[ALEXIS_DH]

Who said anything about forced? Once you use force then you are instantly into the realms of exploitation. However, if force is not involved then exploitation is not implicit.

For example, if I start an enterprise making widgets that return a profit of $500 per widget of which a worker can produce maximum of 4 per day and pay my employees double the national average salary then they get a good deal and I don't maximise my profits via trying to get the cheapest labour possible. In return I would hope to receive loyalty, commitment and respect.

If I were to locate my manufacturing to Burundi and pay $1 a day to my labourers then I enormously enhance my profits but give nothing but the bare minimum to the workers because I can get away with it. That would be exploitation of my workforce in my opinion, but not everyones.

Trafficking woman from Eastern Europe to force them into the sex industry in the UK would probably be exploitation in almost anyone's eyes.

hyperbole question to prove a point.
say, i am soon to open a business in peru.
have 10 employees. 4 of them making $15 a day (twice minimum wage) 6 of them making $8 a day (a bit over minimum wage). about $100 a day in labor for 10 people.

but for these workers to be productive, my capital investment is in the neighborhood of the $130-140k.

say, this all leaves me a profit of about $3000 a month.

is this explotation?
considering that between me working 60 hours a week and capital gains i make an average return of 25% a year..

is that exploitation? i mean, after all, am paying $8 a day to some.
if i raise salaries $1 a day... then i´d be better off firing everyone, closing my business, putting my money on a mutual fund and getting a job on my own, and i´d probably get a much better return.

 

[dan-o]

By the definitions being laid out here, anything less than overcompensating workers is being called exploitation. Why in the world would any business owner pay more than the prevailing wage for the needed skills?

I own a business that is very profitable. My workers get paid well but not more than their skills garner. Anything beyond that is charity, which is fine, but is no way to run a business.

 

[syadasti]

I own a business that is very profitable. My workers get paid well but not more than their skills garner. Anything beyond that is charity, which is fine, but is no way to run a business.

That "charity" in many cases is in your own best interests. Often business owners are too greedy and underpay their employees and productivity and loyalty is lower. You can also grow your business by giving employees some form of ownership in the business so they are working both for you and themselves.

 

[firemandivi]

Everyone is outsourcing their work to third world countries its the thing to do. 1 in 5 IBM employee's now work in India http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071214/ap_on_hi_te/ibm_employees
No wonder you can never understand costumer support.

If your job is in manufacturing of any sort I would always be looking for a new job. Apparently its not profitable to produce much here in the USA or any developed country.

 

[MikeD]

That "charity" in many cases is in your own best interests. Often business owners are too greedy and underpay their employees and productivity and loyalty is lower. You can also grow your business by giving employees some form of ownership in the business so they are working both for you and themselves.

Which is why good businesses grow and bad ones falter. I'm all for some sort of minimum wage, but you have to let people run their own shows.

 

[dan-o]

That "charity" in many cases is in your own best interests. Often business owners are too greedy and underpay their employees and productivity and loyalty is lower. You can also grow your business by giving employees some form of ownership in the business so they are working both for you and themselves.

Obviously but there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to excess compensation. I'm a contractor that uses subs. My crews are loyal because I pay better, am generous with profit-sharing and supply endless work. However, these practices put me at a competitive disadvantage and there is only so far I can go before they threaten the health of the business.

 

[syadasti]

Which is why good businesses grow and bad ones falter. I'm all for some sort of minimum wage, but you have to let people run their own shows.

I am not against people running their business into the ground on their own. Just adding that paying well/employee ownership can be important. It varies by industry and it can be negative taken in either extreme.

 

[fluff]

Above are two illustrations of why pure capitalism does nothing to help the poor. They also illustrate that without some form of return on investment that people will not start businesses.

So we can establish that incentives are necessary and that capitalism cannot be left to do it's thing, laissez-faire stylee.

So we have to have mechanisms like minimum wage, which should be a realistic amount to allow people to live and improve themselves.

Further wealth redistribution comes from progressive tax, and controls on movement of capital (to give a very high-level picture).

 

[firemandivi]

Above are two illustrations of why pure capitalism does nothing to help the poor. They also illustrate that without some form of return on investment that people will not start businesses.
So we can establish that incentives are necessary and that capitalism cannot be left to do it's thing, laissez-faire stylee.
So we have to have mechanisms like minimum wage, which should be a realistic amount to allow people to live and improve themselves.
Further wealth redistribution comes from progressive tax, and controls on movement of capital (to give a very high-level picture).

The problem is that minimum wage will never be enough for people to live on. The more money you have the better your accountant gets at helping you keep your money.

 

[fluff]

The problem is that minimum wage will never be enough for people to live on. The more money you have the better your accountant gets at helping you keep your money.

It may be that minimum wage is too low in the US, but why does it have to be that way?

 

[syadasti]

It may be that minimum wage is too low in the US, but why does it have to be that way?

I don't see why he thinks its OK to keep loopholes and tax breaks for those who are most able pay them without impact to their basic living needs.

 

[SlapheadMofo]

"Is it that we revolutionaries don’t have the right to have a Hummer or a car? If we make money, we can do it,"

Meet the new boss,...

 

[firemandivi]

It may be that minimum wage is too low in the US, but why does it have to be that way?

I'm not saying it has to be that way, I'm just saying that's the way it is now. I would expect that if minimum wage was high enough that people could live off of it the prices on everything in our economy would drastically increase. A burger at McDonald's would cost $5.00, if migrant workers got paid minimum wage our produce would increase, etc, etc. Just think of how much depends on people working for minimum wage or less. I'm not saying its right, but the only solution is for everyone to be willing to pay 2-3 times more for products.

I don't see why he thinks its OK to keep loopholes and tax breaks for those who are most able pay them without impact to their basic living needs.

Again I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that is the current status of things here in the USA.