[Westy]

#1 Blaming the French for Vietnam
-Blame LBJ for escalating the war and sacrificing thousands of GI's by hamstringing them with ridiculously restrictive ROE's.

LBJ facked up a lot of things. I think the lesson is to never put a Texan in the whitehouse.


He also did really smart things like tell the North Vietnamese to remove AA missles in certain areas on certain dates. The day after the ultimatum he would send the bombers into get slaughtered by AA missiles. The Vietnamese just moved in more missiles.

 

[Slugman]

I dont get it.

People dont chastise the French for helping out the American colonies during the American revolution. I mean, they were an outside force working against imperialism, which happened to also suit their own interests...while keeping a people free.

They helped our leaders who were popular... if you read the link I posted and the next series (very interesting) - We placed a puppet government that was unpopular and made changes that the citizens did not care for. We publicly backed then regardless of their actions for a long time. We then further went on to screw with that leader and help get a new one in... Again unpopular.

When the French assisted our revolution, they allowed those fighting to create their own future...


ON a side note - if you do read the link I posted (it's kinda long)... think about our current situation. I wasn't much for Iraq being another Vietnam until I read this. Too many things are similar...

 

[valve bouncer]

#1 Blaming the French for Vietnam
- Frog bastids were BRUTALLY oppressive rulers. The Truman should have forced them to give up all of their former empire after they completely rolled over to the Nazi's and especially when they went semi-commie after the war.


#2 Blaming the Dems for Vietnam

- Blame Truman who didn't nuke the commies at the conclusion of WWII. This led to the soviet build up and colonization of numerous countries. Shoulda let Gen Patton drive on to Moscow like he wanted to.

- Blame JFK for messing around in country with 'advisors' to prop up an unpopular, albeit non-commie, regime.

-Blame LBJ for escalating the war and sacrificing thousands of GI's by hamstringing them with ridiculously restrictive ROE's.

Finally getting some decent debate outta ya. Miracles do happen.....agree somewhat with the french as I already said. First sentence only. Second sentence is full of your usual bullsh*t. Learn when to shut-up.


Second point doesn't even bear comment, idiotic in the extreme. Go to war straight away against our erstwhile allies when we'd (I mean you) had shot our quiver against Japan,


JFK- don't even start there. He had bigger fish fry there with Castro and got popped before anything could be fleshed out in Indochina (admiitedly I'm reading "The Cold Six Thousand" at the moment so take that as you will.)

LBJ- Gotta point there, but he was subbed halfway thru, so tricky Dicky has goota take half the blame there......perhaps just as Kerry will if he takes over in January.
Keep it goin' Genghis, your best thread yet.......1 outta 1000 ain't bad.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Finally getting some decent debate outta yadda, yadda, yadda


Second point doesn't even bear comment, idiotic in the extreme. Go to war straight away against our erstwhile allies when we'd (I mean you) had shot our quiver against Japan,

Erstwhile allies..?
Yeeeah... remember the Berlin airlift? Shoulda shut them down right then and there because after that it was too late.

JFK- don't even start there. He had bigger fish fry there with Castro and got popped before anything could be fleshed out in Indochina (admiitedly I'm reading "The Cold Six Thousand" at the moment so take that as you will.)

LBJ- Gotta point there, but he was subbed halfway thru, so tricky Dicky has goota take half the blame there......perhaps just as Kerry will if he takes over in January.
Keep it goin' Genghis, your best thread yet.......1 outta 1000 ain't bad.

It was Tricky Dick who got us the hell out of the situation and was a Repbulican. Kerry is a blowhard opportunist.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Pickle!

 

[N8 v2.0]

Back on topic... Kerry's the Vietnam war hero and he's got the footage to prove it!!!

See it here; right click 'save as' JF Kerry's Vietnam home movies

Includes KERRY'S cinéma-not-so-vérité BATTLEFIELD REENACTMENTS!!!

 

[valve bouncer]

Erstwhile allies..?
Yeeeah... remember the Berlin airlift? Shoulda shut them down right then and there because after that it was too late.








It was Tricky Dick who got us the hell out of the situation and was a Repbulican. Kerry is a blowhard opportunist.

F*ck me, give you a chance and you flounder like a whale on the beach...
Your words "Patton should have driven to Moscow"......Berlin was '48, the war finished '45, read some history for fuxxake.
Confused- what's new....Kennedy was fixated on Cuba, so were all the Hawks, Vietnam was way low on the horizon.
Tricky Dicky got you out...the war ended in 1975 because you guys lost......got you out , you had no choice, you got your arses kicked.

 

[Slugman]

It was Tricky Dick who got us the hell out of the situation and was a Repbulican.

I just like re-reading that since it came from N8...

Republican President who is know for his Lies and dirty tricks in order to get elected... (http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm)

 

[N8 v2.0]

F*ck me, give you a chance and you flounder like a whale on the beach...
Your words "Patton should have driven to Moscow"......Berlin was '48, the war finished '45, read some history for fuxxake..

Of course it was goofy. I said Truman should have let Patton drive on to Moscow at the conclusion of WWII but he didn't. When the Russkies divided Berlin in 48, that should have been met with decisive military action. After that, it was too late to put the smack down on the Soviets without incurring huge numbers casualties on our side.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I just like re-reading that since it came from N8...

Republican President who is know for his Lies and dirty tricks in order to get elected... (http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm)

I am no Nixon admirer but he's not alone in the impeachment arena..!

 

[golgiaparatus]

I just like re-reading that since it came from N8...

Republican President who is know for his Lies and dirty tricks in order to get elected... (http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm)

Yeah, I like it too Ive read it like 4 times now

 

[valve bouncer]

Of course it was goofy. I said Truman should have let Patton drive on to Moscow at the conclusion of WWII but he didn't. When the Russkies divided Berlin in 48, that should have been met with decisive military action. After that, it was too late to put the smack down on the Soviets without incurring huge numbers casualties on our side.

Berlin was divided before '48......'48 was when the Soviets enforced the border. Jesus it wasn't Berlin that was divided before then it was the whole of Germany into zones of occupation. Whattya gonna do N8, throw the world into another world war against our allies requiring the help of the Nazis to win it? Idiotic in the extreme. At that time, what could have a war against Russia have achieved.....maybe another million men dead on the allied side, more perhaps, Russia just throwing people further back, biding their time accellerating their bomb programme until they can hurl them back. You're Dr Strangelove without the satire.

 

[fluff]

Note to self before posting on Political Debate forum........(as I jot this down on a post-it to put on my monitor)

1. Pay attention to the OP and the discussion that is taking place.

2. When those ideas or thoughts pop into your head, make sure you can fully develope it and they are relevant to the OP (see #1)

3. Give fluff a wide berth............

Am I forgeting anything..........................

Sorry mate, had a bad afternoon at work clearing up something someone else shoulda done right first time. Got snappy. Felt good at the time tho'

 

[fluff]

You're Dr Strangelove without the satire.

Priceless.

 

[Slugman]

I am no Nixon admirer but he's not alone in the impeachment arena..!

But he's the only president to lose his job for it, granted he resigned, but it's better to resign than be convicted. And everyone knows he was going to be convicted...

 

[N8 v2.0]

UUuragh!

 

[Changleen]

What's that supposed to mean?

"I've lost the argument so I'd better change the subject"?

Or maybe

"12 out of 19 GI's stupid as ****"

And what's with the N/As? Said they didn't want to be used as Political pawns so they've turned into terrorist traitors whose opinions don't count?

 

[valve bouncer]

As usual uN8 the truth is far more complex.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

I liked this part "The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him".......owned again uN8....best you give up little fella, you're out of your depth. :nuts: