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My Obama Expectations...

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
point is, i'm not seeing that embryonic stem cells are viewed as a silver bullet any longer.
The point is, why would you tie one arm behind your back in a fight against horrible diseases AND international economic competition? The more lines of cells the better, so while you're busy protecting the dignity of a clump of cells in a test tube or a bio-bin top researchers and bio-tech firms are moving to universities and nations that don't hamstring them.
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
what do you mean "turn into"? you realize we have government ownership (ie, SOCIALISM) of more companies now than probably at any point in history, right? you know that socialism doesn't just refer to higher taxes, no matter what Limbaugh & Co say. With the government (thanks GWB!!) owning a majority stake in AIG, Fannie, Freddie, etc, and huge portions of pretty much every financial company out there, we're farther down the road to socialism than anything Obama could do. Now we have government stakes in both GM and Chysler, and next up will be who knows what, socialism is already here.
let's not forget the barney frank, chris dodd angle in all of this.
for they were the ones who took advantage of the deregulation and got this whole ball rolling.

going to be interesting to see where all of the hate is going to be focused now that ya'll's supply of GWB hate suppositories are going to dry up.
 

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rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Curb Huckers quote below has rased alot of critisism. So what did he say that was so radical or stupid?

No tinfoil hat for me, I just dont let the media brainwash me and I try to connect all of the dots myself. If I was behind the curtains and had spent the last several decades building up a large supply of bases across the globe, and recently amassing troops and conflicts in the middle east I think that Mr. Obama and current congress would be perfect people to have in power to continue the conquest. New faces, other party, same bull****. If you dont think something very fishy is going on you should start looking at things for what they are.
* He doesn't trust the media, and he has realized how the massmedia actually works on the human mind.
* He rather search for info by him self than be fed by Rupert Murdoch.
* He said that the US has loads of troops and bases in many countries (60 actually).
* He stated the from most congressmen, including O, self admitted fact that they're interventionists rather than constitutionalists.
* He stated that the US is out on a conquest (for natural resources).
* He's seen a pattern over several elections were the US foreign policy hasn't changed much.
* He rings a bell of warning so that you will notice the above (if you haven't already).


What's the controverse?


Supporting Israel is one of those wildly popular things that is absolutely politically impossible to not do. Paul had nothing to offer to those that are to the left in any case, because his domestic policies would have been mostly disastrous.

People have been claiming that the U.S. is insolvent for a couple years now, and it hasn't resulted in a currency crisis.
So Paul wouldn't have given health care to everybody (lets hope O does), what else wouldn't he be good for? He wouldn't give any bandaid to the big three? Good, let the system crash. What more?

The US economy can handle the debt it's at, np.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
First Act:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- One of President Barack Obama's first acts is to order federal agencies to halt all pending regulations until his administration can review them.

The order went out Tuesday afternoon, shortly after Obama was inaugurated president, in a memorandum signed by new White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. The notice of the action was contained in the first press release sent out by Obama's White House, and it came from deputy press secretary Bill Burton.

The waning days of former President Bush's administration featured much debate over what rules and regulations he would seek to enact before he left office.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
^^^^^

in a dicked up kind of way, this is part of the reason why i haven't been doing much work for the past 8 weeks (it's been trickling in). we have a couple 2-man teams hoping to go on a whirlwind tour installing "stuff" on af bases, but have to wait until the champagne bottle smashes upon the bow of the hms obama
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
Curb Huckers quote below has rased alot of critisism. So what did he say that was so radical or stupid?



* He doesn't trust the media, and he has realized how the massmedia actually works on the human mind.
* He rather search for info by him self than be fed by Rupert Murdoch.
* He said that the US has loads of troops and bases in many countries (60 actually).
* He stated the from most congressmen, including O, self admitted fact that they're interventionists rather than constitutionalists.
* He stated that the US is out on a conquest (for natural resources).
* He's seen a pattern over several elections were the US foreign policy hasn't changed much.
* He rings a bell of warning so that you will notice the above (if you haven't already).


What's the controverse?
The controversey is not that he points out facts, but that he isolates these facts in the face of the larger pattern of history, then draws a very, very spurious conclusion that there's some sort of shadow puppet-master with a unified goal behind US actions and politics. Of course, it doesn't seem spurious to you because you're also insane.

Also, there's no opposition between being an "interventionist" and a "constitutionalist."
 

skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,415
0
port just came shooting out my nose...i think i might die...or my sinuses (sinai?) might...

:cheers:
you have not experienced pain until you have had whiskey shoot out of your nose. it's just hard to keep a straight face during whiskey slaps.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
The body of US 'Policy' is so massive, that it's easy to say he won't change much, or he's just the other side of the same coin, etc.

However, a serious commitment to new energy technologies is a big change. I still believe the US is the most innovative country on Earth (just ask the 'innovators' on Wall St :lighten: ) Pushing an agenda for a cleaner energy economy will create jobs here and begin the long process of weaning us off oil, if not for environmental reasons, then for solidly geopolitical ones. If we're not as beholden to Canada (our number one source of 'foreign oil') and other equally vile totalitarian ;) monarchies and theocracies in the Middle East, we won't really need to care what happens there as much. If we can innovate and create cost competitive technologies, these are products that we can sell around the world along with the expertise that goes along with them.

Executive order overturning the Global Gag rule ASAP

Congress overturning the fed Stem Cell Funding Restrictions

Re-engagement with the world diplomatically. (The kind of diplomacy that asks questions first.)


And, admittedly minor, but it's been grating for the last 8 years, no more hearing the President of the United States of America, the Commander in Chief, the person some would argue is the single most powerful person on the planet (apologies to the underground lizards) saying "NUKULAR."

:cheers:
Global gag being the Patriot Act?

Maybe the Bushes are lizards? According to David Icke there are 13(?) bloodlines and those are lizards (if I remember corretly)...


I wish I could axe him a question. :monkeydance:
- I want him to make me the head of security"
- What, you saying that you want a job?
- Yeah, a job.

Yesterday on CSPAN


Similar to how federal funding of NASA and military research projects have led to private sector investment. Hmmm... Wonder if the same sort of thing could come out of fed funding for stem cell research, particularly more lines of embryonic stem cells.


There have also been problems with rejection and mutations when using adult stem cells, that don't happen as frequently when using embryonic stem cells.
Shouldn't be a big problem. In Sweden the right wing is pushing for tax breaks for companies that donate money to science. Those critisizing that are saying that it's better to give that tax money direct to science, otherwise we will have private companies dictating what fields should be reaserched.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
First Act:
Bravo, the first thing he could do at his new job he did on the first day! Let's see what this leads to.


The controversey is not that he points out facts, but that he isolates these facts in the face of the larger pattern of history, then draws a very, very spurious conclusion that there's some sort of shadow puppet-master with a unified goal behind US actions and politics. Of course, it doesn't seem spurious to you because you're also insane.

Also, there's no opposition between being an "interventionist" and a "constitutionalist."
I'm sorry, I fail to see that part, care to explain?

That's Ron Paul's definition from a recent (2-3 weeks ago) interview I saw with him.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
As far as your first bolding, I'd actually rather not.

And as far as the esteemed Mr. Paul is concerned, he might as well have put being a vegetarian in opposition to being a librarian.

Constitutionalism refers to the manner in which the government operates; interventionism refers to a particular foreign policy.

I can easily see where Paultards would draw a conclusion that somehow operating within Constitutional bounds leads to a non-interventionist foreign policy, but this, like many things said by excited, well-meaning idiots, is a leap of logic bridged with aesthetics.
 
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blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
you have not experienced pain until you have had whiskey shoot out of your nose. it's just hard to keep a straight face during whiskey slaps.
I once had an unfortunate Everclear experience, but I think the thickness and high sugar content of a port that's been sitting for 4 years might be worse.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Curb Huckers quote below has rased alot of critisism. So what did he say that was so radical or stupid?

No tinfoil hat for me, I just dont let the media brainwash me and I try to connect all of the dots myself. If I was behind the curtains and had spent the last several decades building up a large supply of bases across the globe, and recently amassing troops and conflicts in the middle east I think that Mr. Obama and current congress would be perfect people to have in power to continue the conquest. New faces, other party, same bull****. If you dont think something very fishy is going on you should start looking at things for what they are.
* He doesn't trust the media, and he has realized how the massmedia actually works on the human mind.
* He rather search for info by him self than be fed by Rupert Murdoch.
* He said that the US has loads of troops and bases in many countries (60 actually).
* He stated the from most congressmen, including O, self admitted fact that they're interventionists rather than constitutionalists.
* He stated that the US is out on a conquest (for natural resources).
* He's seen a pattern over several elections were the US foreign policy hasn't changed much.
* He rings a bell of warning so that you will notice the above (if you haven't already).


What's the controverse?



The controversey is not that he points out facts, but that he isolates these facts in the face of the larger pattern of history, then draws a very, very spurious conclusion that there's some sort of shadow puppet-master with a unified goal behind US actions and politics. Of course, it doesn't seem spurious to you because you're also insane.

Also, there's no opposition between being an "interventionist" and a "constitutionalist."

I'm sorry, I fail to see that part, care to explain?

As far as your first bolding, I'd actually rather not.
I suspected that you wouldn't. This is just one of your usual blind defences of your country (that I've clashed with you many times before), and then try to spin it. :nopity:




And as far as the esteemed Mr. Paul is concerned, he might as well have put being a vegetarian in opposition to being a librarian.

Constitutionalism refers to the manner in which the government operates; interventionism refers to a particular foreign policy.

I can easily see where Paultards would draw a conclusion that somehow operating within Constitutional bounds leads to a non-interventionist foreign policy, but this, like many things said by excited, well-meaning idiots, is a leap of logic bridged with aesthetics.
This is an interesting topic, maybe we have the time to look at your constitution one day.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
There isn't a conflict between following to the Constitution and being interventionist or even imperialist. You can say what the founding fathers may or may not have envisioned, but the US and the entire world has come a long way since then.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
For sh*ts and giggles.

Anti American’s believes the United States is always or almost always wrong. The United States deserves to have pain and suffering inflicted upon it, and an Anti American, believes America is and never will be a force for good. An anti American is an Ideology that wants to seize property from one group of people and give to another because the anti American thinks the receivers deserve it more than the folks they seized it from. Anti Americans think profit is wrong or bad.

An Anti American thinks they can make one person equal with another. An Anti American DOES NOT believe in treating all people equally. Most Anti Americans at least attempt to use the Marxist concept of Class warfare to divide the population.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
I suspected that you wouldn't. This is just one of your usual blind defences of your country (that I've clashed with you many times before), and then try to spin it. :nopity:
No, seriously, rockwool, if you don't get it at the get-go it's not like any amount of logic or explanation is going to work on you. Why waste the effort?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
I suspected that you wouldn't. This is just one of your usual blind defences of your country (that I've clashed with you many times before), and then try to spin it. :nopity:
Ah, no, it's yet another example of me giving a blindingly obvious statement like "that car is red" and you asking "Why? Please explain" and me simply not wanting to waste the time. But I guess I'll be baited once more. The statement is self-explanatory. He has cherry-picked a few statements and drawn an unreasonable conclusion from them. If he'd said "US foreign policy has become gradually more imperialist, and successive presidents have taken us further down this path," that might be a reasonable conclusion in the face of the totality of historical (and present) facts, though of course we could then get into the political arguments stemming thereof. However, he draws a conclusion that there is a conspiracy or power behind the scenes which has consciously guided or forced the entire US political process towards a pre-determined end.

There's also no "defense of my country" in my objections; they are intellectual objections to faulty reasoning.

We also don't need to discuss the Constitution to point out that there's nothing in there about interventionist or non-interventionist policies. That's like saying we should read through a cook book to ensure there's nothing in there about fixing a car.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
No, seriously, rockwool, if you don't get it at the get-go it's not like any amount of logic or explanation is going to work on you. Why waste the effort?
Yeah, that. Shoulda left it to the experts.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,578
9,588
for byrd's part, i'm sure it was his inner dixiecrat that shat hisself when the nigrah* took office





*not to be confused w/ the n-word, which no self-respecting geriatric southerner would ever murmur outside of church
howard sterns thing on robert byrd the morning after....

robert byrd..."why is the waiter going around shaking everyones hand?"..........oy vey
 
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rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
I thought it was the attempt for the record for the world's largest bukkake festivus...

