[Instigator]

Ok, so I own both a medium yeti 575 and a medium santa cruz heckler. I have had a couple of people asking me how they both ride, so I thought I would take the time to do a comparison between the two.

First off I originally built the 575 as a xc race/trail bike with light weight parts and built to go fast. The complete bike including pedals was 25.5 lbs and ended up feeling a little sketchy from skinny tires and light flexy parts.

On the other hand I built up the heckler for a mid weight trail bike that I could beat the crap out of It weighs around 31 lbs with a fox float air shock on the back.

I have spent some time on the heckler and neglected the 575 until last week. I decided to build the 575 a bit more burly to see if it rode better. I changed tires, pedals and handlebars to start, but decided that I was going about this the wrong way.

For a fair comparison of the 2 frames I am using the same wheels, tires, brakes, pedals and fork. The bars, stem I very close to the same and didn't feel like swapping them.

Both bikes will be using mavic 519 rims laced to XT rear/ onyx front 20mm hubs, tires are maxxis larson TT 2.35 tires at 750 grams each. The fork is a 2003 Psylo SL set at 125mm, pedals are wellgo magnesium platforms and brakes are avid mechanicals.




I would like to know if anyone would like any particular info, if so please ask.
To start this here are picture of both and my first impression of both.

 

[dh girlie]

Dude...LOVE the pimp daddy gold on the heckaaaaler

 

[jacksonpt]

Cool... I was waiting for this. All I really care about is how the bikes are built up (including weight), and general rideability of each. Types of trails and trail conditions might also be helpful in determining overall rideability.

It's interesting though that you found the 575 sketchy. Granted, we went different directions with our builds... but mine seems rock solid in every regard.

 

[MMcG]

Ralph this is gonna kick ass for not only me but I suspect a bunch of other monkeys like Mackie etc. etc.

I see your photos but I don't see your first impression. Very cool that your wheelset is similar to what I have right now (Singletrack laced to a 20mm stout hub, 519 to an XT in the rear).

Bring on the shootout review baby!!

 

[Instigator]

Since I have had more time on the heckler with this build it is easy to describe. It feels perfectly balanced front and rear. The bike tracks well through turns and never hints of feeling twitchy, I would say mostly due to the upright riding position and the 69 degree head angle. Since the minute I first started to ride the heckler it was like I had ridden this bike for ever. carving trails, hitting jumps and drops, just solid predictable and fun. Climbing also was suprisingly good. Even with the air shock on the bike it bobbed very little and always felt like I was not getting robbed of power.

The Yeti has just been built up with the parts off of the heckler and I only have had 2 short rides so far. The biggest difference from the light weight build to the build now is stiffness. I can hardly believe it is the same frame. I thought all along that the Yeti frame was just flexy because of its light weight, nope! it was the parts that I had on it. These first 2 rides the bike showed a remarkable improvement in feeling more stout than I had ever thought. The rear shock is what sets the Yeti apart from the heckler. When ever hitting a bump the 5th element soaks it up and goes back to the platform with no perseaved movement again. It rides smoother and steadier on bumpy trails. I am going to have to think about how to put it into words.

I will be added on to this, hopefully on a daily basis, for the next week or more, so let the questions fly.

Ralph(Instigator)

 

[Instigator]

Sorry, guys I was writing up first impressions as a seperate post

 

[Echo]

Cool man. Let me know if you want me to tag along on any of your evaluation rides

 

[Instigator]

Cool man. Let me know if you want me to tag along on any of your evaluation rides

Heck ya! You should take the bikes out also, 2 peoples impressions are better than one

 

[MMcG]

Ralph - what if you put a 5th on the Heckler? Would it give you the similar feel to the 575?

Does the 575 feel stiffer than the Heckler in it's new burlier configuration?

They are both mediums right? So the 575 has a longer top tube - how does the cockpit feel between the two rides? Oh yeah and how tall are you?

 

[MMcG]

This is cool - sort of the Ridemonkey trail bike shootout! Sweet.

 

[Instigator]

Ralph - what if you put a 5th on the Heckler? Would it give you the similar feel to the 575?

The heckler came with the 5th coil and I plan on putting it on, but also, both bikes take the same eye-2-eye shock, so I can actually put the 5th air on the heckler also!

Does the 575 feel stiffer than the Heckler in it's new burlier configuration?

That I am not sure about yet. I was so suprised at standing up pedaling the 575 I was lost to what the back of the bike felt like since the front wasn't flexing and wondering any longer.

They are both mediums right? So the 575 has a longer top tube - how does the cockpit feel between the two rides? Oh yeah and how tall are you?

