[patconnole]

I saw the film "In shifting sands" by the UNSCOM weapons inspector Scott Ritter. Go see it if you can find it, a great explanation of how the inspections work, what they're about, the purpose, effectiveness.....etc.

Most interesting part of the film though was where he explains how he was told to "instigate a conflict" by some US official (can't remember). He was told to do so at some specified date by trying to inspect a site that they knew the Iraqis would not let them see (i.e., they're ministry of defense [pentagon], or a place like it). He had to do it on a certain date, because "we'll only have 5 days to bomb because of Ramadon".

I don't know if he was able to fulfill the request, but the bombing eventually did happen and was called "Desert Fox", of which, I know nothing about.

Another interesting section was how the Inspectors were turned into an espionage/spying operation to gather military and security evidence for the US. I think it was around that point where he resigned. I was not aware of these charges he's making against the US, I'd only heard that he was against an invansion for some reason.


Yeah, so my prediction is the same thing will happen, that we'll try to instigate a conflict to justify an invasion (see Panama, when that marine was harassed) or we'll just invade because we can.

 

[fluff]

It doesn't really take a genius to see that would be how it works. From Iraq's viewpoint the weapons inspectors are pretty much official UN-sanctioned spies. And most wars are started on pretty flimsy 'incidents', ranging from sinking your own ships and blaming someone else ('sabotage' is very useful here) to dressing your men up in another country's army uniforms and staging a 'border incident'.

History really does repeat itself, if it's happening now it's probably happened before, the key is information control, hence so much information that governments classify as secret. It pisses me off that the people who claim to represent me and my best interests will not allow me to know what they do in my name and why. But I'm not surprised at all as they really have very little interest in me, I am a number.

 

[LoboDelFuego]

Originally posted by fluff

History really does repeat itself, if it's happening now it's probably happened before, the key is information control, hence so much information that governments classify as secret. It pisses me off that the people who claim to represent me and my best interests will not allow me to know what they do in my name and why. But I'm not surprised at all as they really have very little interest in me, I am a number.

They'll just say its in your best interests not to know, because then there will be no information leaks and the government will be able to conduct its military operations, that were designed to keep you safe.

It's a pretty sad fact about humanity that in a total open democracy with open exchange of all ideas and information, we would never ever get anything done.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
It's a pretty sad fact about humanity that in a total open democracy with open exchange of all ideas and information, we would never ever get anything done.

why? i haven't heard of this claim.

 

[patconnole]

Originally posted by Toshi
why? i haven't heard of this claim.

Listen to this, if you've got the time...... there's a part where chomsky talks about some events you wouldn't be able to cover-up in a totalitarian state, but have managed to disappear in this democracy. http://stream.realimpact.org/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/exile/dn20011023.ra&start="10:40.2"

and part two http://stream.realimpact.org/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/exile/dn20011024.ra&start="1:07:50.6"

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
They'll just say its in your best interests not to know, because then there will be no information leaks and the government will be able to conduct its military operations, that were designed to keep you safe.

It's a pretty sad fact about humanity that in a total open democracy with open exchange of all ideas and information, we would never ever get anything done.

Would we not? Even if that were the case would it be a bad thing necessarily, after all if not getting things done would have avoided the second world war there'd be a few million people who didn't die horribly in order to get things done. And that was at the hands of a democratically elected totalitarian state. (Not quite so much of a contradiction as it appears).

I still think I know what is in my best interests better than someone who has never met me, but I guess that's just naivety...

 

[Jesus]

Originally posted by patconnole
I saw the film "In shifting sands" by the UNSCOM weapons inspector Scott Ritter. Go see it if you can find it, a great explanation of how the inspections work, what they're about, the purpose, effectiveness.....etc.

Most interesting part of the film though was where he explains how he was told to "instigate a conflict" by some US official (can't remember). He was told to do so at some specified date by trying to inspect a site that they knew the Iraqis would not let them see (i.e., they're ministry of defense [pentagon], or a place like it). He had to do it on a certain date, because "we'll only have 5 days to bomb because of Ramadon".

I don't know if he was able to fulfill the request, but the bombing eventually did happen and was called "Desert Fox", of which, I know nothing about.

Another interesting section was how the Inspectors were turned into an espionage/spying operation to gather military and security evidence for the US. I think it was around that point where he resigned. I was not aware of these charges he's making against the US, I'd only heard that he was against an invansion for some reason.


Yeah, so my prediction is the same thing will happen, that we'll try to instigate a conflict to justify an invasion (see Panama, when that marine was harassed) or we'll just invade because we can.

I agree, sorta. I think the reasons he wants war to this date are flimsy at best. Bush has benn picking a fight with Saddam from the start. So I don't agree with the reasons he is giving for this upcoming war, but I think the bastard should be killed anyways.

We all know what Saddam has done. He's a homicidal maniac goin around killing his own people with these chemical weapons, and too many numerous other things to mention. He needs to be dead.

But I am sure that whoever takes over next will be just as bad. Guess we just have to keep killing. The world is overpopulated anyway. Plus I never met an Arab I liked, but there are so many nice one's I am sure I will some day.

 

[Eddie420]

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
They'll just say its in your best interests not to know, because then there will be no information leaks and the government will be able to conduct its military operations, that were designed to keep you safe.

It's a pretty sad fact about humanity that in a total open democracy with open exchange of all ideas and information, we would never ever get anything done.

You stooopid ****ing dickhead!!!!!
You make me sick.

 

[slein]

i'm sure he'll be the reason that war starts in iraq...

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by fluff


I still think I know what is in my best interests better than someone who has never met me, but I guess that's just naivety...

Yes, yes it is.

That ain't the way it works. The US military doesn't go telling the subjects of the Queen it's intentions (neither does the UK military for that matter) just so you can have a warm fuzzy feeling about it's actions. You simply aren't that important.

Trust me. The US and UK govt's have been doing just fine for quite some time using this philosophy, I sincerly doubt that they are going to change because somone from Surrey dosn't like the status-quo.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Damn True
The US and UK govt's have been doing just fine for quite some time using this philosophy

Oh yeah, they both have stellar track records.

Of the stuff we kept secret at the time, how much of it were we ridiculously ashamed of 20 years later?

I'm not saying military secrecy is unnecessary, but in my experience, if the issue even needs to be brought up, it's because some shady sh!t is going down...