Huh...go figure...
Didn't know there was a word for that... And you're expecting me to know everything in your domestic politics wich is impossible. I had to look Global Gag up and who would have guessed that it's about abortion..?



No, seriously, rockwool, if you don't get it at the get-go it's not like any amount of logic or explanation is going to work on you. Why waste the effort?
Cus I would for you. :twitch:



Ah, no, it's yet another example of me giving a blindingly obvious statement like "that car is red" and you asking "Why? Please explain" and me simply not wanting to waste the time. But I guess I'll be baited once more. The statement is self-explanatory. He has cherry-picked a few statements and drawn an unreasonable conclusion from them. If he'd said "US foreign policy has become gradually more imperialist, and successive presidents have taken us further down this path," that might be a reasonable conclusion in the face of the totality of historical (and present) facts, though of course we could then get into the political arguments stemming thereof. However, he draws a conclusion that there is a conspiracy or power behind the scenes which has consciously guided or forced the entire US political process towards a pre-determined end.
And those grades are:
1) The birth of the Monroe Doctrine in the 1830 (?),
2) The start of the implementation of the MD in the 1880's,
3) The takover of previously Brittish Empire interests in 1945,
4) (Race to space starting in the 50's).

Those are all the grades I can think of, and the 4th one is in parenthesis. Did I miss anything? Depending on where you start looking at it these are just different grades of a shipload of years; many many administrations, there's a pattern and Curb Hucker probably saw just like this (and like me). Have you come to any other conclussion?


Curb Hucker put it out simply. Although, how the system works, and is worked, isn't anything simple. Puppet is a very simplified and figurative word, and can probably only with some right be put on GWB. Although maybe even GWB had one single thought of his self, in these 8 years, that he drove against his advisors will. Maybe.

Conspiracies, predetermening stuff.... What we really can see are men of ideology and vision laying out a path; men like Kristol, Fuji(guy), and their proffessor (forgot his name too..), etc. So in that sence, there are some people predetermening stuff.

As for conspiracies, we have men and families of wealth who do stuff like own the Federal Reserve. We don't know who they are. They don't want to be known, nor their wishes, wants and plans. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

Both these two groups of people exist and can and do to some extent wheel some power even on a POTUS. Total puppet? No.



There's also no "defense of my country" in my objections; they are intellectual objections to faulty reasoning.
Good man. But I do find you hard to do with some times, like that you're overly protective of your country.



We also don't need to discuss the Constitution to point out that there's nothing in there about interventionist or non-interventionist policies. That's like saying we should read through a cook book to ensure there's nothing in there about fixing a car.

I can easily see where Paultards would draw a conclusion that somehow operating within Constitutional bounds leads to a non-interventionist foreign policy, but this, like many things said by excited, well-meaning idiots, is a leap of logic bridged with aesthetics.
Well, like you said, you see something there, and I took your word for it and found it interesting enough to want to know more.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
You are missing East Asian economic and military imperialism

The whole thing behind most conspiracy theories is that there isn't a lot of proof to back them up.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
You are missing East Asian economic and military imperialism

The whole thing behind most conspiracy theories is that there isn't a lot of proof to back them up.
You mean the gunboat diplomacy in China (maybe other places too)?

Yeah, they follow the same pattern as the Israelis refuse to comment what types of weapons have been used etc. That way it will be forgotten quicker and later it can be waived off as rumors and accusations.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
You mean the gunboat diplomacy in China (maybe other places too)?

Yeah, they follow the same pattern as the Israelis refuse to comment what types of weapons have been used etc. That way it will be forgotten quicker and later it can be waived off as rumors and accusations.
Philippines also, and we had a lot of investments in tin, rubber, etc in a lot of other countries.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Philippines also, and we had a lot of investments in tin, rubber, etc in a lot of other countries.
Naturally, how could I forget...