The longer top tube caught me off guard on the 575, so for the moment I actually slid my seat forward to make both bikes cockpits closer to being the same. My height is around 5'11"

answers in blue

(edit: I need to get some sleep, so I will add more tomorrow)

 

[MMcG]

you are 5'11 and on a medium Heckler - hmmmm......I'm 5'9 and was wondering between Medium and Large. I look forward to your next post Ralph!

 

[TreeSaw]

Cool man. Let me know if you want me to tag along on any of your evaluation rides

Yeah, I could tag along on an evaluation ride this weekend perhaps

 

[stuntmatty]

You should let me ride them and devalue errrrr....evaluate both bikes for you :devil:

 

[jacksonpt]

Hey Ralph... how about a few comments on how nimble the bikes are... in tight switchbacks and technical sections?

 

[MMcG]

Okay throw the new Sinster FS bike into the mix now!!! Just saw photos of it on HCOR - dirt demo photos - it looks pretty sick!

 

[jacksonpt]

Man... I hate to say it (of course I mean it in fun)... but you're as bad as me!

Just to stir the pot a bit... have you looked at the Eduro? How about the LocoMoto? What about the Tomac Eli? Transition bikes? There are some good deals on Ventana frames too.

 

[MMcG]

haha.....Enduros aren't my cup of tea, no on the Loco-moto too......definitely no on ehe Eli - really ugly bike, Prestons are nice but sorta heavy, El Chamuco - tasty! Hell even the new Hollowpoint MKiiis look pretty sweet. So many choices, so many bikes.

 

[Instigator]

Day 2

I just got back from 2 hrs of trail riding. 575 was the bike for today and I plan on running the same trails tomorrow or thursday on the heckler (with the 5th coil that came on it)

Todays ride was a mix of flowing trails, some fairly tight twisty, a few steeps up and down, off camber, roots and a few rocky areas. I was again very happy with the bike today. even weighing in at just under 30 lbs, it felt light and flickable. high speed downhills are so much better now. specs show the 575 as having a 69 degree head angle and if that is correct it is perfect for my style of trail riding.

The bike tracks well through bumpy corners with a solid feeling like the wheel will stay put. steering is slack enough that the bike never feels twitchy even when carving turns or on bumpy downhills. I was purposely hitting as many rocks and roots as I could find, just to get a feel of how stiff the rear end is side to side. It tracked very well with only a hint of flex. The flex could easily be the tires or wheels, but I will have a better feel after riding the heckler next. The bike is definitely made for cruising in comfort. If I were going to go on all day adventure rides, this bike shines oh so brite.

I wanted to make the bike more play oriented, so I lowered the spv pressure to minimum and backed off the rebound to make it faster(springier) I have always had a tough time bunny hopping on the yeti and with the settings changed it was better, but still know where near as easy as the heckler is with the fox air shock. Once I put the 5th coil on the heckler and hit the same trails, I will be able to give a better review on the differences of the 2 frames.

One thing I did notice was an uneasy feeling jumping the 575. This was before changing the rear settings, so it may have improved. dropping off of stuff is know problem, but when actually jumping I think the lack of spring in the rear, just made the bike wallow or hesitate taking off. I tried the same jump 3 times and felt out of control all 3 times. Again, I didn't think of adjust ing the shock at the time.


Did I miss anything?

Heckler is next on the "to ride" list

One last thing, When I finish with this review chances are I will be selling one of the frames..................so only time will tell which................ :devil:

 

[Instigator]

I did miss something......climbing. The 575 spins up hills well while seated. It is predictable and the cockpit is roomy enough to let you keep your body in a well balance position. Standing up it seems to loose some traction, not bad just doesn't seem to hook up as well. Again after the heckler ride I will be able to better compare the 2 frames.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

you are 5'11 and on a medium Heckler - hmmmm......I'm 5'9 and was wondering between Medium and Large. I look forward to your next post Ralph!

FYi..

I am 5'10 and I ride a large Heckler with a 90mm stem. My previous bike was a GF Sugar + that is notoriously long.

 

[Deyv]

I would be curious if you rode both bikes with the 5th air.

 

[Instigator]

I would be curious if you rode both bikes with the 5th air.

Hey brother Deyv

I wish I could, but I am actually sending in my 5th air for a warranty tomorrow. Some of the first versions of the shock came with plastic sleaved spherical ball bushings and the plastic could not take the beatings. Warranty is to get them replaced with stainless steal spherical bushings.

 

[jacksonpt]

So what shock is on the 575?

