some of the worst on the market. Giant honestly has very little to do with the production of their own frames and are of fairly low quality. Try a Specialized or something even more high end like a Look if you want to get a real feel for carbon.

That all my opinion, but what do I know? I'm only a 16 year old DH racer.

 

[sanjuro]

Ok, first off Specialized makes a much better carbon bike than Trek. The materials they use are better, the production is better, the company is better, and the bikes look much better than any of the Treks. Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

Second, a mulit material frame is a great thing. I ride a Cannondale Six13 and love it. The mixture of Carbon tubes and Aluminum lugs creates a compliant, dampening ride, while still remaining stiff in the most important areas (bottom bracket, head tube, ect.).

And in response to the original post, don't judge carbon after riding an OCR. Giant carbon bikes, along with the rest of their bikes, are some of the worst on the market. Giant honestly has very little to do with the production of their own frames and are of fairly low quality. Try a Specialized or something even more high end like a Look if you want to get a real feel for carbon.

That all my opinion, but what do I know? I'm only a 16 year old DH racer.

Where do you get your information?

 

[sanjuro]

Just wondering, but why?

I'm getting a handbuilt steel xc bike with carbon rear seat stays and I'm looking forward to it. However I'd like to hear your argument, it is too late for me to change my mind though, bike is waiting for paint....:love:

The Ito

Steel buyers typically like the lively feel, classic designs, and the durability; while tolerating the heavier weight. Carbon buyers like the light weight and modern shapes; while tolerating the dead feel and the fragility.

I think combining the two diminishes the advantages of each material, by adding weight, changing the feel of steel, limiting tube shapes, and reduced durability.

The only advantage is that you have a slightly lighter steel frame.

I should point out that I think alu/carbon designs are good ideas, combining a less resonate material, alu, with the more resonate carbon. Ti/carbon designs have the advantage of combining very light metal frames with even lighter carbon. However, both designs lack the durability of an all metal frame, even if it is measured by decades, not years.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

Small percentage, like, say 100%?

 

[Mackie]

Giant honestly has very little to do with the production of their own frames and are of fairly low quality.

That's funny. My understanding is that the factory that Giant owns makes not only all of the Giant bikes, but lots of bikes from other popular brands as well.

 

[The Toninator]

Second, a mulit material frame is a great thing. I ride a Cannondale Six13 and love it. The mixture of Carbon tubes and Aluminum lugs creates a compliant, dampening ride, while still remaining stiff in the most important areas (bottom bracket, head tube, ect.).

Thanks for your support.

 

[EricMcFlow]

Ok, first off Specialized makes a much better carbon bike than Trek. The materials they use are better, the production is better, the company is better, and the bikes look much better than any of the Treks. Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

All of the OCLV frames are made in the US, the TCF ones are not. But, thats only one bike in the road line up. Trek makes thier bikes inhouse, even overseas, currious to see if you know who actually makes the Specialized (hint: its not them)

Also, your statment about why the six13 is so great totally contradicts why Spec. says that thier bikes are so nice.

 

[sanjuro]

Ok, first off Specialized makes a much better carbon bike than Trek. The materials they use are better, the production is better, the company is better, and the bikes look much better than any of the Treks. Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

Second, a mulit material frame is a great thing. I ride a Cannondale Six13 and love it. The mixture of Carbon tubes and Aluminum lugs creates a compliant, dampening ride, while still remaining stiff in the most important areas (bottom bracket, head tube, ect.).

And in response to the original post, don't judge carbon after riding an OCR. Giant carbon bikes, along with the rest of their bikes, are some of the worst on the market. Giant honestly has very little to do with the production of their own frames and are of fairly low quality. Try a Specialized or something even more high end like a Look if you want to get a real feel for carbon.

That all my opinion, but what do I know? I'm only a 16 year old DH racer.

I thought this was a joke when I first read it. There were so many errors that I thought he was being sarcastic.

Ok, first off Specialized makes a much better carbon bike than Trek. The materials they use are better, the production is better, the company is better, and the bikes look much better than any of the Treks. Don't buy into Trek's "Made in the USA" advertising. They only produce a small precentage of their frames in the US and it doesn't influence their quality at all.

I am not sure how you quantitatively determined Specialized makes a better carbon frame than Trek. Maybe this document, http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/Witchcraft.pdf, which Specialized testing has determined Specialized bicycles ranked the highest.

It is true that Trek makes only some of their bikes in America, like all their carbon frames. As for their quality, given the amount of testing and feedback from their racers, particularily Lance, I think their carbon frames are pretty good.

Second, a mulit material frame is a great thing. I ride a Cannondale Six13 and love it. The mixture of Carbon tubes and Aluminum lugs creates a compliant, dampening ride, while still remaining stiff in the most important areas (bottom bracket, head tube, ect.).

Actually, I agree with this.

And in response to the original post, don't judge carbon after riding an OCR. Giant carbon bikes, along with the rest of their bikes, are some of the worst on the market. Giant honestly has very little to do with the production of their own frames and are of fairly low quality. Try a Specialized or something even more high end like a Look if you want to get a real feel for carbon.

Well, I have not ridden an OCR, but I do know that Giant R&D laboratory is full of Chinese aerospace scientists. I think they might know something about the use of carbon, and considering they probably make Specialized and Cannondale's carbon frames as well as their own...

 

[ito]

The only advantage is that you have a slightly lighter steel frame.

Ok, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. Thanks.

And I would have responded to the Rottenvirus, but I think you took care of that.

Trek doesn't make 100% of their frames in the US, but they do make a good deal more than most other large manufacturers. Also, most frams do not say "Made in the USA", rather it will say "Designed in the USA". They also hold their factories to very high standards.....though they still manage to bugger things up a little too often

The Ito

 

[AusRottenVirus]

Ok, misinformed. I'll do some research. Sorry about the untrue info and I mean no disrespect to any of the mentioned companies.

 

[AusRottenVirus]

That's funny. My understanding is that the factory that Giant owns makes not only all of the Giant bikes, but lots of bikes from other popular brands as well.

Your right. I was wrong. I was obviously very misinformed. Looks like they also produce a large number of others frames.