Funny thing is that when you mentioned East Asian economic and military imperialism in your previous post, the memory that first came to me of this was from an old Hollywood movie, probably 1940's-50's, in black and white that was about a sailor that got caught up in troubles in the quaters of Shanghai (I belive it was).

It is good to watch these old Hollywood movies (and not forgetting 1960's-70's cowboy movies) to see what type of mentality that was typical among US Americans, and to see how the propaganda of yesterday has evolved into todays.
 
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rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
what do you know about the full affected scope & its current status? if the free market of ideas leads to prosperity in the free market proper, this would be more highly funded by private interests.

let me put it to you this way: if [embryonic - that's what's @ play here] stem cell research is the silver bullet, why aren't shovels full o' cash being cast by the likes of soros, et. al.? there's lots of other "health" causes which are widely funded, but not embryonic stem cell research. it isn't not legal, just the federal funding of further stem lines.

here, let toshi explain further: <this place reserved>
Bring on the 'Shovels Full O' Cash' or Embryonic Stem Cell Treatments Coming to a Hospital Near You?

The FDA just approved a trial on an embryonic stem cell treatment for spinal injuries. The treatment is derived from one of the lines approved in the Bush decision on 2001. Interesting, b/c the company, Geron, says that the federal funding ban "devastated the field." Seems clear that the federal ban forced researchers out of the country and into other areas: non embryonic stem cell biology, etc. Now, if congress or the prez overturns the ban, I hope we see a resurgence in research in the field, and ensuing investment:

CNN

The trials will involve eight to 10 patients who are completely paralyzed below the third to tenth vertebra, and who sustained their spinal cord injury within seven to 14 days. The tests will use stem cells cultured from embryos left over in fertility clinics, which otherwise would have been discarded.

Using the stem cells, researchers have developed cells called oligodendrocytes, which are precursors to nerve cells and which produce a protective layer around nerve cells known as myelin. Researchers will inject these nerve cells directly into the part of the spine where the injury occurred.

Embryonic stem cells are blank cells found in four- to five-day-old embryos, which have the ability to turn into any cell in the body. However, when stem cells are removed, the embryo is destroyed -- which has made this one of the most controversial medical research fields in the past decade.

Federal research funds were prohibited for embryonic stem-cell research until August 2001, when Bush approved spending for research using only already-existing cell lines. Scientists later discovered that fewer than two dozen of those lines were useful for research, but abortion opponents opposed any legislation that would lift Bush's restrictions, and Bush twice vetoed congressional efforts to roll back his rules.

President Obama is expected to loosen the restrictions, which many researchers and advocates have complained severely set back work toward curing disease such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and diabetes.

Okarma said Geron did not use any federal funding for its research, and that the Bush restrictions had "devastated the field."

"People didn't think this would happen for another five years," Okarma said. "But it will happen soon, and it would have happened sooner if it weren't for the ridiculous Bush policies."

Geron owns patents on and licenses the procedure to make these stem cell lines. The company spent $45 million of its own to produce everything required to get approval for the upcoming trial, Okarma said.

At least two other companies have said they plan to begin conducting embryonic stem-cell tests in humans, but only Geron has received FDA approval. Another U.S. company, Reneuron, plans to conduct trials involving stem cells taken from fetal tissue in Britain this year. Other companies have developed stem cells from adult tissue, sidestepping the controversy.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
Bring on the 'Shovels Full O' Cash' or Embryonic Stem Cell Treatments Coming to a Hospital Near You?
Dear god, I wonder how many innocent little baby jesuses were slaughtered for those evil selfish paraplegics.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
How's this for a 2 day double barreled BOOYAH of "Get your f-ing religion out of my Gov't"?

Thursday:
Roe v. Wade "not only protects women's health and reproductive freedom, but stands for a broader principle: that government should not intrude on our most private family matters," Obama said in a statement.
Friday:
WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama plans to sign an executive order ending the ban on federal funds for international groups that promote or perform abortions, officials told The Associated Press on Friday.
Bye bye Gag Rule.... Bukkake all around for the Repubs and Evangelitards!