 

[MMcG]

Something new from Titus to get into the mix with the Heckler and 575 etc.

New Motolite:

 

[Instigator]

So what shock is on the 575?

The 575 has the 5th air on it.............up until this morning it did


I am heading into the bike vault to swap parts and get ready for a ride on the heckler.

 

[jacksonpt]

the bike vault

Sweeeet

Some day if I'm lucky enough (and divorced ), I hope to have one of those too.

 

[Instigator]

Sweeeet

Some day if I'm lucky enough (and divorced ), I hope to have one of those too.

Bet you would never guess that I am still single

Check out one of my tool box drawers.............

 

[Mackie]

Something new from Titus to get into the mix with the Heckler and 575 etc.

Hey Mark.....
:redX: :redX: :redX: :redX: :redX: :redX:

Did you mean this?

 

[jacksonpt]

Bet you would never guess that I am still single

Check out one of my tool box drawers.............

ugh...you're killing me man.

I'll trade you my wife for your toolbox.

 

[Instigator]

ugh...you're killing me man.

I'll trade you my wife for your toolbox.

Sorry, but she comes with baggage, so I am going to have to decline

 

[jacksonpt]

hahahhhahahaha

 

[narlus]

damn instigator...

for my $, the green CK stuff is tough to beat. i still wish they made sour apple colored stuff.

 

[MMcG]

Hey Mark.....
:redX: :redX: :redX: :redX: :redX: :redX:

Did you mean this?

Yeah , friggin Mtbr. fascists!

 

[MMcG]

Add these to the list please!

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Add these to the list please!

Is that a 6" & 6" bike or 5" & 5"?

 

[MMcG]

Is that a 6" & 6" bike or 5" & 5"?

Not sure - the Pike is a 140mm fork - so it could be close to a 6 and 6

Devinci also has a bike that is 5 and 5 with a Talas shock and a Minute fork up front I believe - which appears to be a little lighter than the Magma or Guzzler.

I think it is called the Remix 5 now.

 

[Instigator]

Day 3

Today was the heckler day going on the same trails as yesterdays ride with the yeti. Pick of heckler built back up and 5th on it.

Anyway, the heckler has a shorter toptube and I have a shorter stem on it(80mm) This made it harder to move around and find the balance point when climbing. It still climbed very well, but I was crunched up in a ball trying to keep the front end on the ground. Everything else was very close to the handling of the yeti.

Things I notice that were different between the 2:

A) Both are single pivot, the heckler seems to get better traction when climbing, seated and standing.

B) The heckler has feedback thru the pedals when in granny gear, this is far more noticable than the yeti in granny. Both bikes pedal well in the middle ring (pivot is very close to the level of the top of the middle ring).

C) 5th coil is harsher than the 5th air. I adjusted damping and air pressure, but the air shock was much more supple. This also translated into the yeti rear end staying hooked up in bumpy corners, while the heckler bounced around and chattered a bit.

D) The heckler was still easier to bunny hop than the yeti, even with the 5th coil. Granted the heckler has .2" shorter chain stays, but still.

E) Both bikes felt very solid in lateral flex of the rear end.

Conclusions that I found for myself: Adjusting the cockpit is way more important than I thought in the past. These bikes are very close in geometry, but feel completely different and most of it is the stem length.

Heckler, with its shorter cockpit feels more playful, I like it for hopping up on concrete walls, balancing down skinnies, those type of things. I would consider it a great trail bike and a graet full suspension urban bike.

The 575, does not feel as comfortable hopping around, but does feel balance when riding skinny stuff. It is smoother on the trail at any speed. I think the yeti is more single purpose as a trail bike for all day adventures.

It would be good to swap stems, and rear shocks to see how things feel then. This whole review is just my opinion on the seat of my pants testing device, so take from it what you want.

 

[MMcG]

This is great stuff Instigator - keep the review going for a bit more if you can.

I like the comments about the cockpit and top tube lengths etc. etc. It makes me wonder if a longer tt frame (say like 23" or slightly longer) might be the ticket for me for a long 3 to 4 hour plus ride type trail bike.

For example, my Belair is nimble and somewhat flickable and I've discovered it is fun to jump - even though I suck at jumping. But for climbing I think the shorter and tighter cockpit make me scrunch up quite a bit and I have to concentrate on keeping my front end from pulling up if you will.

So which bike is winning out over the other for you so far? Or are you discovering they serve two different yet important purposes in your stable?

 

[narlus]

yeah instigator, this is a solid thread. good work.

interesting point about the stem length, which is something DW stresses all the time. i haven't really swapped stems on my bikes to feel the difference. i think i should.